3dr please offer a alternative camera

erikgraham · Apr 1, 2016

Oh and by the way, last I heard the p3 and the GoPro camera are essentially the same hardware. Same sensor anyway. The lenses are obviously different, but if you are using something like a Peau 3.97 on your GoPro, then the biggest difference is the way the two cameras process the sensor data. If you shoot both flat (or as close to flat as they will allow), then the results should be similar.

Ian [P13] · Apr 1, 2016

I don't think I've seen @pyrate on the attack before, hard to starboard, load the cannons, FIRE! <BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM>

Ian [P13] · Apr 1, 2016

erikgraham said:
Oh and by the way, last I heard the p3 and the GoPro camera are essentially the same hardware. Same sensor anyway. The lenses are obviously different, but if you are using something like a Peau 3.97 on your GoPro, then the biggest difference is the way the two cameras process the sensor data. If you shoot both flat (or as close to flat as they will allow), then the results should be similar.

That's my understanding too, to all intents and purposes you're dealing with the same spec, albeit you can get DNGs out of the DJI cameras which make for slightly better photos.

Frankly for video I think the GoPro having 2.7K at 50/60fps makes it a better proposition than the Inspire's X3.

erikgraham · Apr 1, 2016

erikgraham said:
I'm confused by that. Protune is fundamentally designed to be color corrected in post. It's basically required. I suppose if you put it in Protune, but went with GoPro Color and an appropriate white balance, then it should look pretty good out of the camera. Maximum quality can only be achieved with Protune, Flat Color, Native WB, low sharpening, PLUS color correction. I don't know all the settings that are possible on the P4, but I thought you could shoot flat. In fact I was under the impression that you can get much closer to a raw with the settings on a p3/p4 than you can with a GoPro. For me, the only true comparison would be to shoot both cameras as flat as possible and compare the color corrected results of both.

Went back and read some prior posts. I missed "straight out of the box" comparison. So just ignore my post above. Basically your saying that if all you do is flip on Protune, (i.e. Leave GoPro color on, etc) then you'll get better footage. Makes sense.

cameraguy · Apr 1, 2016

aaronp said:
pyrate get over yourself!

While the 4k video is good, the gopro is just a 12mp camera and the gopro images are useless for anything other than my clients instagram accounts.

Btw I would be very interested to have come over and have you show me how use "my equipment"

You're right about Pyrte, but not 100% on the go pro.Pyrate hides behind his keyboard and would never say the crap he says to people's faces.

I have owned one since it first went HD, and now use a 4 Black. Using a combination of the GoPro apps and Photoshop and Premiere CC, I have successfully used images in print campaigns, and video in a broadcast situation.

Give those programs a try, you might find you are happier than you think.

Hope this helps

aaronp · Apr 1, 2016

Pyrate talk is cheap, it's time to move out of your mums basement...

Anyway for everyone else, this post was just asking the question for an alternative camera, not after an explanation how awesome you are, I just wanted a better camera.

Btw, just to clarify I've never had any issues with the video quality, in fact that is way better than DJI, however I was just after a higher resolution camera with better optics, however it seems most of you are quite content with the GoPro setup which makes me think it's going to be a while before we see any real changes or improvements.

To everyone else thanks for the useful input.

Anyway best of luck out there.

Ap

Maddog · Apr 2, 2016

Solo Keith said:
The GP is most definitely more vibrant. The P4 looks a little hazy. But both are just fine

I agree the GoPro is more vibrant. The P4 footage is smooth but the color is flat.

cameraguy · Apr 2, 2016

J66666f

erikgraham said:
I'm confused by that. Protune is fundamentally designed to be color corrected in post. It's basically required. I suppose if you put it in Protune, but went with GoPro Color and an appropriate white balance, then it should look pretty good out of the camera. Maximum quality can only be achieved with Protune, Flat Color, Native WB, low sharpening, PLUS color correction. I don't know all the settings that are possible on the P4, but I thought you could shoot flat. In fact I was under the impression that you can get much closer to a raw with the settings on a p3/p4 than you can with a GoPro. For me, the only true comparison would be to shoot both cameras as flat as possible and compare the color corrected results of both.

aaronp said:
Pyrate talk is cheap, it's time to move out of your mums basement...

Anyway for everyone else, this post was just asking the question for an alternative camera, not after an explanation how awesome you are, I just wanted a better camera.

Btw, just to clarify I've never had any issues with the video quality, in fact that is way better than DJI, however I was just after a higher resolution camera with better optics, however it seems most of you are quite content with the GoPro setup which makes me think it's going to be a while before we see any real changes or improvements.

