By to my Solo. Getting KARMA

twitchyzero · Sep 19, 2016

i would be really surprised if there's no follow mode. Not like 3DR's version works very well (Kelly's iteration looks promising). Not sure why there's a selfie mode alongside 'reveal'. We will find out soon enough.

but yeah no point getting salty, the Solo was sorta a test mule for the Karma. Regardless of brand, I think every phtography fan should be glad that for an extra $200 on top of Solo we get better portability AND handheld/wearable stabilized shots.

I tried traveling with the Solo and it's too cumbersome. with 3 batteries and a mirrorless camera and 2 lenses the Solo backpack starts getting sore after half a day.

SARDG · Sep 19, 2016

jibcamera said:
i wonder if every kid/adult etc that gets a karma and then uses some footage in some type of money making project will read sectionals, study taxiing procedures and get their 107? ...just naturally curious

pyrate said:
...I see jib is still on his screw the rules tirade

Oh, jib is a poop-disturber...

Of course, I still see the similarities between 107 sectional and some other requirements, and requirements that I have to be versed in paper chart-plotting - to the nth degree for the Coast Guard - and navigating mostly in inland waters. But that's a conversation for another thread...
107 ...who has signed up for test?

13nikos62 · Sep 19, 2016

I won't be diving in first hand. Over the next few months I'm gonna sit back and watch what happens with Karma. It will be interesting hear how consumers find it.

Mountain Flyer · Sep 20, 2016

I find it interesting that drones are now following the phone trend. Everyone seems to think they need the newest thing before they even know it works right or is even better than what they previously had. I'll stick with solo for now and see how many Karma fly away or fall out of the sky before making any such decision. I would be curious to take one apart and see how much of it was ripped off from 3DR. It looks like a solo that had a little more thought put into the gimbal location and was given folding struts. There is also the fact that it is GoPro so judging by the lifespan of their cameras the market life of it will only be about a year before they reveal the replacement version. Do I really want to pay $800 for something that I know will be replaced in a year? I'm not falling for the hype this time and will take a wait and see approach to Karma.

pyrate · Sep 20, 2016

yep, but that only works on a portion of the consumer population.
Some of us will never be found camping outside an Apple store.

For me the question is simple. Does my current equipment get the job done. (yes)
Does the new equipment offer me something my current tools do not provide that I just cant live without (no)

I will give gopro this.
If they meet their ship dates in October they would have executed a fanatastic launch (unlike 3DR who totally hosed theirs)
Their price points were brilliant.

Me and a few others took a pretty deep dive into what was announced yesterday and the questions I have about this new technology are
What is the flight controller in this thing?
Will there be a SDK for developers to extend the functionality
No mention of new smart shots or further development (two point cable)

And in the end it boils down to, it is still a gopro platform.
I already have a pretty keen gopro drone.

My next move is a M43 camera capable drown or better.
That will be worth buying new equipment for me.
The Karma is at best a lateral move

I like going up

Jubalr · Sep 20, 2016

Developers at Ardupilot have said the Karma is using the Px4 controller.

Ron380 · Sep 20, 2016

I'm hoping/trusting the guy in the kayak did NOT try to use the RTH feature with auto-land?

twitchyzero · Sep 20, 2016

if one is happy with Solo..that's great

it's too cumbersome and heavy for hiking/traveling. Options are nice. Might be too early to say but this is basically a refined Solo for the minimalist about half the cost a year later.

If you're more pro and like most of the members here that carry bunch of tools that drag their Solo in a huge pelican case...this probably isn't for you.

If you like keeping things light AND be able to get stabilized ground footage from the same gear (isn't this what Solo owners was emphasizing when it was first launched compared to a fixed camera on DJI? This makes that goal much more streamlined) at the sacrifice of some smartshots...this looks enticing.

Something also tells me because it's backed by GoPro this will work decently out of the box, like it's meant to be, a RTF quad. Solo, on the other hand had a bit of an identity crisis...it wasn't DIY but it wasn't exactly RTF either.

Mountain Flyer said:
. I would be curious to take one apart and see how much of it was ripped off from 3DR. It looks like a solo that had a little more thought put into the gimbal location and was given folding struts. There is also the fact that it is GoPro so judging by the lifespan of their cameras the market life of it will only be about a year before they reveal the replacement version. Do I really want to pay $800 for something that I know will be replaced in a year? I'm not falling for the hype this time and will take a wait and see approach to Karma.

Hero4 got new features 2 years later
Hero3+ had 3 years of support
much longer than 3DR will ever care

if they can get the whole package out by next month (which I believe they can since this has already been delayed), they're already doing better than 3D Robotics.

wait & see approach is smart.

pyrate · Sep 20, 2016

Jubalr said:
Developers at Ardupilot have said the Karma is using the Px4 controller.

The PX4 group were the force behind 3DRs drive to have ardupilot thrown out of Dronecode right?
So even though it was built on Ardupilot it will most likely move in an opposite direction down the road.

