Dedicated 3rd Party Lens Discussion (Examples Updated)

Pedals2Paddles · Mar 21, 2016

Does changing the lens information in the firmware of the camera actually have a functional effect on anything? If so, what?

franknitty69 · Mar 21, 2016

FYI, the double IR-Cut filter mod works with the 5.4mm and the 4.4/4.35mm lenses because of the ability to place the 2nd IR Cuter filter in front of the front element. with the 3.8 or 3.97 lenses, because of the diameter and protrusion of the front element its simply not possible. and it is not effective when placed at the rear of the lens say with a supermount or rib-cage air.

so at this time, with the 3.8mm or 3.97mm lenses, if you want to cure pink eye, send your camera to peau or live it. i currently live with it.

franknitty69 · Mar 21, 2016

Pedals2Paddles said:
Does changing the lens information in the firmware of the camera actually have a functional effect on anything? If so, what?

disabling the lens profile does not affect any functionality of the gopro at all. its simply a configuration setting. if gopro wanted to, they could make it a setting in the gopro app or on the camera it self.

Pedals2Paddles · Mar 21, 2016

But what affect does it have? It must do something, or why would the code be there and people change it? Is it just going to the metadata of the images?

pyrate · Mar 21, 2016

my understanding is it tells the gopro image processor how to deal with color distortion from the fish eye lens
that is why you don't see the pink on a stock lens.
when you remove the lens, but not the profile, it corrects the other way and shifts the corners pink

pyrate · Mar 21, 2016

I have to go back and look, is there a lens profile removal for the 3 Black?
I may try that, still have my 4.4 lens or may may grab a 3.8 for it. If I can get the lens profile off the 3 Black
Mine will not fit the water proof case though. the round part of the 3.97 definitely rubs the front of the housing

franknitty69 · Mar 21, 2016

Pedals2Paddles said:
But what affect does it have? It must do something, or why would the code be there and people change it? Is it just going to the metadata of the images?

all wide angle lenses have vignetting and chromatic aberration in the corners. on the gopro the vignetting has a blue/green tint. the lens profile counteracts the blue/green tint by altering the white balance towards pink, negating the blue/green vignette (pink is opposite blue/green).

when you change the lens to one that isn't as wide, the blue/green vignette is gone, but the gopro doesn't know so it still adjusts the wb to pink...voila...pink eye. the lens profile removal disables this setting so no more pink.

pete · Mar 21, 2016

pyrate said:
we will just have to agree to disagree on that comparison
the only head to head would be to use same camera same settings same conditions

SteveReno said:
for good comparisons need to be done on the same unit. I'm guessing, but i think there are more GPH4's here then H3's?

same camera settings yes, same conditions yes, same camera no - I had the lens with best results in my worst camera.
but I get your point now, I honestly didn't think of a possibility that the 3.80mm lens would be in any way advantaged by putting it in inferior camera, I think quite the opposite, I simply do not believe that moving that lens to superior camera will make things worse for it, but of course there is a possibility.

I just cannot show at the moment that moving 3.80mm to GP4 will not make the things worse, to do that I would lose my 30-day warranty on the GP4/3.97mm combo and I think I may need to use that warranty now so at the moment I'm holding back and not replacing 3.97 with 3.80 in the GP4 until they advise me with some resolution.

SteveReno said:
But from what you posted so far, I suspect that the 3.80mm & the Peau's 3.97mm will be very close in clarity?

Thanks Steve, I suspect a good sample of 3.97 and good sample of 3.80 will be very close in clarity. These lenses are nearly identical, they are identical in size, identical in build (8 glass optics) and both are 16MP, f/2.8 and I believe they are made by the same company.
If anything 3.80 is closer to the stock lens so it may be marginally less affected by the pink cast in corners.

That's the theory.

At the moment I cannot show that, because I'm coming to a conclusion and others here as well that I received a bad sample of 3.97 and as such any comparison between my sample of 3.80 (good) and my sample of 3.97 (probably bad) would not be fair. As it is even stock lens at medium FOV performs marginally better than my sample of 3.97 whereas it's been previously shown or discussed on this forum that 3.97 should be marginally better than stock lens at medium FOV.
I posted comparison between stock lens (medium FOV) and my sample of 3.97 in post #289 above, both test were on GP4 so we don't need to have a further discussion on that (whether the conditions were same or not), both cameras used in that test was GP4 black.

