Is 3D Robotics in danger of closing it's doors?

[Digital-Nitrate]

No, this is not a troll - just a concerned customer. UPDATE: I bought it!

First the back story:

A couple weeks ago I happen to drop by Precision Camera in Austin, TX to do a little browsing and came across their impressive drone section. I have been interested in possibly getting a drone for photography purposes so I started checking out the different drones they had, and a sales person was quick to push the Solo on me, and it certainly seemed to be a very impressive drone... albeit a tad expensive compared to the DJI models they had on display.

That said, the sales clerk was quick to point out many of it's advantages, like how it is built on an open source platform, and that 3D Robotics is an Austin based company that has been making commercial drones for a long time and are now making consumer drones - locally built and with local customer support. This seemed to be backed up by the fact that the instructional videos on YouTube were shot in Austin near the 360 bridge along Lake Austin.

I am all about supporting our local businesses so I went ahead and pulled the trigger and got the bundle which included the Solo, Gimbal, extra battery, and backpack. I also had to get a GoPro camera, and as I have no need for 4K, I opted for the Hero 3+.

After getting it unpacked I immediately had a problem with the styrofoam packaging that was wedged around the attached gimbal, that if I used too much force to try and remove it could have broken off the Drone.

So I called 3DR, which is when I discovered that they are not based out of Austin, and instead are based out of Berkeley CA, and that they were even closing down their Austin office.

This news was a red flag for me, so I started to do some basic research into this company, and from what I can tell, although they were founded in 2009, they had only been making commercial drones for about a year in 2014-2015 and have since ended all production of those commercial drones.

Not only that, but they apparently have ditched the open source platform?

OK, so at the very least, a sales clerk gave me a lot of bad information to make a sale - OK, normally that would not come as a major shock to anyone - except Precision Camera isn't like the vast majority of stores. They have a long rich history in Austin as a premier shop for photographers with very informed and honest staff.

So this has me left wondering if I should simply return everything or just let it go, and enjoy this drone for what it is...

However, having dug a little deeper into 3D Robotics, I am seeing a lot of indicators that they may be in for a very hard landing. It's clear they have hedged all their bets on this one product, and it's also clear that the initial launch was well below expectations - undoubtedly hurt by the fact that it didn't launch with a gimbal.

Things didn't appear to rebound though even after they came out with the gimbal - cost likely hurting them the most in an ever increasing competitive market. That said, for a superior product, I do not have an issue spending more - but I also know I am not the typical consumer they need to attract.

So with revenue not meeting expectations, as far as I can tell, the only thing keeping 3D Robotics above water are it's investors... but it appears that spigot may be getting shut off. The last time they were able to raise any funding was almost a year ago, and nothing else since... and now I come to find out they are closing their Austin office... at the same time they appear to be heavily discounting their products and parts.

The concept for Solo still seems great, but the number of red flags surrounding this company leaves me wondering if they are going to even be around much longer?

Am I reading to much into all of this, or are there other indicators I am missing that would suggest they are doing just fine and angel investors are waiting in the wings so to speak?

What do you all think is in store for 3D Robotics... is this the beginning of the end for them, and if so, what will that mean for Solo owners and parts?

 

[pyrate]

 

[Adimuzio513]

No, this is not a troll - just a concerned customer.

First the back story:

A couple weeks ago I happen to drop by Precision Camera in Austin, TX to do a little browsing and came across their impressive drone section. I have been interested in possibly getting a drone for photography purposes so I started checking out the different drones they had, and a sales person was quick to push the Solo on me, and it certainly seemed to be a very impressive drone... albeit a tad expensive compared to the DJI models they had on display.

That said, the sales clerk was quick to point out many of it's advantages, like how it is built on an open source platform, and that 3D Robotics is an Austin based company that has been making commercial drones for a long time and are now making consumer drones - locally built and with local customer support. This seemed to be backed up by the fact that the instructional videos on YouTube were shot in Austin near the 360 bridge along Lake Austin.

