By to my Solo. Getting KARMA

[Jubalr]

It already has cablecam, adding extra points doesn't require more CPU.

I know it has single point CC, but I hadn't seen a video with non linear gimbal movements. Looks more like the litchi/AP apps for the Phantoms.

 

[DroneyMcDroneface]

and you mr 32 posts of pure wisdom and hours of contribution here just earned your way onto my ignore list

my heart is bleeding

 

[bfdhud]

I'll probably buy a Karma as well assuming it isn't just hype.

 

[erikgraham]

I'm looking forward to the Karma and the GoPro5.

Of course the proof must be in the pudding before making any purchases, but it looks promising. If it lives up to the marketing, the Karma is basically the Solo 2.0. We can expect all the smart shot goodness of the Solo because they just hired the dev at 3DR who was doing all that work.

I think the timing will be perfect for a lot of us. Keep flying Solo for awhile and let GoPro work out the issues (and we know there will be issues). Once you are tired of your Solo, or you've gone through your last spare motor pod, then make the jump. By then the Karma will be stable and @RichWest will have come up with some kind of crazy contraption to correct any jitters that remain in the gimbal.

Regarding multipoint cable cam, etc. the challenge isn't processing power. The calculations are not that difficult for modern silicon. What makes the Solo smart shots superior to the DJI / Litchi combination is the simple fact that Solo has a dedicated processor right on board sending instructions to the FC. On any current DJI platform (from the P4 up through the M600), the ground station software (Litchi or Autopilot) must constantly monitor and send new commands to the drone via the RC. This creates lag. The super great easing in and out on the Solo (a feature not lauded enough!) is basically impossible with lag and hasn't even been implemented (it definetly helps to have a strong direct LOS signal to the drone during smart shots). On the P4 specifically, cable cams are very hard to pull off because the barometer sucks and the damn thing won't consistently hit its mark (in terms of altitude), which borks your framing unless you plan for it. (I've been testing the hell out of all this on a P4, Inspire and even an m600. For now, Solo still best cable cam).

To whoever mentioned wanting a micro 4/3rds the DJI x5 raw is awesome!. The regular non-raw X5 absolutely sucks because it maxes out a 60megabits per second and the h.264 algorithm DJI uses is crap.

Back to the Karma...
Regarding that video at Squaw Valley, lets not overlook that thats at 9,000+ feet ASL. If they are getting 15+ minutes of flight time at 9,000+ feet, in strong winds, then that's bodes well for long flight times.

Karma has a cpu like solo for smart shots, it's got "boat mode", 2 point cable cam (assume more coming), built in (BRIGHT) 5 inch display, super compact, cool backpack, grip for ground shots, high altitude capability. Great stuff. Hope it all actually works.

 

[RichWest]

...@RichWest will have come up with some kind of crazy contraption to correct any jitters that remain in the gimbal.

Crazy good...

Erik you're spot on everything you covered and I always appreciate your perspective. In either case, solid or not, Karma will appeal to a lot of users that will begin their dronie journey.

Solo V2, I see it, but I'll still be flying V1...for a long time.

 

[twitchyzero]

i wouldn't go as far as claiming solo v2
this is like Solo redux, likely to be become a polished yet flexible version of Solo itself, the "drone with full GoPro controls". It's like a gargantuan of a company came and saved Solo (by hiring ex-3dr staff)...while the community continues to build up Solo v1. If it wasn't for Kelly's rapid development on the 3rd party app my Solo gear would've been listed the day Karma was announced.

 

[Jubalr]

I'm looking forward to the Karma and the GoPro5.

Of course the proof must be in the pudding before making any purchases, but it looks promising. If it lives up to the marketing, the Karma is basically the Solo 2.0. We can expect all the smart shot goodness of the Solo because they just hired the dev at 3DR who was doing all that work.

I think the timing will be perfect for a lot of us. Keep flying Solo for awhile and let GoPro work out the issues (and we know there will be issues). Once you are tired of your Solo, or you've gone through your last spare motor pod, then make the jump. By then the Karma will be stable and @RichWest will have come up with some kind of crazy contraption to correct any jitters that remain in the gimbal.

Regarding multipoint cable cam, etc. the challenge isn't processing power. The calculations are not that difficult for modern silicon. What makes the Solo smart shots superior to the DJI / Litchi combination is the simple fact that Solo has a dedicated processor right on board sending instructions to the FC. On any current DJI platform (from the P4 up through the M600), the ground station software (Litchi or Autopilot) must constantly monitor and send new commands to the drone via the RC. This creates lag. The super great easing in and out on the Solo (a feature not lauded enough!) is basically impossible with lag and hasn't even been implemented (it definetly helps to have a strong direct LOS signal to the drone during smart shots). On the P4 specifically, cable cams are very hard to pull off because the barometer sucks and the damn thing won't consistently hit its mark (in terms of altitude), which borks your framing unless you plan for it. (I've been testing the hell out of all this on a P4, Inspire and even an m600. For now, Solo still best cable cam).

