Does crashing once as a result of user error void warranty on any future failures?

alex covo · Jan 2, 2016

I ask because I recently flipped my Solo on landing (I forgot to engage manual mode, and was still in Orbit Mode. User error) After visually inspecting props and motors I went for a second flight. I hovered for a few and everything seemed fine. I proceeded to perform a Selfie smart shot. On the way back one engine had a partial failure, and my Solo crashed and thrashed around for a few seconds after bouncing a few times. I lost contact with it after the first bounce.

Tech Support told me that the engine that had the partial failure was running hot after the first incident, and hence, why it failed on my second flight. Sooooo...does that mean that any future mechanical failure is now not covered by the warranty? Meaning if I crash, and its not a result of human error, but a mechanical failure, I will be told that it's not covered because it was probably damaged previously?

How are we suppose to know if there is something wrong with the Solo beyond visual inspection and some basic checks? I would have never risked sending it back up had I known a motor was running hot and it could result in motor failure.

Can someone educate me in the art of post accident inspection to make sure the Solo is flight worthy? If another motor fails, am I now on my own? Because of pilot error on a previous flight that may have resulted in damage to another component on the Solo? Its a big investment and I want to know where I stand.

Anyone have an idea or opinions? Thanks!

erikgraham · Jan 2, 2016

alex covo said:
I ask because I recently flipped my Solo on landing (I forgot to engage manual mode, and was still in Orbit Mode. User error) After visually inspecting props and motors I went for a second flight. I hovered for a few and everything seemed fine. I proceeded to perform a Selfie smart shot. On the way back one engine had a partial failure, and my Solo crashed and thrashed around for a few seconds after bouncing a few times. I lost contact with it after the first bounce.

Tech Support told me that the engine that had the partial failure was running hot after the first incident, and hence, why it failed on my second flight. Sooooo...does that mean that any future mechanical failure is now not covered by the warranty? Meaning if I crash, and its not a result of human error, but a mechanical failure, I will be told that it's not covered because it was probably damaged previously?

How are we suppose to know if there is something wrong with the Solo beyond visual inspection and some basic checks? I would have never risked sending it back up had I known a motor was running hot and it could result in motor failure.

Can someone educate me in the art of post accident inspection to make sure the Solo is flight worthy? If another motor fails, am I now on my own? Because of pilot error on a previous flight that may have resulted in damage to another component on the Solo? Its a big investment and I want to know where I stand.

Anyone have an idea or opinions? Thanks!

Wow. That's a tough one. I can see it both ways.

alex covo · Jan 2, 2016

erikgraham said:
Wow. That's a tough one. I can see it both ways.

Yeah it is. The folks at 3DR have been pretty stellar with support. But from a liability stand point, If I had that failure and it had hit someone while thrashing around, where in lies the the liability? who's fault is it. I guess its a use case that needs to be debated. Something for insurance companies to consider as well. When an aircraft has an incident, it's pulled from service and has to pass an inspection again. But we have nothing like that. So, who's responsible?

Gary Burch · Jan 3, 2016

Check your motors after flight and if one is running hot replace before next flight. Start motors without props and check for any noise that could be a bearing going out.

RichWest · Jan 3, 2016

alex covo said:
Can someone educate me in the art of post accident inspection to make sure the Solo is flight worthy? If another motor fails, am I now on my own? Because of pilot error on a previous flight that may have resulted in damage to another component on the Solo?

This is actually a very good idea, a tutorial of sorts to inspect a crashed bird for flight worthiness. Maybe we can get @TheBasicPilot to produce a short video on processing an inspection....pretty please.

Key points:
Air Frame intact - no fractures or deformed
Motor alignment - not loose or canted in frame
Motor spin - hand operated - no debris or grinding when turned
Motor run up - less props - bearings, imbalance or excessive vibration
Battery and Tray properly secures

alex covo · Jan 3, 2016

RichWest said:
This is actually a very good idea, a tutorial of sorts to inspect a crashed bird for flight worthiness. Maybe we can get @TheBasicPilot to produce a short video on processing an inspection....pretty please.

Key points:
Air Frame intact - no fractures or deformed
Motor alignment - not loose or canted in frame
Motor spin - hand operated - no debris or grinding when turned
Motor run up - less props - bearings, imbalance or excessive vibration
Battery and Tray properly secures

That would be amazing. I think it would probably in less crashes in the future. Also peace of mind.

pyrate · Jan 3, 2016

The warranty is voided from landing in orbit. clearly pilot error.
having said that, its a good point to have a check list
when I crashed mine, I just did a full battery under very close to the ground and close in flight to make sure all was good.