I am all about supporting our local businesses so I went ahead and pulled the trigger and got the bundle which included the Solo, Gimbal, extra battery, and backpack. I also had to get a GoPro camera, and as I have no need for 4K, I opted for the Hero 3+.

After getting it unpacked I immediately had a problem with the styrofoam packaging that was wedged around the attached gimbal, that if I used too much force to try and remove it could have broken off the Drone.

So I called 3DR, which is when I discovered that they are not based out of Austin, and instead are based out of Berkeley CA, and that they were even closing down their Austin office.

This news was a red flag for me, so I started to do some basic research into this company, and from what I can tell, although they were founded in 2009, they had only been making commercial drones for about a year in 2014-2015 and have since ended all production of those commercial drones.

Not only that, but they apparently have ditched the open source platform?

OK, so at the very least, a sales clerk gave me a lot of bad information to make a sale - OK, normally that would not come as a major shock to anyone - except Precision Camera isn't like the vast majority of stores. They have a long rich history in Austin as a premier shop for photographers with very informed and honest staff.

So this has me left wondering if I should simply return everything or just let it go, and enjoy this drone for what it is...

However, having dug a little deeper into 3D Robotics, I am seeing a lot of indicators that they may be in for a very hard landing. It's clear they have hedged all their bets on this one product, and it's also clear that the initial launch was well below expectations - undoubtedly hurt by the fact that it didn't launch with a gimbal.

Things didn't appear to rebound though even after they came out with the gimbal - cost likely hurting them the most in an ever increasing competitive market. That said, for a superior product, I do not have an issue spending more - but I also know I am not the typical consumer they need to attract.

So with revenue not meeting expectations, as far as I can tell, the only thing keeping 3D Robotics above water are it's investors... but it appears that spigot may be getting shut off. The last time they were able to raise any funding was almost a year ago, and nothing else since... and now I come to find out they are closing their Austin office... at the same time they appear to be heavily discounting their products and parts.

The concept for Solo still seems great, but the number of red flags surrounding this company leaves me wondering if they are going to even be around much longer?

Am I reading to much into all of this, or are there other indicators I am missing that would suggest they are doing just fine and angel investors are waiting in the wings so to speak?

What do you all think is in store for 3D Robotics... is this the beginning of the end for them, and if so, what will that mean for Solo owners and parts?

You'll be alright buddy, their sales were way beyond what they expected not below and yes there were a few hiccups, but I've had one since launch that near flawless. They planned on growing slowly and boom exploded, not sure on the Austin office, but I'd bet it has to do with moving from diy into the consumer space. There's another thread a couple days back which Vu himself came and posted that nab has a lot in store for solo and they have plenty in the works. The sky's not falling and you made the right choice, I promise you'll be much happier with solo than any phantom made and I have one of them as well.

 

[Ian [P13]]

There's no official word on this (not that there would be anyway on operation matters) but 3DR has this week advertised a marketing director's job for Berkeley so it looks like they're relocating marketing to the head office.

 

[pyrate]

If dang Vu was not soo good at what he does, I know a good Director of Service they could hire LOL

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

The sky's not falling and you made the right choice, I promise you'll be much happier with solo than any phantom made and I have one of them as well.

I certainly appreciate your enthusiasm, as it makes my $1,600 investment slightly more appealing... but can you be more specific. In what ways will I be much happier with my Solo than any Phantom made?

I am not being glib, I really want to know, as I have to decide whether or not to return it or stick with it in the next few days.

 

[Chuck]

Being a former Phantom owner myself, I can tell you from my point of view. When DJI came out with the Phantom 3 line, the value of my Phantom 2 dropped drastically. The only way to keep up with the new DJI technology was to buy a new drone. At about the same time, I was looking at the Solo. After much reading, and making a few calls, I decided to pre-order one, even though they were a newer company and technology. Like a lot of others, I had to be patient, and put up with the delays, and the bumps in the road. Being just a hobbyist, I had plenty of time, and was in no hurry to rush things. I was very focused on the open platform of Solo, and the ability to add new technology when it came out, without buying a whole new setup. That being said, it is now 8 months later, and everything that was promised has come to pass. All the updates are doing what they are supposed to, and 3DR's customer service has been the best, especially after dealing with the customer service from DJI. And if what Vu has hinted at for 2016 is even close, we are in for more surprises in the future. So, I would say to stick with Solo, download the manual and study it, take it slow and easy, and keep using this forum. The members here are the best for helping you out. I wish you the best, whichever way you go, and fly safe.

