Wanna make money with my drone?

[Mklepack]

Time and money are the biggest problems to get the pilots license for most of us. Yes, if you fly stupid then you need to be penalized. You can do a lot more damage driving a car through a crowd of people or into the side of a house. It would be nice if there was a short quadcopter course (like a motorcycle license course) pass the written exam and do 1 certification flight.

 

[Adimuzio513]

Time and money are the biggest problems to get the pilots license for most of us. Yes, if you fly stupid then you need to be penalized. You can do a lot more damage driving a car through a crowd of people or into the side of a house. It would be nice if there was a short quadcopter course (like a motorcycle license course) pass the written exam and do 1 certification flight.

Yea I understand if for commercial purpose they will want us to have training and surely will want a piece of the action immediately, but there needs to be a middle ground somewhere. Hundreds of hours and 10 grand is way past excessive to fly a little camera around a home and take a few pics. I'm fine paying and spending the time practicing, it's better that way then every guy who gets one won't expect to be making money, but common sense needs to be used by us and the folks making the rules. Then there won't be so many doing it illegally and those of us who took the time and spent the money will be careful what we do same as a pilot so we don't lose the privilege to do the work.

Common sense is sometimes hard to come by anymore so wel see what happens though, I'm crossing my fingers and hoping they figure these things out sooner than later. If not the only folks that will end up making decent money doing it will be those who already are rich and own large companies, instead of us putting in all the hours getting good at it having a chance to make a living doing what we love.

 

[nexxypoo]

The view from Australia:
(Note: I am no expert, just an enthusiast learning the ropes, and I am opinionated so apologies in advance)
Here, CASA require anyone piloting remotely for material profit (not just money) to a) have a Controllers Certificate, rated for the specific airframe etc, and b) be operating under an Operators Certificate, which is usually held by a company (they are responsible for the ops, maint etc).
The CC is a few grand to get if you arent already a pilot and need training, otherwise the test by itself is a few hundred bucks and all the material is available (but a tad hard to find) online. Rating for each airframe can be fairly straightforward and not prohibitively expensive.
I have heard the OC can cost a fair bit to set up, and takes some time to get through the beuraucracy. I have no idea on actual figures.
Hobbyists are free to pretty much do as they please, providing they stick to the basic safety and privacy rules and laws (under 400ft, stay the f#ck away from aerodromes, no pics of chicks sunbathing in their back yard etc...).
Personally, I think this is a fairly good setup, especially considering the youth of the industry, and the scale of the safety issue CASA have to manage. Many are toys, but that does not mean they cannot seriously injure people. That is a fact. Your fun does not trump public safety, ever, especially the flying public. Never forget that.
Even our humble Solo + Gimbal + Gopro is deadly at anything over about 5m (If you disagree, I look forward to you posting a youtube video dropping it from half that height on your own head.).
Rather than complain about air safety, embrace the culture you are entering, it is waaay older than our multi-rotor drone scene, and they have been making really dangerous stuff surprisingly safe for almost as long. The regulators are not idiots, they are not in a scam to make money from your license fees, and they are genuinely concerned for everybody's safety. Respect is always returned in spades
Fly safe comrades.

 

[Rich]

Didn't the faa go after someone for only having YouTube monetization turned on, claiming YouTube made advertising dollars from their video?

I know this stunned the recreational fliers at the time, but I don't remember the final outcome.

 

[J. Paul Simeone]

Its all about the liability as well as the FAA laws with the 333 exemption you will be able to get the liability insurance to cover you.

 

[Burkeam]

"Know before you Fly" is what every UAV/drone/UAS operator should do. In this day of social media you can get caught-easily. Even years later. Go ahead and post it on the internet. I had this conversation today about a realtor wanting to pay only $100 for aerial photos, because that's what the other guy charged. I explained the cost of the aircraft, PIC pay , VO pay, Insurance, travel time, post editing time puts the base cost at $100 just to show up. He publishes his photos and is documenting that he is doing business with drones/UAV. I gave him this link.
FAA fines drone startup SkyPan $1.9 million for illegal drone flights - Fortune -check it out, a $1.9 million fine

If you do anything for pay and believe going about it a sneaky way will make you money. Please reconsider as it is going to become a great chance you will get caught. Get legal or get out so you don't cause an over regulated system for us pilots.