To everyone else thanks for the useful input.

Anyway best of luck out there.

Ap

Check out a camera called an Olympus Air 01. I believe it is the basic design of the camera that DJI uses on the Aspire. The camera is a micro 4/3rds, and with a 14mm pancake lens, it's the smallest good quality camera I know. A gimbal would need to be designed - Kickstarter Anyone?, but this camera has wifi and everything.

Attention 3DR - good commercial and enterprise potential!

pete · Apr 2, 2016

aaronp said:
Pyrate talk is cheap, it's time to move out of your mums basement...

Anyway for everyone else, this post was just asking the question for an alternative camera, not after an explanation how awesome you are, I just wanted a better camera.

Btw, just to clarify I've never had any issues with the video quality, in fact that is way better than DJI, however I was just after a higher resolution camera with better optics, however it seems most of you are quite content with the GoPro setup which makes me think it's going to be a while before we see any real changes or improvements.

To everyone else thanks for the useful input.

Anyway best of luck out there.

Ap

in this price range and drone category you won't find better option (at the moment) than GoPro camera (or camera with similar specs to GoPro).

if you want something better from DJI you need to move up to Inspire with Zenmouse X5, that Gimbal + camera alone is $3800 in Australia (not sure about the pricing in US), that's without the drone.

I don't recommend if this is your first drone (Inspire + Zenmouse X5 is almost 8 lb) and whether you would be able to get same cinematic shots as with Solo, that's another question, probably not.

the Sony camera for Solo that's being rumoured is expected to have APS-C sensor, the sort of quality sensor that you get on Sony A7 (not same size sensor but same characteristics), APS-C sensor is larger then the 4/3 on Zenmouse X5 and better quality anyway (my opinion), the glass you should be able to put on this camera is also better than the options for X5 :
Sony E 20 mm F2.8
Sony E 16 mm F2.8

So it's looking very likely that our little Solo is going to be soon able to match (or improve on) Inspire with its best camera/glass.

Until then we have to use the best available tool we have access to - GoPro, @pyrate wasn't that far out pointing out to spend some time and learn how to get as much as you can out of the GoPro.

I would also love to have the option of Sony with gimbal, but I'm quite happy with GoPro at the moment. You would be amazed what you can get out of it. If you have after market lens, and now with burst mode and adjustable EV in the Solo App you can do things like taking a burst of photos while Solo is hovering in a given spot, change the EV to -2 , another burst, EV to +2 and another burst and then just use median stacking in Photoshop with auto-align and you won't believe that the outcome was even possible with 1/2.3" sensor camera.

edit : besides if it's the photography you are after (since you have already accepted that video out of GoPro is quite decent), there is nothing stopping you from mounting some decent camera on Solo. I have flown with Sony RX100M3 and with Fuji X100T, no gimbal obviously, but it's doable on fixed mount, just little bit of practice to judge correctly in what angle to mount the camera (depending on your objectives)

timzee · Apr 2, 2016

pete said:
...you can do things like taking a burst of photos while Solo is hovering in a given spot, change the EV to -2 , another burst, EV to +2 and another burst and then just use median stacking in Photoshop with auto-align and you won't believe that the outcome was even possible with 1/2.3" sensor camera.

Nice tip-- I'll have to give that a try.

Maddog · Apr 2, 2016

pyrate said:
learn to use your equipment. same sensor in both cameras for the most part
we all want to fly a DSLR but if you want that, you are going to need to spend a lot more money
a LOT

In many ways, Gopro is superior to the Yuneec and DJI cameras. But you have to know how to harness it. If you just want to push record and become a pro, good luck with that

I've had my GoPro for 9 months and I'm still learning new things about it. It's taken a lot of experimentation to see what it can do.

aaronp · Apr 3, 2016

Pete thanks for the info!

I've actually got a Sony rx100mk3 so I'm pretty keen to find out how you mounted it and used it

pete · Apr 3, 2016

aaronp said:
Pete thanks for the info!

I've actually got a Sony rx100mk3 so I'm pretty keen to find out how you mounted it and used it

here is picture how it's mounted :
Flying with Sony RX100M3, shutter release anyone ?

it's the original gopro mount, removed the gopro frame and replaced with adapter for compact camera (with tripod thread) like this one :
Micro HD Mount for GoPro Accessories | Sealife Cameras
or this one :
[$3.99] JUSTONE 1/4" Camera Tripod Mount Adapter for Gopro Series and Others

it's bit wobbly because my cameras are heavier than gopro, just a temporary solution until I find more solid mount that gives me 10-20 deg tilt for landscape pictures, in the meantime I have to use shutter speed of at least 1/500 to avoid blurred photos.