 

[Adimuzio513]

Chucks totally on point, if you buy a p3 and want the new tech you'll be buying a p4 then p5, they'll happily tweak one or two things and charge another grand for the same bird. You won't have any chance to upgrade or add on, they make sure of that. Also for filming solo has great adjustment and settings, it just is obviously made specifically for aerial photography. My phantoms fun and goes straight up faster, but feels more like an rc toy that can also be used as a camera. Solo can be used like phantom for filming then switch into sport modes and use it to run around through a course like an fpv racer. Then go into acro take it up and do flips and barrel rolls and aside from all this it can be upgraded to do whatever you or someone with more expertise can think of down the line being an open source platform. I could go on honestly, but it's totally up to you, I enjoy both my quads, but I enjoy solo a whole lot more and am exited to see what comes next. Where as phantom is just that no more no less and anything new will require another grand and basically make my old one a paperweight that I might get 30 percent of what I paid from if sold.

 

[Adimuzio513]

Phantom was my toy and solo now is my tool, even folks with no experience that have seen both say "wow this one looks professional or cool, your white one seemed more like a toy." I'm not bashing, I'm happy I bought my phantom before and for the price of a standard now, it's a deal. If I was thinking of spending the extra on p3 pro or advance now though I can't think of a reason not to get solo instead other than maybe the indoor sensors until solos come out.

 

[Raybro]

Being a former Phantom owner myself, I can tell you from my point of view. When DJI came out with the Phantom 3 line, the value of my Phantom 2 dropped drastically. The only way to keep up with the new DJI technology was to buy a new drone. At about the same time, I was looking at the Solo. After much reading, and making a few calls, I decided to pre-order one, even though they were a newer company and technology. Like a lot of others, I had to be patient, and put up with the delays, and the bumps in the road. Being just a hobbyist, I had plenty of time, and was in no hurry to rush things. I was very focused on the open platform of Solo, and the ability to add new technology when it came out, without buying a whole new setup. That being said, it is now 8 months later, and everything that was promised has come to pass. All the updates are doing what they are supposed to, and 3DR's customer service has been the best, especially after dealing with the customer service from DJI. And if what Vu has hinted at for 2016 is even close, we are in for more surprises in the future. So, I would say to stick with Solo, download the manual and study it, take it slow and easy, and keep using this forum. The members here are the best for helping you out. I wish you the best, whichever way you go, and fly safe.

Ditto indeed!

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Again, I appreciate the enthusiasm, as I would expect from a group of clearly dedicated users - but again, I am curious about the actual specific advantages and disadvantages (it's never a good sign when someone doesn't point out any disadvantages or issues with a product - as it suggests they are hiding something).

Also, saying this is a future proof drone doesn't offer me any real assurances as nothing is really future proof. Neither does it help when someone suggests one has to buy a new DJI each time new features get added - as it suggests they don't do any software updates - which clearly they have - otherwise the DJI P3 wouldn't have the Orbit feature which was apparently added after it launched.

What matters to me is what something can do now, not what it might be able to do in the future... especially from a relatively new company with an extremely limited product line.

That said, I am sure there are some definite advantages to this drone - I'm just trying to understand what those are.

The one that seems to immediately come to mind is speed. For a photography drone I really like the idea that it has a wide choice in speeds, and other options to adjust it's performance levels.

I also like that it supports the use of different 3rd party cameras, in this case the GoPro Hero 3, 3+, and 4.

I am concerned about the limited operating range (800m?) and that apparently the video feed issues as the drone gets further away - even dropping completely. In fact, one of the reviews said that they couldn't even get a video feed unless the camera (Hero3+ Silver) was set specifically at 1080p 60fps Medium.

