FAA does not Require Pilots License for Ultra light Air Craft

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I was wondering if anyone has ever seen any of this come up in the talks with the FAA.
It is hard for me to believe that ultralights are not required to hold a current license to fly
but UAV's are to fly commercially.

Am I missing something?
 
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As far as I'm aware, single seat "ultralight" aircraft need no license, but 2 seat versions need a Sport Pilot Certificate.

I totally agree at the absurdity of being able to hop in an ultralight with no license, knowledge or experience and take to the skies, yet if I want to sell one of my quadcopter videos, I need a full-on pilot's license.

I think it comes down to commercial vs. non-commercial operation - usually anything done for commercial purposes comes with higher license/certification purposes. License requirements are only required if you're using a drone commercially.

This will all likely be settled once regulations catch up with technology. There's clearly no reasonable justification for needing a pilot's license to fly a drone beyond simple education with regards to flight rules. It's just that these things have developed faster than the FAA has been able to come up with an appropriate certification, so their usage has been lumped in with full size aircraft.

So, yea, it's stupid, but give it time for the government to catch up.
 
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I agree with the thought of having commercial utilization require more certifications. But a pilots license completely puts the cost of operating a small Aerial Business out of the park. But again, that's probably more of the point of it than the consequence. I will just continue to hone my skills and wait to see what the FAA Gods decided to decree.
 
I agree with the thought of having commercial utilization require more certifications. But a pilots license completely puts the cost of operating a small Aerial Business out of the park. But again, that's probably more of the point of it than the consequence. I will just continue to hone my skills and wait to see what the FAA Gods decided to decree.

Same here, at some point I'd like to do it commercially, but for now I'll just work on my skills. The worst part is that I know how to fly. Growing up, my father had a little Cessna 150 and I probably have several hundred hours flying time, so I'd most likely be able to get my license with near the minimum hours required, but I still can't swing/justify the cost at this point, especially just to be able to attempt to make some money with a quadcopter.
 
In case you haven't seen the other threads on this, you can get a pilot's license in as little as 10 hours (not that many people do it the minimum time required). This is the route I went for about $4k.
 
Keep in mind the Section 333 exemptions are a temporary solution the FAA came up with. The final rules may not require a full on pilot license. I think you only really need the ground school part of the license.

But also keep in mind that a lot of businesses have spent the money (including mine) to meet the requirements of the Section 333 exemption (requiring pilot license). I can't remember the source now, but I heard there were groups who are opposed to removing the pilots license requirement from the final rule in an attempt to keep their competitive edge.
 
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Totally agree, I'm happy to take some tests or training to prove my air worthiness, but even 4 up to 10 grand plus to profit in any way from rc photography is insane. Yes their need to be safety regs to stop those who refuse to use common sense, but it'd be nice if this wasn't another only the rich can get richer endeavor. Registrations a good step and testing is needed, but If I'm passionate enough to put in the hours and money to be good enough that people would buy my videos and can do so safely I think I deserve a shot. It costs a good amount and takes quite a bit of time to get the skills and equipment needed to do professional quality work anyway. Add a full on pilots license to fly an rc aircraft for a profit of any kind and it's a big hill to overcome to even make a dime. If ultra lites need no license this whole issue is a joke, I grew up around those my whole life and they are flying lawn mowers in most cases. Far more dangerous than our multis could ever be.

The ground portion plus logging a certain number of hours flying a multi should be plenty enough to show your very capable of doing work. It takes very little to be certified to drive a car, bobcat, lull or a hundred types of other equipment commercially yet all of these things cause more deaths weekly than drones could in 10 years. Commitment, time, and passion show a lot more than paying your way into a license. Four grand is closer to reasonable, but im betting that's a long way from what the average license ends up costing. I'm sure those who had or bought a license already disagree, but common sense clearly isn't being used with this requirement. It's just causing people like myself waiting and hoping to go the legal route to fall behind competitors doing it illegally today because the percentage caught is very slim. I'll be doing this on top of my normal 40 to 60 hour work week, so making back that 10 grand back with solo could take quite a while, I just want to do something I love and enjoy for work.