I have not found solution for remote shutter release, so on Fuji X100T I use built-in intervalometer function to take photo every few seconds, for Sony RX100M3 I got timelapse app from PlayMemories app store, the timelapse app can be configured to take individual photos every few senconds, but in this mode unfortunately it's unable to take RAW photos, only JPGs

frases · Apr 3, 2016

Another option to leverage your current GoPro investment is the Ribcage Air modkit that allows you to swap lenses using a lightweight M12 mount:
DRONES | BACK-BONE

Here's a comparison of stock gopro footage with their $99 4.4mm M12 lens:

From the sample footage, the clarity of the objects in the video seem much improved over the stock.

Here's a second vid linked off of the Ribcage buy page (4.4mm 4K Low Distortion M12 | BACK-BONE) for the 4.4mm M12 lens they sell:

Satmandanny · Apr 3, 2016

You are correct. Set both flat and take a look at the aberrations, anomalies and saturation. I have had four Solo. All had hardware and firmware operational issues. One even lost an ESC in a motor. Oh, yes, don't even get started on the cheapo motors. They piece milled this contraption with the horrible delay on the clunky 2 axis over priced gimbal. So after allowing 3DR more than adiquate time to show their craft work, I'm far from impressed. Only until DJI came out with the P4 did they have anything to compete with the 3DR Novelty. I now have a brand new P4 and my world of aerial videography at great distances just took a giant leap forward. Its true!!! Operational experience is different but sure fly's smooth, dependable and the video is very very good. The interactive operations and quality are quite noticeably different. More part of the design. But most of all. But the biggest and most important issue, P4 still has Phone Support. 3D Robotics no longer can financially support the customer over the phone. You can Chat or Email but competitive customer support is no more. Thus, the writing is on the wall for 3DR so I believe this conversation for the most part, will prove to be moot in the near future. Also the reason there is so much hostility when discussing other dependable experienced platforms has nothing to do with being An Instant Hollywood Videographer or Producer but rather a consumer requiring customer support and 3DR deciding to no longer offer it is what will do 3DR in. That and their Flagship Solo that's has turned out to be an expensive "with prices quickly falling" Toy, nothing more!
I guess we'll see what happens in TJ Mexico and at their return center just north of the border on the I-905 down by Brown Field in San Diego. I hope 3DR are able to survive. Their product was cool. Like I said, a Neat Novelty Toy, but sadly does not compete at real-time in seamless functionality, quatily and customer support.

pete · Apr 3, 2016

Satmandanny said:
I have had four Solo. All had hardware and firmware operational issues. One even lost an ESC in a motor. Oh, yes, don't even get started on the cheapo motors. They piece milled this contraption with the horrible delay on the clunky 2 axis over priced gimbal. So after allowing 3DR more than adiquate time to show their craft work, I'm far from impressed. Only until DJI came out with the P4 did they have anything to compete with the 3DR Novelty. I now have a brand new P4 and my world of aerial videography at great distances just took a giant leap forward. Its true!!! Operational experience is different but sure fly's smooth, dependable and the video is very very good. The interactive operations and quality are quite noticeably different. More part of the design. But most of all. But the biggest and most important issue, P4 still has Phone Support. 3D Robotics no longer can financially support the customer over the phone. You can Chat or Email but competitive customer support is no more. Thus, the writing is on the wall for 3DR so I believe this conversation for the most part, will prove to be moot in the near future. Also the reason there is so much hostility when discussing other dependable experienced platforms has nothing to do with being An Instant Hollywood Videographer or Producer but rather a consumer requiring customer support and 3DR deciding to no longer offer it is what will do 3DR in. That and their Flagship Solo that's has turned out to be an expensive "with prices quickly falling" Toy, nothing more!
I guess we'll see what happens in TJ Mexico and at their return center just north of the border on the I-905 down by Brown Field in San Diego. I hope 3DR are able to survive. Their product was cool. Like I said, a Neat Novelty Toy, but sadly does not compete at real-time in seamless functionality, quatily and customer support.

so you have had 4 Solos and now you have new P4 and are happy with it, good for you, it's a perfect match.

you joined this forum in July last year, made 2 posts in 9 months and now that you got P4 you come back and make 5 troll-posts (so far) in a single day.

ok you made your point so I think it's time for you to move over to the whitepilots forum.

and don't forget to start trolling over there when you receive Yuneec for Xmas

EyeWingsuit · Apr 3, 2016

erikgraham said:
Oh and by the way, last I heard the p3 and the GoPro camera are essentially the same hardware. Same sensor anyway. The lenses are obviously different, but if you are using something like a Peau 3.97 on your GoPro, then the biggest difference is the way the two cameras process the sensor data. If you shoot both flat (or as close to flat as they will allow), then the results should be similar.