To whoever mentioned wanting a micro 4/3rds the DJI x5 raw is awesome!. The regular non-raw X5 absolutely sucks because it maxes out a 60megabits per second and the h.264 algorithm DJI uses is crap.

Back to the Karma...
Regarding that video at Squaw Valley, lets not overlook that thats at 9,000+ feet ASL. If they are getting 15+ minutes of flight time at 9,000+ feet, in strong winds, then that's bodes well for long flight times.

Karma has a cpu like solo for smart shots, it's got "boat mode", 2 point cable cam (assume more coming), built in (BRIGHT) 5 inch display, super compact, cool backpack, grip for ground shots, high altitude capability. Great stuff. Hope it all actually works.

I agree with most of what you said, except I wouldn't call it a Solo 2.0. More of a Solo 1.5. Mainly because it is still a small bird carrying a GoPro. IF it is able to eventually duplicate the shots of Solo and Solex, it's primary advantage will be portability and 5min more flight time when demanded. It's easy to see that the marketing is geared to the action crowd and for that market it should do well, provided it works as claimed.

 

[Brebs]

Well I would have to say that this is an interesting thread, from reading and writing lessons to some sound perspectives. I can only speak from a far away opinion from Australia whereby this user group was one of the reasons, I got my solo (And the 3dr Solo Music Videos)... hahahaha... My humble opinion was that Solo sat on the fence, Dev Framework (yes), "Appletised" version of a drone for end users (YES). Karma as name I guess may even had been named to put salt on this situation, I can only create some nonsense now for that . GoPro seems to have just monopolised on the work of 3dr as apposed to doing a joint venture and have put their product directly pushed towards basic end users of a demographic that will spend, like mid range golfers. And that's great, the more of this, the better it all gets in some ways. For me Solo has been fun flying and pulling apart as I am sure a lot of us do. We all want to build something cool or sensible. The only concern for me is the 3dr strategy and where to from now? After all if we were to count up all the users here and the gear we own, we should perhaps create the next one ourselves :0.

Have a good day everyone and if you can't understand what I have written, just ignore it. I'll be fine

 

[Ryan]

Karma just needs that FPV mod like the Solo

Solo may be hard to beat in high winds considering it is a bit heavier but we'll have to see.

 

[tomnjfl]

I must have watched at least a dozen Karma "hands on" or "preview" videos on YouTube last night and there's a couple very critical pieces of information missing in my opinion.

The first one that came to mind was range. What's the range on the Karma? Given that the controller is using some sort of built in antenna instead of conventional external arms, does that mean we're looking at a much shorter range? Considering that Karma is aimed at the action sports generation, it would make sense that the flier would always want themselves in the frame, thus no need for a long range.

The second thing is that I noticed not one of them really emphasizes GPS enabled flight. In fact, in a couple of the videos you see them literally power on the Karma and take off almost immediately. What kind of magical GPS chip does this thing use? Or to what extent is it relying on GPS? I'd like to know more about that for sure before buying.

And last, they never seem to mention much about the actual hardware in the Karma. i.e. GPS chip, motors, software, etc. Is it all proprietary or are they using familiar software.

 

[Mountain Flyer]

We might have to wait a while before we get useful or unbiased reviews of Karma. Those using it now either got some kind of a promo deal or work for GoPro. Even if they got an early release and absolutely hate the thing they will make it sound good rather than admit they bought a piece of crap. I'm sticking with wait and see. Once they have been released to the masses for a month or two we will get a more accurate idea of what they can really do. Until then we are just guessing.

 

[SARDG]

What's the range on the Karma? Given that the controller is using some sort of built in antenna instead of conventional external arms, does that mean we're looking at a much shorter range? Considering that Karma is aimed at the action sports generation, it would make sense that the flier would always want themselves in the frame, thus no need for a long range.

The second thing is that I noticed not one of them really emphasizes GPS enabled flight. In fact, in a couple of the videos you see them literally power on the Karma and take off almost immediately. What kind of magical GPS chip does this thing use?

Through the magic... make that deception of TV, one can do nearly anything. Many took the 3DR videos of Solo following a boat to mean that Solo had a boat mode. Intentional implication by 3DR?? Dunno!

And Solo can take off without GPS, perhaps Karma as well. GoPro doesn't want to give a future buyer the impression they will have to wait for 10 minutes for a fix - or wait... that's Solo.

As for range - or perhaps anything else in a Karma, there will be after-market hacks to improve the systems. The weekend action-cam folks may not make those hacks so we'll have to see just what happens out of the box.