Finally why should I have to compete with someone that doesn't put up the effort, time and cost to become legit. Maybe making money with UAV isn't for everyone. Just saying.

 

[pyrate]

It is all about the taxes man, I think at some point the licensing will change. But you will need to be certified meaning passing a written and skills test. Then paying your annual renewal (TAX) will get you in the air and OK to charge for services. Right now its to risky to charge for it, those fines are nasty. Then there is this good old fashioned word of mouth bartering that could work. I will video your vacation rental condo for a discount?

 

[nexxypoo]

Burkeam I couldn't agree more, although I would suggest the reason people should follow the rules is not that they could be fined heavily, but rather that they could seriously injure or kill someone. Do you really want that on your conscience? I know I don't.

Pyrate, I couldn't disagree more. Asking for a fee for a service is not a tax. You really think the government is making good money out of your fees? Have you considered to cost of running the FAA? I'm sure your fees are a drop in the ocean.
I think you will find they consider "bartering" or offering service for service/discount as commercial activity.
With all due respect, it's time to grow up and be an adult about it. Do the tests, pay the fees, and join the aviation community.
Good luck

 

[Burkeam]

Burkeam I couldn't agree more, although I would suggest the reason people should follow the rules is not that they could be fined heavily, but rather that they could seriously injure or kill someone. Do you really want that on your conscience? I know I don't.

Pyrate, I couldn't disagree more. Asking for a fee for a service is not a tax. You really think the government is making good money out of your fees? Have you considered to cost of running the FAA? I'm sure your fees are a drop in the ocean.
I think you will find they consider "bartering" or offering service for service/discount as commercial activity.
With all due respect, it's time to grow up and be an adult about it. Do the tests, pay the fees, and join the aviation community.
Good luck

The fee so far have been pretty cheap.
Cost to file a 333 $0
Cost to reserve N#s, $10 per aircraft - i think
Cost to register the aircraft -$0
You spend more a year at any Secretary of State

nexx - agree about the safety over the fines. Was just trying to show there are real consequence financially for cutting corners and saving a few$.

 

[pyrate]

you are missing my point. One the taxes I speak of are not the fees you would receive from a customer. They are what you will pay the government to legally charge those fees.

The final word has not yet been spoken.
With the rise of number of people flying these things, new laws will come
Not talking about the current laws, though I think you have to have a licensed pilot in that process you are talking about, and that cost big money.

I have not filed for a 333, because I am betting that game is going to change and soon.
The government taxes ALL businesses. if you want to do it legally like the OP said. that means a business license in most places. Those licenses are collected for revenue my friend. and that is a tax

 

[Adimuzio513]

I have no issue paying a reasonable amount and being tested like the guidelines listed above, but to assume just cause you are a pilot of full sized aircrafts as a profession, those are the only people who should be allowed to monetize rc drones is ridiculous. They are two entirely different things and there are plenty of folks with way more experience flying a drone and better at it than a random pilot that decides I'm gonna do AP this week.

I respect that a pilot has a bit of a leg up starting, but that's it and if your dedicated enough to practice tons of hours and become great at what you do, you shouldn't have to pay ten grand and learn to fly something entirely different to make money. Yes a pilot has more to lose, but that shouldn't exclude anyone that didn't choose that career path. Yes restrictions are needed and I fully intend on waiting until I can legally do comercial work, but I'm not rich and it shouldn't only be the rich who get richer.

I mean seriously does anyone believe that to fly a drone safley you need the same training as a full sized aircraft? That's just ridiculous and even the FAA has to agree to that, it's a totally different animal with some similarities. Just like I don't need a License to drive an 18 wheeler cause I drive on the road with them, I shouldn't need a airmans permit for a plane or chopper to fly a drone in the air.

I just want some common sense used cause if someone needs all that training than AP work will never be an option for 90 percent of businesses or people, just cause the price will be way too much to be worthwhile. I respect anyone flying aircrafts and I'm in no way saying anything bad about pilots, but the rest of us willing to put in time, effort and money, as well as fly safe and responsibly should also have a chance.