As far as 3.80 all I can tell is that 3.80 on my GP3+ is substantially better than stock lens in the very same GP3+

btw. I'm not having a go at Peau if that was the feeling, in all the posts with lens comparison samples I refrained from using the company name and all comparison videos posted on Youtube I did not use the name of the company, I simply call it 3.97 so that Youtube and internet trollers cannot easily search for the name that would lead them to these post.
They are working on the issue with me, I'm sending them raw files from the camera that they requested in order to decide whether or not I received a bad sample of this lens, or whether I need to do some re-focusing.

I understand both sides of this, some people may be willing to justify to have a lens installed by them and pay the premium for that with the benefit of getting the profile removed, others may not be willing to go that route and for those it may be just great that alternative lens is available at lower cost with similar (if not better) characteristics of the lens.

chimi · Mar 22, 2016

Is this 3.80 available in europe somehow? As I have problems getting the 3.97 with or without service in germany...

pete · Mar 22, 2016

pyrate said:
I have to go back and look, is there a lens profile removal for the 3 Black?
I may try that, still have my 4.4 lens or may may grab a 3.8 for it. If I can get the lens profile off the 3 Black

the other day I asked a question (on another thread) whether anyone tried to play with the vignette control that's one of the available commands in ambshell (Ambarella shell).
you can execute it through the autoexec.ash (on cameras up to GP3+) in exactly same way as all the other available hacks that were already discussed (like taking 3 bracketed photos with different values of EV to be able to do HDR image, or various long exposure hacks,...).

there are no examples anywhere of the vignette control hack, but this command is available on the A7 chip firmware

-vnc

You can see it on the list of available commands for example here :
[R&D] A7 R&D thread

Ambarella does not make A7 chip just for the GoPro but for all kind of different action cameras, dashcams and so on and as such I don't believe there would be just a simple ON/OFF switch because that would not work for all the different lenses on all the different cameras that run this firmware.

It's difficult to find exact specification on how to use this command but over here it's listed with all the required parameters :
GoPro HD Hero 1080 [pixel::doc WIKI]

the above site is showing the older format for the HD Hero where test commands used to have a format "t img -vnc" but on the newer models this was replaced with "t ia2 -vnc"

example on how to use it, or what each parameter does is hard to find anywhere and only Ambarella company knows but the format is like this :

t ia2 -vnc [mode] [enable] [tile] [pattern]

where :
mode = [v|s], v: video mode s: still mode
enable = 0:disable, 1:enable
tile = 0:64Hx64V, 1:64Hx128V, 2:128Hx64V, 3:128Hx128V
pattern = [0..3], hard-coded pattern

so then in the autoexec.ash file one could simply run it as :

t ia2 -vnc v 0 0 0
or
t ia2 -vnc v 1 3 2

I mean there are not that many combination to try all of them.
It's even hard to tell what the disable/enable is supposed to do (disabling vignetting or disabling compensation for vignetting)

"tile" I could understand, that might be a small block of pixels and "pattern" would be just a shape consisting of several blocks (tiles) in each corner of the image.

this sort of implementation would make sense, it would give many different camera manufacturers (using the Ambarella chip) flexibility to adjust the lens vignetting as needed, rather than a simple ON/OFF switch.

Of course I have no idea if this would work for the pink corners on GoPro, but one can only try. I don't know whether this vignette control affects just the vignetting amount or whether it affects the colour information as well.

I would be happy to try this on my GP3+ but I'm really having hard time to even find a photo (or video) with that famous pink cast, I don't seem to be able to pin-point it on any of my photos from the GP3+ .

There's been a lot of talk about the pink corners, can somebody with this issue supply a sample photo, please ?

franknitty69 · Mar 22, 2016

4.35mm with pink eye

5.4mm with pink eye

pete · Mar 22, 2016

franknitty69 said:
4.35mm with pink eye
View attachment 2871

5.4mm with pink eye
View attachment 2872

it's difficult for me because I have this condition :
"People with deuteranomaly and protanomaly are collectively known as red-green colour blind and they generally have difficulty distinguishing between reds, greens, browns and oranges. They also commonly confuse different types of blue and purple hues."

but I do see the pink on your photos but only in the top 2 corners, whether it's affecting bottom 2 corners I can't tell and also I can't tell how far from the top 2 corners the pink cast actually extends further down.

if these weren't photos (if it was a video) and were cropped to standard 16:9, would it still show the pink cast (is it extending that far down) ?

franknitty69 · Mar 22, 2016

pete said:
it's difficult for me because I have this condition :
"People with deuteranomaly and protanomaly are collectively known as red-green colour blind and they generally have difficulty distinguishing between reds, greens, browns and oranges. They also commonly confuse different types of blue and purple hues."

but I do see the pink on your photos but only in the top 2 corners, whether it's affecting bottom 2 corners I can't tell and also I can't tell how far from the top 2 corners the pink cast actually extends further down.

if these weren't photos (if it was a video) and were cropped to standard 16:9, would it still show the pink cast (is it extending that far down) ?

the pink is in all 4 corners but is more prominent against a blue sky. if you crop video or add your own vignette you can get rid of most of it.