Neither good nor bad, I suppose

Ryan35 · Sep 20, 2016

Is 3dr essentially done than that will be sad as hell a great is drone company. Colin Guinn gone. However I would be shocked he would do all that only to not give someone else the reins. I almost paid two grand when this came out and it was going great too Hollywood filmmakers to regular hobbies the using this thing and the other thing what else other than a GoPro can the karma handle a vr camera? A sites scan/ Sony camera? Smart shots? If no than a great GoPro drone unless all of those are confirmed to work with karma I am fine with my solo

LuvMyTJ · Sep 20, 2016

Here is a quick video of a reviewer who was at the release and he was able to fly it...

twitchyzero · Sep 20, 2016

lol the footage looks terrible...worse than Solo gimbal at launch with the vibrations
the omission of Follow-me is surprising...they're hinting at updates but it should've been there day 1.

also The Verge has gone downhill...why let someone with zero quadcopter experience do a quick hands-on?

RichWest · Sep 20, 2016

LuvMyTJ said:
Here is a quick video of a reviewer who was at the release and he was able to fly it...

Seems they have a little work to do, I'll stick with Solo....thanks for posting the vid....

mudman · Sep 20, 2016

one thing I don't see is vibration dampeners...I wonder how they keep jello out of the footage

DroneyMcDroneface · Sep 20, 2016

This review provided almost no useful information...how can you be so quick to judge. Coming from a guy who has never even flow a drone you can't even trust his opinions.

RichWest said:
Seems they have a little work to do, I'll stick with Solo....thanks for posting the vid....

RikMiddle · Sep 20, 2016

Here's a little more useless info from "behind the scene..."

Love the size.. hope it works out, lots to like here-

I even bought ($175) a hand held gimbal for my hero4 black-
oops, curse of the early adopter.. Still, I got mine July 1st 2015. Very happy w/solo.

PdxSteve · Sep 20, 2016

I think the karma will sell quite well to the audience it was made for, which is the action sports crowd. I don't think it will outperform solo as solo was built to be more of a cinematographic drone. Don't forget solo also only had 2 point cable cam when it came out and didn't have all of the smart shots it does now. They expanded it's capabilities a lot during the 1.5 years. They could always improve karma over time as well via software updates, and gopro is pretty good about updates for their cameras so I think it's reasonable to assume the will do so with this new quad, which greatly expands their business model from that of just action-cam.

But the key to understanding what it's capable is still unknown and that is what kind of processing power it has/companion computer. A PX4 by itself doesn't mean that much. It's what's going to drive and send commands to that PX4 that matters more in terms of what it's capable of in terms of processing. It's not hard to fly straight from x1,y1,z1 to x2,y2,z2 (2 single points in 3D space) and doesn't really take any calculations to do so. It's a lot harder to calculate a curve going between those 2 points as you're potentially creating hundreds or thousands of intermediate x,y,z coordinates depending on how far apart those 2 points are for it to fly through each to make the curve in real time, or close to it. Then throw in speed and time control calculations. Then throw in automatic gimbal control and other precision, smoothed calculations based on time. There is a heck of a lot of math going on to do things gracefully.

SARDG · Sep 20, 2016

PdxSteve said:
...It's not hard to fly straight from x1,y1,z1 to x2,y2,z2 (2 single points in 3D space) and doesn't really take any calculations to do so. It's a lot harder to calculate a curve going between those 2 points as you're potentially creating hundreds or thousands of intermediate x,y,z coordinates depending on how far apart those 2 points are for it to fly through each to make the curve in real time, or close to it. Then throw in speed and time control calculations. Then throw in automatic gimbal control and other precision, smoothed calculations based on time. There is a heck of a lot of math going on to do things gracefully.

GP is bragging about their Dronie not being a straight line, but a curve. Just need a few of those back-to-back...

DroneyMcDroneface · Sep 20, 2016

PdxSteve said:
I think the karma will sell quite well to the audience it was made for, which is the action sports crowd. I don't think it will outperform solo as solo was built to be more of a cinematographic drone.

Finally, someone who understands basic market concepts. Everyone here jumped down my throat thinking I was saying that Karma was better than their beloved Solo. Karma, if it performs advertised is a much better drone for my needs. Space is a huge factor for me. I have been traveling 13 months and my VW Bus is already pretty packed. My solo backpack takes up way too much room, and is pain to carry around. I travel in some sketchy countries and if I can avoid bring my $600 phone with me as my display device I'm that much happier. I don't carry a tablet because I have no need for one on the road.

Solo and Karma are two different target markets. I fit into the market who would prefer a Karma over a Solo. You might have a different need and Solo may be better for you. That's the beauty of having options.

The end.

twitchyzero · Sep 20, 2016

the way i see it...GP knows A LOT is at stake. They've been slumping for over a year.

Me thinks they've been learning from 3DR's mistakes.

They know in order to survive it needs to be priced aggressively. With a price like that they're targeting a wide audience. To think for only $300 over Hero4 Black's price you get quadcopter + handheld gimbal + backpack means this is on course to be quite a commercial hit.

I believe Dronie is like Solo's selfie. Reveal is a selfie which curves out/in. I agree, MPCC seems totally do-able. Follow would probably come as a homing tag accessory, since gopro likes selling accessories.

Now let's talk about front-mounted camera gimbal. Supposedly reduces props-in-frame a lot...I'll be skeptical cause that's what 3DR claimed haha. Me thinks the flight characteristics willl be pretty twitchy in manual mode.

because the legs are foldable/short I also feel this will be very difficult to land if the surface is not perfectly even....will probably have to hand catch it a lot.

What about battery life? 14.8 5100mah and i think Karma weighs a good 30-40% less than Solo (1kg, not sure if including battery or not)...I think 20 minute claim might be realistic in mild winds.