 

[nexxypoo]

Firstly, I like paying taxes, they buy me civilization.
Secondly, I still maintain making this a gripe about fees for licensing because they're "evil taxes" is just silly. Come on fellaz, you know why they charge a fee, it's perfectly reasonable. So define your fees however you want, you still have to pay them.
You are correct, the laws will definitely change many times moving forward, but my prediction is they will not get more soft. They will get stricter, and if you want to waste your time and energy complaining that it's just not fair, you will be left behind. Thats a simple fact, sorry to tell you.

Adimuzio, I'm not sure if you were referring to me when you talk about a suggestion that only pilots should be allowed to control RPAS, that was not what I meant. All I said was, if you're a pilot then you will likely have already studied meteorology, the physics of flight, reading NOTAMs and other important information, as well as understand how to use an aviation radio, so that will mean you start ahead of the bunch and can probably just sit the test without doing the 2 weeks training they have here for n00bs. That's all. I don't think anyone should be precluded from getting a RPAS license, as long as they aren't cowboys who think the rules are there to be broken (and to be honest, after a few weeks on this forum, im pretty freaked out by how many cowboys there appear to be out there with drones... holy crap).

All professions have standards, that's why not just anyone can be a doctor, or a lawyer, or an accountant. You have to study, pass the exam, and show you know the rules and regulations. This is a profession, so it will have standards, and it's a good thing that the wheat gets separated from the chaff, for obvious reasons. If you can't play by the rules, maybe a different profession is for you.

Don't beat your head against this brick wall, it will not give way

 

[Adimuzio513]

Just how things were kinda sounding was all, I agree with all of the things mentioned about needing to change things so the cowboys don't ruin things. Wasn't at you just generally to the thread, but thanks for clarifying your points.

The guidelines mentioned from Australia seem to be pretty fair and since our countries also seem to be similar in many ways, hopefully our changes are something reasonable, but not easy like those seem to be. A middle ground is what I'm hoping for, I can put in the time and am happy to learn as much as needed and plan on more afterwards, my biggest hurdle would be money. I can't justify the money to get a full fledged pilots certification, just to hopefully do a bit of AP work. I'd love to do this as a profession and if it worked out great, but I just am not in a position to take that gamble with the amount I make for now. Maybe one day, but I'm hoping I have an opportunity before it comes to that.

Thanks folks don't let this get heated it's not worth it, we're here for fun and cool photography. Fly safe manned or unmanned fellas.

 

[nexxypoo]

Just how things were kinda sounding was all, I agree with all of the things mentioned about needing to change things so the cowboys don't ruin things. Wasn't at you just generally to the thread, but thanks for clarifying your points.

The guidelines mentioned from Australia seem to be pretty fair and since our countries also seem to be similar in many ways, hopefully our changes are something reasonable, but not easy like those seem to be. A middle ground is what I'm hoping for, I can put in the time and am happy to learn as much as needed and plan on more afterwards, my biggest hurdle would be money. I can't justify the money to get a full fledged pilots certification, just to hopefully do a bit of AP work. I'd love to do this as a profession and if it worked out great, but I just am not in a position to take that gamble with the amount I make for now. Maybe one day, but I'm hoping I have an opportunity before it comes to that.

Thanks folks don't let this get heated it's not worth it, we're here for fun and cool photography. Fly safe manned or unmanned fellas.

Mate I hear you.
Here (and probably there) you don't need a full pilots license, nor do you need to spend the sort of money it takes to get a full pilots license, you just have to do the theory component. it's not difficult, especially if you have half a brain. I did it myself remotely via online lectures, and sat the test. It cost me about AU$2,000 all up (about half that in US$). The solo + gimbal + gopro is a similar cost, so I don't see the fuss. If you have no money to get set up, then AP is not for you sorry. That's not being exclusive, that's just reality in a capitalist system. Of course if you want it all for free you'd have to consider that thing you Yanks are totally freaked out by (unnecessarily I might point out), socialism! (cue cliched scary music)

Agreed no need to get tetchy, but at the same time, one must call b#llsh!t when one sees or hears b#llsh!t.
Just sayin' ....

 

[Burkeam]

Just how things were kinda sounding was all, I agree with all of the things mentioned about needing to change things so the cowboys don't ruin things. Wasn't at you just generally to the thread, but thanks for clarifying your points.