If true, as that's the camera I use, this could be a deal breaker as it then severely limits what I can use when shooting video. I have to think this was either a settings issue or has been addressed by 3DR and is no longer a limitation to that camera?

But what else should I know. So far I have watched the following in-depth comparison videos of the Solo and the Phantom 3, and they certainly got my attention. What do you think about their reviews? Fair, unfair, and why?

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[pyrate]

If you were truly looking for an objective review you would not have baited your post with something as controversial as you did
You also would try and drudge up more recent and objective videos to counter those who have posted their opinion
two of the three videos you posted were from June of last year. Solo was barely on the shelves. So I do not think you really tried that hard to find newer more objective videos

Yout tube searches are not that difficult

I think you should go for that Phantom 3

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

I am also very interested in autonomous flying options for setting up specific photo shoots.

The Solo has the following:

Cablecam
Orbit
Selfie
Follow

While the DJI P3 has the following:

Course Lock (locks the drone's direction to the current heading)
Home Lock (locks the drone's direction to the recorded home spot)
Point of Interest (same as Solo's Orbit?)
Waypoint (seems to be the same or similar option as the Solo Cablecam - but appears to allow more than 2 waypoints and course changes?)
Favorite Missions (saves and flies previous flight paths)
Follow Me (same as the Solo?)

"Favorite Missions" sounded like the best feature for setting up a very specific flight. Is that also available with the Solo?

I am also very interested in what camera settings options I have during a flight. The reviews seemed to suggest that the DJI offers a lot more camera control options during flight than the Solo, is this true, or does it depend on which GoPro camera you are using?

My Solo came with nothing but a quick set-up guide. So I assume to learn everything it does I need to download a user manual and or watch all the flight school videos?

I have been too busy this week, but I hope to finally get some flying time in this weekend.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

If you were truly looking for an objective review you would not have baited your post with something as controversial as you did

1) I wasn't baiting anything - contrary to your post which suggest you just dismiss anything but your own opinion and are looking for a meaningless verbal fight - neither of which I have any interest in.

2) As for being controversial, my apologies if you are feeling sensitive regarding any discussion on whether a company is financially sound or not - which would be good to know if you are their customer or potential customer.

You also would try and drudge up more recent and objective videos to counter those who have posted their opinion
two of the three videos you posted were from June of last year. Solo was barely on the shelves. So I do not think you really tried that hard to find newer more objective videos

I searched for most viewed and most recent. By all means please post links to recent ones that you seem to suggest are supposedly more objective.

As for the older videos, other than missing the gimbal, which is easy to account for (image is now smooth), what in any of those reviews has the 3DR changed that changes their results?

Also, apparently you didn't even look at all those videos I posted as there is a ton of very positive feedback for the Solo in them. Seriously, the only one sounding like a troll is you in your replies.

I am very serious about understanding the differences so that I can make a more informed decision... something I should have done before trusting the salesperson at Precision Camera - an issue I will be taking up with the owner shortly.

So far the only thing you have contributed to this thread is a childish MEME, and a couple snide meaningless remarks. Thanks?

If you are a representative of the typical Solo customer, maybe you are right, and that I should return it and get something else... How that helps you or 3D Robotics, I am unaware.

If you are not interested in pointing out actual facts about these drones, then please just ignore this thread. Thanks.

 

[User Name]

While the DJI P3 has the following:

Course Lock (locks the drone's direction to the current heading)
Home Lock (locks the drone's direction to the recorded home spot)

I can't say I fully understand how these work, but both could be replicated with cable-cam. Sounds like it's basically flying on a straight line.

Point of Interest (same as Solo's Orbit?)

Solo's orbit mode locks the camera on a point and it'll circle. You can freely control the speed, the diameter of the circle and the altitude. What you can't do is randomly fly around. If that's DJI's POI mode is a circle, than yes, Solo's orbit is the same thing.