Jubalr · Mar 23, 2016

Got in the new 3.8 lens this afternoon. When I got home I installed it, replacing the Peau 4.35 that was in there. Went in easy and just used 1 wrap of plumber's Teflon tape.So far, looks good. Here is a short clip on the first flight, just took it outside in the driveway. This clip is the mp4 straight from the SD card in the GP. Didn't even put it on the computer, 0.00 post. So it is what it is. Be sure to watch in HD....

I was pleasantly surprised by the very little lens flare as I rotated into the sun.

pete · Mar 24, 2016

Jubalr said:
Got in the new 3.8 lens this afternoon. When I got home I installed it, replacing the Peau 4.35 that was in there. Went in easy and just used 1 wrap of plumber's Teflon tape.So far, looks good. Here is a short clip on the first flight, just took it outside in the driveway. This clip is the mp4 straight from the SD card in the GP. Didn't even put it on the computer, 0.00 post. So it is what it is. Be sure to watch in HD....

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I was pleasantly surprised by the very little lens flare as I rotated into the sun.

is your GP4 with the profile removed and if not, are you getting pink corners ?
photos would be great for this.

I'm happy to keep my 3.80mm in the GP3+B because it gives me best results for photography, only that I cannot shoot video 2.7k at 60fps, I'm struggling to find pink corners on my photos, Frank posted some examples above with pink corners but I cannot see any of that in my 3.80mm photos, maybe it's there little but I fail to notice it.
Lens flare is so well controlled.

I cannot remember when I was installing the lens in my GP3+ whether the IR-cut filter was stuck at the bottom, I just cannot remember noticing it. I know my other lens like 5.4mm has this IR-cut filter at the bottom of the lens, but I seriously don't remember seeing it on 3.80mm, is it possible that the filter is somehow built in the lens ? I don't want to remove it now to have a look because it's so perfectly focused.

Pedals2Paddles · Mar 24, 2016

Where did you end up ordering it from, and how long did shipping end up taking? DId you remove the lens profile already?

Jubalr · Mar 24, 2016

@pete & @Pedals2Paddles , My lens profile is stock GP and never been removed. I ordered from the link Frank provided a few pages back. Shipping was fast by DHL, they shipped on Monday and I had it on Wednesday. I ordered 4 and offered them on this forum. I am waiting on 2 members here to confirm they want them. If not, I may have an extra.

I will have to do more testing, but from videos I have done in the same area, it appears to me that the pink issue is less with this lens than it was with my 4.35. In the video below that I took 7 months ago when I installed the 4.35, you can see the pink corners clearly.

pete · Mar 24, 2016

Jubalr said:
In the video below that I took 7 months ago when I installed the 4.35, you can see the pink corners clearly.

I can see it clearly only at 1:29, 1:31, 3:50 just when the sun is near the corner, other than that I struggle to see it, apart from the fact that at times the entire frame seems to me pinkish, not just the corners. 4.35 lens looks very sharp, just the flare is not great.

pyrate · Mar 24, 2016

Jubalr said:
@pete & @Pedals2Paddles , My lens profile is stock GP and never been removed. I ordered from the link Frank provided a few pages back. Shipping was fast by DHL, they shipped on Monday and I had it on Wednesday. I ordered 4 and offered them on this forum. I am waiting on 2 members here to confirm they want them. If not, I may have an extra.

I will have to do more testing, but from videos I have done in the same area, it appears to me that the pink issue is less with this lens than it was with my 4.35. In the video below that I took 7 months ago when I installed the 4.35, you can see the pink corners clearly.

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Good test

I dont think the flare on this one is as nice as the the 3.97, it has that real hard blue dot flare at 1:30 is about center screen.
A filter may take it out though.

That was one reason I abandoned the 4.4, Loved that lens but the flare was horrible, this one seems to be somewhere between the 4.4 and the 3.97 flare wise.

Then again could have been just a weird angle