The guidelines mentioned from Australia seem to be pretty fair and since our countries also seem to be similar in many ways, hopefully our changes are something reasonable, but not easy like those seem to be. A middle ground is what I'm hoping for, I can put in the time and am happy to learn as much as needed and plan on more afterwards, my biggest hurdle would be money. I can't justify the money to get a full fledged pilots certification, just to hopefully do a bit of AP work. I'd love to do this as a profession and if it worked out great, but I just am not in a position to take that gamble with the amount I make for now. Maybe one day, but I'm hoping I have an opportunity before it comes to that.

Thanks folks don't let this get heated it's not worth it, we're here for fun and cool photography. Fly safe manned or unmanned fellas.

From the conferences I've been too there will be a middle ground. In the mean time the standard is higher- having to be a pilot. The FAA agrees the time in aircraft does not equal a good UAS pilot. It is more that the UAS pilot understand they are flying an aircraft and thus there is a set of safety standards and flight rules to adhere to to maintain a safe mixed use airspace.

 

[Adimuzio513]

Mate I hear you.
Here (and probably there) you don't need a full pilots license, nor do you need to spend the sort of money it takes to get a full pilots license, you just have to do the theory component. it's not difficult, especially if you have half a brain. I did it myself remotely via online lectures, and sat the test. It cost me about AU$2,000 all up (about half that in US$). The solo + gimbal + gopro is a similar cost, so I don't see the fuss. If you have no money to get set up, then AP is not for you sorry. That's not being exclusive, that's just reality in a capitalist system. Of course if you want it all for free you'd have to consider that thing you Yanks are totally freaked out by (unnecessarily I might point out), socialism! (cue cliched scary music)

Agreed no need to get tetchy, but at the same time, one must call b#llsh!t when one sees or hears b#llsh!t.
Just sayin' ....

2 grand and what you'd mentioned before is fine, I mean I'm not begging for quarters here. Just from what I'd gathered here in the forum and on our FAA guidelines browsing through them an actual licensed pilot needs to be present to profit here. That's quite a task involving 8 to 10 grand easy from what I can tell. Hope your correct and if anybody knows different in the US I'd be happy to hear it. Everybody seems to agree that's a bit excessive for RC, 2 grand and the time involved will likley keep idiots out or make them decide not to do dumb things commercially, if not than they are likley those that 10 grand won't phase much either. Guess wel find out soon enough, everybody have a good day, evening, tomorrow or yesterday pending on where you are later guys.

 

[nexxypoo]

2 grand and what you'd mentioned before is fine, I mean I'm not begging for quarters here. Just from what I'd gathered here in the forum and on our FAA guidelines browsing through them an actual licensed pilot needs to be present to profit here. That's quite a task involving 8 to 10 grand easy from what I can tell. Hope your correct and if anybody knows different in the US I'd be happy to hear it. Everybody seems to agree that's a bit excessive for RC, 2 grand and the time involved will likley keep idiots out or make them decide not to do dumb things commercially, if not than they are likley those that 10 grand won't phase much either. Guess wel find out soon enough, everybody have a good day, evening, tomorrow or yesterday pending on where you are later guys.

Mate you still need an OC there to work under. So I have my Controllers Cert, but I still need to either setup a firm and get an OC for that business so i can operate under it, or find a business that wants to employ me and has an OC.
Sorry if I was misleading, but you cannot just go out, spend the $2k to get the CC and then go start making money. There are other hurdles to negate. Its not cheap, but then nothing about flying has ever been cheap lol.

 

[pyrate]

we actually all agree except I see paying a license fee is a form of a tax, its ok if you don't agree. I also am not opposed to paying it. I pay my PADI insurance every year and I pay my certification fees to scuba dive and its all good. I really don't see a way for this to move forward without some legislation. too many kids with toys flying these things and they can be a danger to others and to property. So sign me up

 

[nexxypoo]

So I just got to be careful and sneaky I guess.. Thanx man!

...this sort of comment totally freaks me out.

 

[Saturn13]

...this sort of comment totally freaks me out.

Yeah why u freaked out cuz I wanna make money and can't afford to do it legally ?