Waypoint (seems to be the same or similar option as the Solo Cablecam - but appears to allow more than 2 waypoints and course changes?)
Favorite Missions (saves and flies previous flight paths)

Solo's multi-point cable cam allows you to set an unlimited number of waypoints, and it saves each flight so you can call it back up and refly it exactly in the future.

Additionally, using any one of several ground control station programs (on a PC or smartphone), Solo can fly much more advanced autonomous waypoint flights. You can specify an unlimited number of wayponts, change speeds between each, set timed delays before proceeding, get to a point and then initiate orbits with configurable diameters, numbers of orbits, speeds, etc. You can set a point of interest so while Solo is flying along your waypoints, it'll keep it's camera locked onto the point you set. And you can configure it to land automatically.

This is a huge part of the advantage of the "open-ness" of Solo. It's a variant of the APM flight controller and, as such, can use any of the advanced software available for them. I have a smaller quad that I put an APM flight controller in, and it's amazing what you can configure it to do - and the Solo is capable of the same.

Follow Me (same as the Solo?)

Same as Solo's follow me.

"Favorite Missions" sounded like the best feature for setting up a very specific flight. Is that also available with the Solo?

Yup, see multi-point cable cam and fully autonomous missions from GCS program/app.

I am also very interested in what camera settings options I have during a flight. The reviews seemed to suggest that the DJI offers a lot more camera control options during flight than the Solo, is this true, or does it depend on which GoPro camera you are using?

I believe you need a GP3 Black or a GP4 silver or black to have full control, and as far as I'm aware, it's pretty much any shooting mode the camera offers. You can't bring up the GoPro's tools menu, format the card, etc. but changing frame size/rate/mode/etc, it can do that.

1) I wasn't baiting anything - contrary to your post which suggest you just dismiss anything but your own opinion and are looking for a meaningless verbal fight - neither of which I have any interest in.

You'll have to forgive us. There's a particular, borderline psychotic person who has, since the Solo's announcement, gone around bashing it and 3DR on forums, in on-line retail reviews, under various user names. He has continually spun any news, any reports of problems, anything whatsoever as evidence that the Solo is inherently flawed and that 3DR is on the brink of bankruptcy. He has misconstrued people's words and outright made s%&t up in his quest to see the Solo and 3DR fail, all the while praising anything DJI makes. He's clearly, and seriously, a head case. So when someone new registers here and immediately questions 3DR's viability and starts posting admittedly old comparison videos to DJI's products, people start to get suspicious if it's him or some other nut case that's only interested in bashing the Solo for the betterment of a DJI product.

In any case, as you said, nothing can ever be future-proof. That said, I think the Solo is about as future-proof as any ready-to-fly camera platform in this general ballpark price can be. As far as we know, 3DR is not releasing a "Solo 2.0" this year, and fully intends on further extending the capabilities of the current one. DJI, on the other hand, has established a yearly release cycle for their products. There's pluses and minuses to each approach, whether they matter to you depends on your needs and interests.

In the end, I think you have to buy the product that fits your needs now, and that you think will serve you the longest. Support is or isn't a significant factor depending on your views. To me, it was probably the biggest single reason I went with the Solo. 3DR has, hands down, the one of the best, most liberal support policies of ANY company around. In most circumstances, they'll replace destroyed products with little question. Even if the damage was down to user error, they often offer a discount on a refurbished unit. I had a problem with my original gimbal, and they replaced it after 6 months of use, in about a week, without question, including shipping both ways.

At some point, it becomes splitting hairs. All these things are plenty capable, reasonably reliable and, sooner or later, will fall from the sky and be utterly destroyed. You buy one, use it as much as you can, for as much as you want, while it lasts. They're kinda like cars - they all get you where you want to go, and they're all destined for the junk yard. Your time is better spent using whichever one you choose than worrying that you choose the wrong one.

Just my long 2c.

 

[Adimuzio513]

Every option you mention for p3 is also on solo, that said it seems that your wanting us to talk you out of something you've already decided on doing. If all the above and all the you tube comparison vids from actual owners of both haven't convinced you than you've likely made up your mind and dji may very well be the best for you. If p3 meets your expectations and solo is causing you to worry this much about your purchase than you have your answer.