 

[erikgraham]

... and there's a couple very critical pieces of information missing in my opinion.

The first one that came to mind was range. What's the range on the Karma?

1,000 meteres (.62 miles).
- according to the specs on GoPro website

The second thing is that I noticed not one of them really emphasizes GPS enabled flight. In fact, in a couple of the videos you see them literally power on the Karma and take off almost immediately. What kind of magical GPS chip does this thing use? Or to what extent is it relying on GPS? I'd like to know more about that for sure before buying.

Good point. Let's hope the GPS performance is good. And while they are at it, good barometer (altimeter) performance is just as important (*cough* P4...).

 

[yt lee]

I love how you fanboys are all doubting the Karma when the Solo lacked performance in all three. Range/Battery/GPS and required mods....yet you still bought it.

They regret their purchase decisions because they made such decision on Solo promo video. They tried to tell you not repeating their mistakes.

To me,if portability is your thing, there are plenty of alternative. I think karma is not fitting your bill.

For me, I would modify a 250 fpv racer with pixhawk mini, stick an action camera with electronic stabilizer. The 250 has plenty of power to fly in any conditions.

 

[yt lee]

My impression of karma is a GoPro accessory. So I grade it on curve with action camera and not by the drone standard. I am not a fan of GoPro, and have no need for such accessory. I already have a 4k platform that is more portable than karma and a 720p platform that fit in my shirt pocket, therefore I will take a pass.

 

[EyeWingsuit]

i wonder if every kid/adult etc that gets a karma and then uses some footage in some type of money making project will read sectionals, study taxiing procedures and get their 107? ...just naturally curious

"Every kid?" Probably not. However, "Educate, not Enforce" ends at the FAA on January 1, 2017. The "cowboys" that want to drive cars without a license will for the most part, be caught. It's entirely likely that a couple of select poster-children will be identified and heavily fined. Aviation court is nothing like civil or criminal court. Attend a hearing in your area. It's more like military court.

The general public deserves to feel like people flying drones have gotten at least basic education, just as drivers on the road have a right to expect everyone behind a wheel has basic education.
If I come across anyone flying dangerously, I'll chat with them. If they have an a**hole attitude, I'll turn them in. If I find some guy without a 333 or 107 operating commercially, I'll turn him in too.

Why? Because if no one says anything, they keep going. They keep going, it affects my rights (and yours).

 

[Marich]

Truthfully though, when I decide to get yet another done it'll likely be for the sheer fun factor. The damned things are supposed to be fun first and foremost!
The PowerEgg seems the most interesting to me. Super easy transport, all-in-one functionality, long range (quality 4k video feed is supposedly reliable at 3.5 miles)... and it's just plain the coolest looking thing out there!
Just a big shiny white egg.

 

[bluesgeek]

If I find some guy without a 333 or 107 operating commercially, I'll turn him in too.

Why? Because if no one says anything, they keep going. They keep going, it affects my rights (and yours).

There's also the business competition angle. Any commercial operator in my market can cost me work. If I can eliminate that competition by reporting a non-cert pilot I won't blink.

 

[jibcamera]

"Every kid?" Probably not. However, "Educate, not Enforce" ends at the FAA on January 1, 2017. The "cowboys" that want to drive cars without a license will for the most part, be caught. It's entirely likely that a couple of select poster-children will be identified and heavily fined. Aviation court is nothing like civil or criminal court. Attend a hearing in your area. It's more like military court.

The general public deserves to feel like people flying drones have gotten at least basic education, just as drivers on the road have a right to expect everyone behind a wheel has basic education.
If I come across anyone flying dangerously, I'll chat with them. If they have an a**hole attitude, I'll turn them in. If I find some guy without a 333 or 107 operating commercially, I'll turn him in too.

Why? Because if no one says anything, they keep going. They keep going, it affects my rights (and yours).

While I mostly agree with your sentiments for all the obvious safety and security standpoints, it is a losing proposition from an enforcement angle..kind of like TSA ..a kind of security "theater". For example take 3dr, gopro, or other consumer/prosumer uav companies' user submitted marketing materials. One could argue that there are many similar instances like these where non 333/107 certified pilots are involved in commercial enterprises by providing footage which is then being used by a commercial company. So should we report them too? Where do you draw the line? Is it fair to have some kind of sliding scale? RC aircraft piloting was safe and fine for over half a century without any 333/107 etc, but now everyone I guess needs to be treated like a child because there are too many idiots...maybe an IQ test to purchase would be the ultimate certification...

 

[jibcamera]

There's also the business competition angle. Any commercial operator in my market can cost me work. If I can eliminate that competition by reporting a non-cert pilot I won't blink.

thats the spirit..crush the competition with fascism, nice!