Rant over my apologies, I'd just hoped this time they'd stop dragging their feet and at very least decide one way or the other. Sadly that doesn't look too promising yet again.
 
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In case you haven't seen the other threads on this, you can get a pilot's license in as little as 10 hours (not that many people do it the minimum time required). This is the route I went for about $4k.
Yes I have spent the time to look into a pilots license. But there is no level headed person that can tell me this is necessary when the FAA allows ultralights to fly with out one. Even if it is not for profit. It just speaks to the fact that it's about cutting out the smaller guys so that the bigger companies can charge more profits for their work. The fact that some of those that have met the exception want it to remain in place are proof of that theory. It's more about shrinking the competitive arena under the guise of " public safety" If that's what it is really about than spell that out. I understand that sometimes you have to pay to play. I have not seen one rationale argument for using this standard that makes any sense. The fact that others have done it is not a reason to sway my opinion. Granted, If I had the time and the means to go after my license I would but only because I have to. It is sad to me that we cannot utilize the functions of these awesome machines in a way to make a little extra cash to enjoy our hobby. It seems to be that is the only goal that these regulations have accomplished. Only the responsible pilots are going to follow the rules anyway.
Most of the issue are going to continue anyway. If someone doesn't have enough common sense to not fly these things in a manner to interrupt flight patterns then they are certainly not going to follow or be aware of any of the rules the FAA has laid out. I digress. I know these issues have gone round and round since the beginning of all this. But when I read today that Ultra lights don't even require a license to be flown that is just BANANAS. It just goes to show that the line the FAA is taking publicly is a complete farce. Just my two cents not even worth a dime.
 
Keep in mind the Section 333 exemptions are a temporary solution the FAA came up with. The final rules may not require a full on pilot license. I think you only really need the ground school part of the license.

But also keep in mind that a lot of businesses have spent the money (including mine) to meet the requirements of the Section 333 exemption (requiring pilot license). I can't remember the source now, but I heard there were groups who are opposed to removing the pilots license requirement from the final rule in an attempt to keep their competitive edge.

I do understand that. Honestly If I had the time and the means I would pursue this line as well. I have always wanted to get my license anyway. But the thought that you need one to fly a drone really is a huge over step in my opinion. And you know what they say about those ? lol. I am in agreement that something has to be done. But is should be done across the board. If Drone operators have to have a license in the interest of public safety than so should actual vehicles that take flight manned or unmanned. Or at least some ground base certification in the arena of flight operations, restrictions, and protocols. I am optimistic that the FAA will come to reason with a plan and training options to insure that all of our pilots are knowledgable and safe whether you are paid for you flights or not.
 
Totally agree, I'm happy to take some tests or training to prove my air worthiness, but even 4 up to 10 grand plus to profit in any way from rc photography is insane. Yes their need to be safety regs to stop those who refuse to use common sense, but it'd be nice if this wasn't another only the rich can get richer endeavor. Registrations a good step and testing is needed, but If I'm passionate enough to put in the hours and money to be good enough that people would buy my videos and can do so safely I think I deserve a shot. It costs a good amount and takes quite a bit of time to get the skills and equipment needed to do professional quality work anyway. Add a full on pilots license to fly an rc aircraft for a profit of any kind and it's a big hill to overcome to even make a dime. If ultra lites need no license this whole issue is a joke, I grew up around those my whole life and they are flying lawn mowers in most cases. Far more dangerous than our multis could ever be.

The ground portion plus logging a certain number of hours flying a multi should be plenty enough to show your very capable of doing work. It takes very little to be certified to drive a car, bobcat, lull or a hundred types of other equipment commercially yet all of these things cause more deaths weekly than drones could in 10 years. Commitment, time, and passion show a lot more than paying your way into a license. Four grand is closer to reasonable, but im betting that's a long way from what the average license ends up costing. I'm sure those who had or bought a license already disagree, but common sense clearly isn't being used with this requirement. It's just causing people like myself waiting and hoping to go the legal route to fall behind competitors doing it illegally today because the percentage caught is very slim. I'll be doing this on top of my normal 40 to 60 hour work week, so making back that 10 grand back with solo could take quite a while, I just want to do something I love and enjoy for work.

