Firmware and apps

[User Name]

sigh
3DR handicapping yet another feature...kicking us while we're down.

Given the exodus of employees, I suspect it's more that they just tried to slap together what was working, disable what wasn't, and release one last update.

Don't get me wrong, it reflects very poorly on them. But I choose to look at it like this - Solo does more today than it did the day I bought it. MPCC, Zip Line, Pano are all pretty great features added after purchase. I don't feel kicked, even if Rewind's functionality is a little shoddy.

 

[fpvsteve]

Rewind was a part of failsafe in v2.3 where solo would Rewind before going to RTL. This proved too complicated for alot of users and was removed from RTL.

So in 2.4.0, Rewind works by holding pause. Solo will fly in the reverse on the path that it took for the distance you set in settings. If you release pause before the rewind is complete, Solo will switch to Fly. I've tested rewind successfully on ios and android.

A current bug is that you cannot disable rewind. If you set it to disable or set the distance to zero, holding pause will still trigger rewind.

Frank described it correct.
When 3DR originally introduced rewind as part of failsafe in addition to the pause button initiated rewind in one of the very early 2.4 beta versions we had a long debate in the beta group and came to consent that such behaviour would be rather confusing. Therefore it was disabled in the 2.4 release onwards. So you need to blame the beta testers for this one, not 3DR

If you set the distance for zero, but it still rewinds, how far does it go???

About 3-5 meters as I tested with the Android 2.4 app.

 

[jibcamera]

So if i lose signal and an automatic RTL is initiated, it wont rewind?...that sucks if going around a tall tower/antenna..….i have a tower near me that is over the limit of RTL highest altitude setting...i am afraid to orbit it...i really want my money back from 3dr, this is BS

 

[twitchyzero]

can you physical walk around the tower with the solo so there's less chance of signal loss? not an excuse for 3dr to slack but that's your best option right now.

 

[Pedals2Paddles]

Frank described it correct.
When 3DR originally introduced rewind as part of failsafe in addition to the pause button initiated rewind in one of the very early 2.4 beta versions we had a long debate in the beta group and came to consent that such behaviour would be rather confusing. Therefore it was disabled in the 2.4 release onwards. So you need to blame the beta testers for this one, not 3DR

I don't blame you guys (beta testers) at all. You were just the first group that had to fly without clear detailed instructions or compatible applications. If the failsafe behavior was clearly documented and had clear and intuitive application controls, I'd be willing to bet good money it wouldn't have been a problem for anyone. And we would have the feature in production today. And 3DR wouldn't be lying in all their advertising.

 

[User Name]

And we would have the feature in production today. And 3DR wouldn't be lying in all their advertising.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the feature is in production today, isn't it? Long press pause and it rewinds the distance set in the app. The only bugs are it ignores the app setting to disable it, and a distance setting of 0 still rewinds ~60 feet. I haven't updated the original post yet, but that's what I gather from the replies.

As for lying, here's what the press release says:

"Rewind

With the press of a button, Solo will retrace its exact path for the last 60 feet of your flight (this distance will be user-definable in the app) to ensure it avoids obstacles on its way back home."

It doesn't claim it to be part of any failsafe routine, so I don't see the lie.

 

[Pedals2Paddles]

In production... as a failsafe, which is what it was hyped up and billed as. Their website advertises it differently than that too, describing it as a function of RTH. In fact, it's probably described several different ways in several different places.

 

[User Name]

In production... as a failsafe, which is what it was hyped up and billed as. Their website advertises it differently than that too, describing it as a function of RTH. In fact, it's probably described several different ways in several different places.

Again, others can correct me if I'm wrong, but even at NAB 2016, which is when Rewind was publically announced, it was never described as a part of failsafe. Here's an article from a 3rd party posted the day after NAB which describes it as above - push a button and it rewinds: 3DR Makes Solo Drone Smarter with Software | PDNPulse

There's any number of articles describing it exactly the same way. In fact, a Google search could find no mention of Rewind as part of failsafe outside this forum, where it was discussed while still being in beta. It appears it was keyed to the Home button as opposed to Pause, and initially part of failsafe *during beta*. If you can find it officially described otherwise, I'd be interested to see that.

You keep saying it's disabled in firmware, which from what others are saying, it's not, and the removal of it as part of failsafe was due to a long discussion in the beta process where it was decided the Home button should be reserved for the sole purpose of RTL, which I would agree.

Look, I'm all for taking them to task for actual issues - Return to Me on Android is dangerous and should be fixed. Selfie should be fixed. But we shouldn't criticize for our own speculation or for a change in behavior of a feature between beta testing and official announcement. As it was officially announced, it seem to work exactly as such - press a button and it'll rewind.