In my case theirs no way I could choose a p3 over solo, but different strokes right. Obviously my needs and expectations are different from yours as yours are different than the next guy. This site and community alone compared to the phantom equivalents, beside the bird being better imo is reason enough for me.

Good luck with whichever you choose and fly safe.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Thank you "User Name", thank you, thank you... best 2c I could have hoped for so far! This is the kind of info I was hoping to see.

I am particularly happy to hear about the option for unlimited number of waypoints and following saved flight paths! That's probably what I will use the most.

I am worried about my camera choice though (GoPro Hero3+ Silver). So for those that do use this camera with their Solos, is there a thread offering suggestions on how best to use the settings? I figured I could set the camera up before launch and then start recording, but I do want to still see a video stream using the phone app to make accurate adjustments to the positioning of the camera... or is that just not possible with that camera?

As for the concerns about someone trolling your site - I totally understand why that could cause some to be very sensitive to new users, and it's why I hate people who troll - it ruins it for everyone. That said, I would hope most would give the benefit of doubt before crying fowl, so I thank you for your response.

I plan on finally putting some flying time in tomorrow, so hopefully I'll have a better idea by next week. Although I don't even know anyone with a DJI, let alone a P3 pro so I wont be able to do any comparison myself unfortunately.

That said, I tend to share your belief that it is likely all just splitting hairs, and that I am better off just enjoying what I have and less time worrying what other choices I have. I do sometimes tend to over think things I suppose.

I do worry though about the operating range of just 800m... That's only about half a mile? Is there any way of extending that, like with different antenna? I've heard of drones being operated at well over 5 miles away... that's more than I would need, but I'd expect at least a range of about 2 miles. Any suggestions?

 

[Adimuzio513]

Fpvlr makes a fantastic antenna that will give you plenty of range and flawless video feed. It's all I use now, the stock set is very lacking on solo. I've not dropped signal since installing it, there are threads on that here as well if ya search fpvlr.

 

[User Name]

Thank you "User Name"

No problem. I second-guessed myself quite a bit shortly after purchase. The gimbal had just been released and there were a few issues with it, all subsequently fixed in firmware (beside the one I had that they replaced it for). It was just a lot of money to drop on a product and I think I was just nervous about it all being lost in a crash.

Then I took the view I did when I was doing underwater photography - they say it's not IF your housing is going to flood, it's WHEN. In the years I was doing it, I never had a housing flood, I did loose a strobe, but the money I made and simply the enjoyment far more than surpassed the cost of the strobe. I'm thinking the Solo will be the same - although money isn't really in the picture, the enjoyment will be more than the loss WHEN it comes. With that view, you just go out and try to enjoy it as much as possible.

I do worry though about the operating range of just 800m... That's only about half a mile? Is there any way of extending that, like with different antenna? I've heard of drones being operated at well over 5 miles away... that's more than I would need, but I'd expect at least a range of about 2 miles. Any suggestions?

As Adimuzio said, the FPVLR antennas are widely considered the best you can get for the Solo. However, I'd suggest just seeing how the stock antennas work out for you. I had bought an Alpha antenna at the same time I bought the Solo (the Alpha was only about $30 and some had reported significant range with it), but I've honestly never put it on. Half a mile doesn't sound like much, but when you consider that you're supposed to maintain line of sight... there's no way you're seeing a little Solo at a half mile away. I've flown as far as I've been comfortable doing so, never lost the signal and the video has always been crystal clear. When you get yours up in the air and a half mile away, you'll see how far that really is. I don't think I'd ever have the nerve to fly 2 miles out, even if it could do it.

I'm just saying the range on the stock antennas is PLENTY for you to start playing with it. If you feel like you need more, the FPVLRs are the ones to get, but you may very well find you don't need them.

 

[Acroduster]

Also, to address your GP3+ Silver question, it is my understanding that you will be able to start and stop recording and see FPV, but you will not be able to adjust the camera settings in flight (video to still, resolution, etc.). The earliest camera with full capability is the 3+ Black.