Rant over my apologies, I'd just hoped this time they'd stop dragging their feet and at very least decide one way or the other. Sadly that doesn't look too promising yet again.


I think we are on the same page with this. I am not looking to get rich flying drones. But a few bucks here and there to help you along in enjoying this sport sure goes a long way with the wife lol. I am optimistic they will come up with some resolution. It's just frustrating to me because Helis's have been doing this same work with out issues for years. Now these restrictions are being applied to all aircraft across the board who have been flying without issues for years. . Almost as if flying RC just started with invent of the quadcopter. And even they have been around for a long time. It is non sensical. The longer they wait the easier it is going to be for the larger companies to squeeze right out of the ability to fly at all.
 
In case you haven't seen the other threads on this, you can get a pilot's license in as little as 10 hours (not that many people do it the minimum time required). This is the route I went for about $4k.

I'm sure there are cheaper routes to go, but $4k is still a hefty chunk of money to achieve something entirely unrelated to the actual task/goal beyond regulatory absurdity. And yea, most people will not complete it in the minimum hours, so the cost will likely be a few grand higher still.

But as I said, this is all because regulations haven't had the time to catch up to the technology. And I'm not criticizing that, you don't want rushed regulations that miss the mark. What we have no isn't ideal by a long shot, but it's a workable stopgap until a more thorough solution comes to pass.

So this is funny. I have a (very pleasant) recurring dream that I can fly, like swim through the sky type of flying. I fly above the trees, land on roof tops, etc. It's great. So last night, I have the dream again, and I kid you not, in the dream I think to myself "Hey, I'm going to mount a gimbal and a GoPro to a bicycle helmet, and then I can get any video I want and the FAA can't restrict me since I'm not "operating" anything but myself. I can go over 400 feet, I can sell my videos, etc.". And then I woke up and it was a double disappointment. Not only can't I really fly... but I'm still restricted in the use of the vehicle I CAN fly! :D
 
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I'm sure there are cheaper routes to go, but $4k is still a hefty chunk of money to achieve something entirely unrelated to the actual task/goal beyond regulatory absurdity. And yea, most people will not complete it in the minimum hours, so the cost will likely be a few grand higher still.

But as I said, this is all because regulations haven't had the time to catch up to the technology. And I'm not criticizing that, you don't want rushed regulations that miss the mark. What we have no isn't ideal by a long shot, but it's a workable stopgap until a more thorough solution comes to pass.

So this is funny. I have a (very pleasant) recurring dream that I can fly, like swim through the sky type of flying. I fly above the trees, land on roof tops, etc. It's great. So last night, I have the dream again, and I kid you not, in the dream I think to myself "Hey, I'm going to mount a gimbal and a GoPro to a bicycle helmet, and then I can get any video I want and the FAA can't restrict me since I'm not "operating" anything but myself. I can go over 400 feet, I can sell my videos, etc.". And then I woke up and it was a double disappointment. Not only can't I really fly... but I'm still restricted in the use of the vehicle I CAN fly! :D

That is the funniest thing I have hear all day. And it's been a crazy funny day. Too funny
 
I think I read somewhere (I'll try and find the source) where the FAA was going to re-think the pilot/sport pilot license issue for commercial applications concerning drones between 0.55 lbs. (250 g) and less than 55 lbs. (25 kg). It was supposed to be decided sometime in the next 4-6 months.

Even though I could renew my PPL with minimum ground school, check flight, etc., it's still EXPENSIVE and the reason I quit flying 20+ years ago. A sport pilots license, however, is very attainable. Here's how you do it:
1. Meet medical and Eligibility
2. Pass a FAA sport pilot knowledge test
3. Receive flight instruction in an appropriate aircraft
4. Pass a FAA sport pilot practical test
5. Sport Pilot Certificate Issued

Sounds easy enough. Get-er-done!
 