Even if it was mentioned officially as a failsafe, I still think it's better that it was removed as the behavior of the combination of rewind for a distance then RTL would be difficult to accurately predict, and the cases where that might be helpful are very specific and obscure - flying both behind an obstruction AND under and overhead obstruction, or behind an obstruction that happens to be taller than the RTL altitude. Outside those two scenarios, the normal RTL should work perfectly, and the degree to which a combined Rewind and RTL complicates the failsafe, to me, doesn't justify the ability to handle two very specific and rare scenarios.


*edited 6:40am*

 

[Pedals2Paddles]

For an hour long webinar, Colin described it as being part of the failsafe for exactly those reasons. Perhaps I never noticed the wording change to it being a button push only some time between that and the firmware update that dumped it. 3DR's sales and advertising material today describes it as part of the RTH, which it isn't. And they show it activating when the solo is behind a structure, exactly as pictured when billed as a failsafe, which is misleading and probably why I didn't notice the change in wording at some point. Keep the same image of it being a failsafe, and change the wording to be something else.

I was very excited about that being part of the failsafe. I can't think of a single use case for myself where I wouldn't want it. The standard RTH already requires some user input to get right. You have to set the altitude. Albeit lots of people blow that off, then act surprised when it drives into a tree....

 

[User Name]

3DR's sales and advertising material today describes it as part of the RTH

Can you link to said materials? I'm not disputing, I just honestly can't find them.

I was very excited about that being part of the failsafe.

I get being excited about an upcoming feature only to be disappointed when it ends up not exactly as initially imagined. I've had that happen many, many times in software packages. But in this case, from what others have said, the removal of it as part of RTL was because of a consensus among the beta testers that it's functionality in that context was confusing and unpredictable. People often envision something as being perfect, only to see the faults when seeing it in practice. That's what beta testers are there to discover, you have to put some faith in their decision.

And I keep saying this, these are features that were added *after* we purchased the product. We all wanted Solo to succeed and are concerned about the longevity of our investment given it's commercial failure... but people still see fit to relentlessly criticize it because one of several new features that were added well over a year after it's release has changed slightly between testing and official release. It's like we torpedo the product's chances of success by publically blasting it, and then bemoan the fact that it's failed in the marketplace. I just don't get it.

Of the features that were added *after* I bought it - MPCC, Pano, Zipline, RTM (admittedly broken on Android, hopefully it'll be fixed), and now Rewind... that Rewind isn't part of failsafe is pretty minor. I don't know. You give people more and more and instead of looking at how much more they got, they complain about the one minor thing that they didn't.

 

[Solo Keith]

Can you link to said materials? I'm not disputing, I just honestly can't find them.



I get being excited about an upcoming feature only to be disappointed when it ends up not exactly as initially imagined. I've had that happen many, many times in software packages. But in this case, from what others have said, the removal of it as part of RTL was because of a consensus among the beta testers that it's functionality in that context was confusing and unpredictable. People often envision something as being perfect, only to see the faults when seeing it in practice. That's what beta testers are there to discover, you have to put some faith in their decision.

And I keep saying this, these are features that were added *after* we purchased the product. We all wanted Solo to succeed and are concerned about the longevity of our investment given it's commercial failure... but people still see fit to relentlessly criticize it because one of several new features that were added well over a year after it's release has changed slightly between testing and official release. It's like we torpedo the product's chances of success by publically blasting it, and then bemoan the fact that it's failed in the marketplace. I just don't get it.

Of the features that were added *after* I bought it - MPCC, Pano, Zipline, RTM (admittedly broken on Android, hopefully it'll be fixed), and now Rewind... that Rewind isn't part of failsafe is pretty minor. I don't know. You give people more and more and instead of looking at how much more they got, they complain about the one minor thing that they didn't.

It's just in some peoples DNA to complain & hope we will jump on the wagon w/them to hold their hand during the ride

 

[Pedals2Paddles]

Can you link to said materials? I'm not disputing, I just honestly can't find them.

3DR's main solo page still lists it as an RTH function. Using exactly the same graphics used to illustrated a loss of signal failsafe.

I get being excited about an upcoming feature only to be disappointed when it ends up not exactly as initially imagined. I've had that happen many, many times in software packages. But in this case, from what others have said, the removal of it as part of RTL was because of a consensus among the beta testers that it's functionality in that context was confusing and unpredictable. People often envision something as being perfect, only to see the faults when seeing it in practice. That's what beta testers are there to discover, you have to put some faith in their decision.