Both cameras use the same imager (Ambarella A9, which is owned by GoPro). Glass is different (I believe DJI is all Poly, GoPro is a blend of Poly and glass (Gpppg) and GoPro uses Sony sensor. I *believe* DJI is using the Samsung sensor.

Both Yugo and Maserati can share wheels and fuel. The comparison ends there.

-Glass
-Sensor
-Imager
-DSP
-Codec
-Bitrate

All create the "biggest difference." It would be very surprising if the two were at any level similar. GoPro has by far a superior encoder/codec. Sony has the best codec of all, but they don't license that codec in the POV world. Ambarella A9 offers many, many configurations, so tuning is quite important prior to the signal being compressed at whatever bitrate and codec has been determined.
RAW is merely a descriptor. Just because a file is in RAW doesn't mean squat if it isn't processed properly prior to encoding.

cameraguy · Apr 3, 2016

Satmandanny said:
You are correct. Set both flat and take a look at the aberrations, anomalies and saturation. I have had four Solo. All had hardware and firmware operational issues. One even lost an ESC in a motor. Oh, yes, don't even get started on the cheapo motors. They piece milled this contraption with the horrible delay on the clunky 2 axis over priced gimbal. So after allowing 3DR more than adiquate time to show their craft work, I'm far from impressed. Only until DJI came out with the P4 did they have anything to compete with the 3DR Novelty. I now have a brand new P4 and my world of aerial videography at great distances just took a giant leap forward. Its true!!! Operational experience is different but sure fly's smooth, dependable and the video is very very good. The interactive operations and quality are quite noticeably different. More part of the design. But most of all. But the biggest and most important issue, P4 still has Phone Support. 3D Robotics no longer can financially support the customer over the phone. You can Chat or Email but competitive customer support is no more. Thus, the writing is on the wall for 3DR so I believe this conversation for the most part, will prove to be moot in the near future. Also the reason there is so much hostility when discussing other dependable experienced platforms has nothing to do with being An Instant Hollywood Videographer or Producer but rather a consumer requiring customer support and 3DR deciding to no longer offer it is what will do 3DR in. That and their Flagship Solo that's has turned out to be an expensive "with prices quickly falling" Toy, nothing more!
I guess we'll see what happens in TJ Mexico and at their return center just north of the border on the I-905 down by Brown Field in San Diego. I hope 3DR are able to survive. Their product was cool. Like I said, a Neat Novelty Toy, but sadly does not compete at real-time in seamless functionality, quatily and customer support.

When you're phantom flies away with no excuse, and you swear on your mothers grave you did nothing wrong, and support won't help...."well you can send us the phantom for analysis" but I told you it flew away..... Come back and see us

EyeWingsuit · Apr 3, 2016

aaronp said:
Pyrate talk is cheap, it's time to move out of your mums basement...

Anyway for everyone else, this post was just asking the question for an alternative camera, not after an explanation how awesome you are, I just wanted a better camera.

Btw, just to clarify I've never had any issues with the video quality, in fact that is way better than DJI, however I was just after a higher resolution camera with better optics, however it seems most of you are quite content with the GoPro setup which makes me think it's going to be a while before we see any real changes or improvements.

To everyone else thanks for the useful input.

Anyway best of luck out there.

Ap

OK, now *I'm* confused. DJI doesn't offer a higher resolution/better optic camera than a GoPro, particularly when you view options such as RageCam, Peau, etc. as variations on the GoPro theme. If you want to fly a Matrix or S-series DJI, sure...you can launch a much weightier camera with larger imagers, faster lenses, better codecs. BTW, like RAW; DNG doesn't mean squat without the proper front end processing. I can provide you a 49.99 camera that exports/outputs DNG.

Gary Burch · Apr 3, 2016

I agree with your analysis Mr. GRAHAM. SOME people do not know how to color correct there video. Maybe you should explain how to color correct in posting, and with what programs. All cameras in my opinion need color correcting and the editing of the video allows us to create.