The FAA has always and will always have their hand in regulating anything that flies in the air for profit. You can't just get your helicopter license, buy a camera, and start flying to film movies for money. I personally believe that there should be some combination of hours and a test to receive your Commercial UAV rating. Is a regular pilots license the answer? I don't think so but for now it equips UAV operators with airspace knowledge and more of a sense of responsibility while operating in the U.S. Airspace system. People are going to do things that aren't safe or make mistakes even if they have a license, it's human nature. For instance, just this morning we had some guy in a Cessna blast right through New York departure traffic without a transponder and not talking to ATC resulting in some evasive maneuvers. The FAA wants safe skies and this is the only answer they have at the moment (in a very rapidly growing market) to try and regulate the market to keep it safer. I'd expect it to be a very fluid industry as they try to adapt as well.

I am of the opinion that this type of regulation (more drone specific training and testing for a "commercial drone certificate") will actually help the industry by providing better quality pilots and safer operations. Also, at the end of the day your work will be more valuable if you go through a program such as this.
 
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The FAA has always and will always have their hand in regulating anything that flies in the air for profit. You can't just get your helicopter license, buy a camera, and start flying to film movies for money. I personally believe that there should be some combination of hours and a test to receive your Commercial UAV rating. Is a regular pilots license the answer? I don't think so but for now it equips UAV operators with airspace knowledge and more of a sense of responsibility while operating in the U.S. Airspace system. People are going to do things that aren't safe or make mistakes even if they have a license, it's human nature. For instance, just this morning we had some guy in a Cessna blast right through New York departure traffic without a transponder and not talking to ATC resulting in some evasive maneuvers. The FAA wants safe skies and this is the only answer they have at the moment (in a very rapidly growing market) to try and regulate the market to keep it safer. I'd expect it to be a very fluid industry as they try to adapt as well.

I am of the opinion that this type of regulation (more drone specific training and testing for a "commercial drone certificate") will actually help the industry by providing better quality pilots and safer operations. Also, at the end of the day your work will be more valuable if you go through a program such as this.
I would have to agree with this as well. While I have my PPL and met the requirements to date, I think having a PPL requirement for MultiRotors is a little overboard but it's what the FAA has to work with at the moment as requirements for commercial operators are fine tuned. But I do not think it should be easy either. Just having to go online and take a test, and now your an operator is not the answer. But something between that and a PPL will be needed. As opposed to just out flying in the park somewhere, commercial jobs will put you in a lot of different areas with varying situations that is going to require a higher regard for safety and airspace. Demonstrating a dedication to learning certain requirements before testing will weed out some that just bought a cheap MR and thought they would wake up the next day and make money with it. And as will always be the case, many will just ignore any requirements anyway and do as they please. and for those, the rest of us will have to pay. But hopefully, with a little education, commercial operations looking for pilots will require they be licensed and insured. Like hiring a contractor; hire cheap and ignore no license or insurance will eventually bite you in the butt.
 
I think I read somewhere (I'll try and find the source) where the FAA was going to re-think the pilot/sport pilot license issue for commercial applications concerning drones between 0.55 lbs. (250 g) and less than 55 lbs. (25 kg). It was supposed to be decided sometime in the next 4-6 months.

Even though I could renew my PPL with minimum ground school, check flight, etc., it's still EXPENSIVE and the reason I quit flying 20+ years ago. A sport pilots license, however, is very attainable. Here's how you do it:
1. Meet medical and Eligibility
2. Pass a FAA sport pilot knowledge test
3. Receive flight instruction in an appropriate aircraft
4. Pass a FAA sport pilot practical test
5. Sport Pilot Certificate Issued

Sounds easy enough. Get-er-done!