Clearly I didn't see where or when the wording was changed such that it was no longer a failsafe. Given all the graphics were the same, and it was still described as a feature of RTH, I don't think it was huge stretch to believe it was still part of the failsafe action. You're probably right in that I was excited to have the feature and not looking too hard for something that was changed. So I'm perfectly willing to concede that rewind as a failsafe isn't broken. It is intentionally removed and just no longer what they said it would be. Very disappointing, not very surprising.

Rewind on/off an rewind distance is clearly broken. And selfie remains broken (firmware, as it effects iOS and Android). And RTM is broken on Android. The latter being a dangerous bug that could really hurt someone.

 

[User Name]

3DR's main solo page still lists it as an RTH function. Using exactly the same graphics used to illustrated a loss of signal failsafe..

From the page: Push the home button, and Solo can rewind your flight path to avoid obstacles while it returns home and lands automatically.

Ok, I'll concede that does make it sound part of the RTL procedure, and the wording should be changed. But I still put faith that the beta testers found it confusing and considered it better as a separate function, even if it reduces the functionality of RTL in a few select scenarios.

Rewind on/off an rewind distance is clearly broken. And selfie remains broken (firmware, as it effects iOS and Android). And RTM is broken on Android. The latter being a dangerous bug that could really hurt someone.

I'm in total agreement there - if Selfie is broken and should be fixed, and RTM on Android does look pretty obviously broken, highly dangerous, and absolutely should be fixed. This one is serious enough that they should fix it regardless of their culling of the development department.

 

[franknitty69]

i beta tested it when it was a part of RTL and i didn't like it. in my opinion, RTL should be just that RTL. when you start complicating failsafes you risk flight safety.

so boys and girls before you take off. look around. see that tree? set your RTL altitude higher than that tree. if you RTL into that tree, it is 100% your fault.

 

[PdxSteve]

Yep, usually you press B and nothing happens, but it's actually silently switched back to FLY mode. But the app is still in smart shot mode saying to press B. So you hit B again and it goes to whatever mode the B button is assigned to. Which can be a very exciting experience if you have it set to stabilize or acro....

I'm not sure why, but I never had this issue and I set up and flew plenty of MPCC on 2.3. B always finalized the sequence, and I do have my B button mapped to another fly mode as well.

 

[Pedals2Paddles]

I went 2 months without it happening as well. Then it happened every single time for 3 days in a row. One day, I burned through 3 batteries and didn't get a single shot I wanted. It was nothing but GPS not locking, video not starting, solo not connecting to the controller, MPCC bombing out. 3 batteries and 2 hours out in the 100 degree sun, and I got about 5 minutes of video, which was useless. I was FURIOUS. This was while still on 2.3. I still get the random video and link issues. Pretty much every other time I go out, some bullshit ends up wasting 20% of my battery life. And my crooked gimbal problem makes every photo require post production cropping, and makes me unable to use pano. I'm not a very happy camper right now...

 

[fpvsteve]

i beta tested it when it was a part of RTL and i didn't like it. in my opinion, RTL should be just that RTL. when you start complicating failsafes you risk flight safety.

so boys and girls before you take off. look around. see that tree? set your RTL altitude higher than that tree. if you RTL into that tree, it is 100% your fault.

Well said Frank.
Guys you had all the opportunity to participate in Beta, test it and then raise your voice.
Rewind in RTH sounds nice in theory, in reality it is simply confusing.

 

[PdxSteve]

It's only really confusing when the behavior keeps changing. If you know it's going to do it whenever it RTHs then you can plan for it as easily as making sure to bump up your RTH height to whatever local obstacles you are trying to avoid. Both require being aware of your surroundings and planning the shot, and in just as many steps.

 

[User Name]

It's only really confusing when the behavior keeps changing.

But wouldn't that essentially happen every time with a Rewind and then RTL after the set distance, meaning each time it goes into failsafe, you'd have to estimate where the set distance for Rewind would run out, at which time it'd climb to RTL altitude and return from there. If I happen to fly under some trees, I'd have to worry that Rewind would take me there before climbing up into the branches. With straight RTL, I always know exactly where it'll climb from - wherever Solo is at that moment.

Anyway, the issue seems moot at this point. Some are upset that it was removed from RTL, some are happy, but everyone should acknowledge/accept that it wasn't 3DR failing to deliver, it was the informed choice of the testers.

 

[jibcamera]

i beta tested it when it was a part of RTL and i didn't like it. in my opinion, RTL should be just that RTL. when you start complicating failsafes you risk flight safety.

so boys and girls before you take off. look around. see that tree? set your RTL altitude higher than that tree. if you RTL into that tree, it is 100% your fault.

but what if that tree is actually a 251ft tall tower? Rewind during loss of signal RTL would have saved me...