Ian [P13] · Jan 3, 2016

Once you've replaced the motor that's been damaged you wouldn't necessarily be voided from cover in future, say for example a firmware bug crashes your Solo, the fact you've had a crash and replaced your motor pods won't void you from a claim as the two things would be unrelated.

alex covo · Jan 4, 2016

Ian [P13] said:
Once you've replaced the motor that's been damaged you wouldn't necessarily be voided from cover in future, say for example a firmware bug crashes your Solo, the fact you've had a crash and replaced your motor pods won't void you from a claim as the two things would be unrelated.

Sounds reasonable. 3DR has been really great with their support. I'm happy with the Solo, Not happy with my flying

I definitely learned a valuable lesson from this incident. First and foremost to have a much more thorough preflight check list, especially after experiencing a crash of any sort. Lesson learned.

alex covo · Jan 4, 2016

pyrate said:
The warranty is voided from landing in orbit. clearly pilot error.
having said that, its a good point to have a check list
when I crashed mine, I just did a full battery under very close to the ground and close in flight to make sure all was good.

Thanks and I agree. Definitely will create a better preflight checklist. Didn't seem so critical because it's too easy to fly this bird. They should have made it harder so you have to think twice about anything you do! ;p

RichWest · Jan 5, 2016

I found a interesting video somewhat related to the topic of dissecting a failure. via Mission Planner.

alex covo · Jan 9, 2016

RichWest said:
I found a interesting video somewhat related to the topic of dissecting a failure. via Mission Planner.

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This is great! Thank you for posting. Thsnks everyone for your insights!

rassalas · Jan 9, 2016

Has anyone done the motor test through mission planner?

PdxSteve · Jan 9, 2016

Just a note with Mission Planner. If you accidentally change any parameters in there and it leads to a crash, 3DR WON'T cover it.

Kristophet · Jan 9, 2016

3dr has told me that Solo's computer runs comprehensive diagnostics on the entire system when powered on and will not start if an engine is compromised. They also said that if the engines start, there shouldn't be anything to worry about. I was told this after I expressed concern that one of my engines might be failing.

rassalas · Jan 9, 2016

Kristophet, Ya that's bullarkey. My solo had a messed up HDMI Cable, they wanted me to send it back to change that, Although it was flying well enough there were some strange behaviors. Long story short, They changed the cables and decided one of the motor pods was damaged and changed it. There was no self diagnosis that made me think that.
PDXSteve, I'm not asking about changing parameters, I'm asking if anyone has tried the diagnostics tests on the motors using Mission Planner. If I want to change parameters I use the Tower app. Thanks anyways for the helpful advisement.

alex covo · Jan 9, 2016

Kristophet said:
3dr has told me that Solo's computer runs comprehensive diagnostics on the entire system when powered on and will not start if an engine is compromised. They also said that if the engines start, there shouldn't be anything to worry about. I was told this after I expressed concern that one of my engines might be failing.

In my case, that is not accurate. Apparently when I flipped Solo on landing, it caused engine #2 to partially fail on my second flight causing a worse crash. They said the motor was running hot after the first incident and that caused the actual failure. I was doing a simple "selfie" smart shot so wasn't doing anything outside of reasonable usage. I was told that there is no way Solo (programmatically) would have known the motor was going to fail - because it was the result of an end-user error that caused the first accident. Even though it was a minor back flip on landing, and even though I had prop guards, and landed on grass, it was suffice to cause enough "unseen" damage to my motor, and caused a partial failure during my second flight. My original questions were why didn't Solo detect that the motor was going bad, and why did it not notify me of any potential issues? Also, why did it let me take off, go into a smart shot, and not force itself to land upon reaching the point of failure? Why didn't it shut off automatically when I lost connection with it after it hit the ground and started to bounce around? The answer was that those safety protocols were being worked on. My assumption is that when you develop all the use cases for a UAV, this wasn't as big a priority as a smart shot. I'm sure people will be putting their uav's back in the air after a small incident, because most consumers won't know better. I think Safety will eventually be more important than everything else. The good thing is that this is a "smart" drone and according to support, they will be adding all those safety features.

This puts the responsibility on the end-user/pilot to make sure that if you have an incident, to inspect your bird by running diagnostics on the motors. I think its a reasonable expectation. I learned that I have to perform thorough inspection/diagnostic before/after I have an incident. I'm glad they are working on making the Solo safer for less experienced operators. Had I actually been flying over people or someones property, it could have been potentially worse. My take away...don't count on anyone. Flying "solo" means flying solo. Always fly safe.