I know they are attainable. It is a good excuse to use with my wif
The FAA has always and will always have their hand in regulating anything that flies in the air for profit. You can't just get your helicopter license, buy a camera, and start flying to film movies for money. I personally believe that there should be some combination of hours and a test to receive your Commercial UAV rating. Is a regular pilots license the answer? I don't think so but for now it equips UAV operators with airspace knowledge and more of a sense of responsibility while operating in the U.S. Airspace system. People are going to do things that aren't safe or make mistakes even if they have a license, it's human nature. For instance, just this morning we had some guy in a Cessna blast right through New York departure traffic without a transponder and not talking to ATC resulting in some evasive maneuvers. The FAA wants safe skies and this is the only answer they have at the moment (in a very rapidly growing market) to try and regulate the market to keep it safer. I'd expect it to be a very fluid industry as they try to adapt as well.

I am of the opinion that this type of regulation (more drone specific training and testing for a "commercial drone certificate") will actually help the industry by providing better quality pilots and safer operations. Also, at the end of the day your work will be more valuable if you go through a program such as this.
I agree with all of these points, I agree with the decision to test, and certify pilots as well. I didn't use to until I understood how much of an increase there has been with RC UAV's interfering with flight operations. But I do believe it is a bit naive to think the FAA's motives is out of the safety of the skies. It's more about control and regulation of the airspace below 500 ft as it had now become a profitable area.
10 hours?
I believe he is referring to the amount of flight time required to certify.
 
I would have to agree with this as well. While I have my PPL and met the requirements to date, I think having a PPL requirement for MultiRotors is a little overboard but it's what the FAA has to work with at the moment as requirements for commercial operators are fine tuned. But I do not think it should be easy either. Just having to go online and take a test, and now your an operator is not the answer. But something between that and a PPL will be needed. As opposed to just out flying in the park somewhere, commercial jobs will put you in a lot of different areas with varying situations that is going to require a higher regard for safety and airspace. Demonstrating a dedication to learning certain requirements before testing will weed out some that just bought a cheap MR and thought they would wake up the next day and make money with it. And as will always be the case, many will just ignore any requirements anyway and do as they please. and for those, the rest of us will have to pay. But hopefully, with a little education, commercial operations looking for pilots will require they be licensed and insured. Like hiring a contractor; hire cheap and ignore no license or insurance will eventually bite you in the butt.

I agree, I guess I will just have to be patient to see how the it all shakes out in the end. I really can't imagine that they will continue with the need for a PPL will be needed. And honestly to go and get one now could end be a complete waste of time unless you actually have intentions on flying. Which to be honest, If i did go that route. I don't think I would have to much time for the UAV stuff anymore as I would be to busy flying in First person view from an actual cockpit lol...
 
I agree, I guess I will just have to be patient to see how the it all shakes out in the end. I really can't imagine that they will continue with the need for a PPL will be needed. And honestly to go and get one now could end be a complete waste of time unless you actually have intentions on flying. Which to be honest, If i did go that route. I don't think I would have to much time for the UAV stuff anymore as I would be to busy flying in First person view from an actual cockpit lol...
That happened to me back in the 90s. I had already been flying RC Nitro Helis when I go a job in central CA. that required traveling in the state. I first bought a plane. then I only had to pay for the instructor time. I picked up a nice 71' model Cessna 172 with mid time on it for $26k. Got my license in 46hrs, but it also put a crimp on the RC stuff for awhile as flying the real thing was more enjoyable.
 
I agree with all of these points, I agree with the decision to test, and certify pilots as well. I didn't use to until I understood how much of an increase there has been with RC UAV's interfering with flight operations. But I do believe it is a bit naive to think the FAA's motives is out of the safety of the skies. It's more about control and regulation of the airspace below 500 ft as it had now become a profitable area.

With control and regulation comes increased safety. As much as I don't like the FAA sometimes, they are a pretty safety conscious organization. For now the FAA isn't getting rich charging $5 per user to register UAV's. It will be interesting to see how it all progresses though if/when the likes of Amazon start using the airspace for drone deliveries and such.

I started off thinking flying the real thing was more fun. Now I do it for work and all I want to do is escape crowded airports and get out in the wilderness, bringing solo along. I feel fortunate to have the option to get my 333 exemption to fall back on or pick up extra money on the side, but for now I'm enjoying it as another hobby and not a work grind.
 

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