Read it and Weep......

[yt lee]

people on this forum will still defend the solo to the death.

I purchased two when they came out, one never flew (used as a tear down), one only flew to confirm the isues with Solo. This year, I purchased the bundle flew it couple time to check for improvement. Now all sit in storage. Do I regret the purchase, let me tell you my other purchases.

I once paid $1000 for a 5M diskdrive, $25,000 for a HP scope now not as good as the one I paid $300, I paid $30,000 for a IBM 386 PC with 20M RAM and 40M harddrive and OS/2. When you play with cutting edge technology, you need to have the mentality willing to pay what is worth at the time of purchase. If I waited, the price no doubt would come down, but I would miss the opportunity to use the technology to solve the problem I had at that time. It takes money to make money.

The initial Solo purchase was to select a drone for my business. The comparison lead us to other vendor. I believe the comparison justified the Solo purchase cost. The recent purchase was to decide if we want to have Solo as backup drone. Again, we decide not to because it will create logistic issue. We don't want to develop another version of software/firmware for Solo.

 

[User Name]

When you play with cutting edge technology, you need to have the mentality willing to pay what is worth at the time of purchase.

This is it, exactly. Every 3 to 4 years, I build a new workstation at a cost of between $5000 to $6000. When it comes time to build a new one, the old one is essentially worthless, but it enabled me to do my work during that time and paid for itself a dozens of times over. I've paid about $2500 for my 3 Solos and all the mods (extra batteries, replacing cables, GPSs in 2 of them, etc.). A few paying jobs will cover that cost, and then it'll be all profit.

Like you said, it takes money to make money.

 

[pyrate]

the conflict here lies in two user types. many of us chose solo to get into the UAV world, because we finally saw a vehicle that was focused on cinematography. we got it. we understood what solo was. we understood the two computers and smart shots made solo quite different. we saw an aerial dolly and crane.
Others saw solo as just another in the line of consumer drones and wanted it to go fast, do flips, basically be better than a phantom at being a phantom. sadly this type of user most likely out numbered those of us who got it for the first reason.
phantoms are better than solos for some things
solos are better than phantoms at some things
mavics and karmas the same.

I did not buy solo because it was the latest greatest thing in a category. I studied all the products on the market at the time and jumped in.
Over a year later, solo in my opinion is still the best <1500 cinema drone.
so while I get all the folks screaming doom and gloom. I also get that many of these people are not coming at UAVs the same way I am.

That means you have to hear a lot or that kind of irrelevant comments on a forum like this. The best way to stay focused and contributing is to turn off the people who are negative and either cannot or will not give solo its due no matter what

 

[Duncan Johnston]

Agree with everything above. And quite happy that this unfortunate turn of events has made snapping up spare Solos a great buying opportunity for the rest of us.

Also a huge mistake I believe 3DR made was their original price point; people seeing it listed at $1000 per copy (before gimbal, gopro, etc.) were probably initially put-off the idea of owning one. That was one reason I initially stayed out of the drone market, I was confident that market forces would eventually bring prices down, I just didn't expect those forces to ruin 3DR!

 

[pyrate]

that is why DJI was counting on the drone folks to do exactly what they did. unwittingly the DJI consumers were complicit in shooting the industry in the foot, and allowing one company to choke out innovation and competition. GE did the same thing to the appliance industry years ago. it is only just now recovering.


DJI is showing its mastery of killing off the market with Mavic and Karma. Their latest entry is hitting karma point for point, their next move will be to slash the price on Mavic at Christmas to choke off karma. and they will do to gopro what they did with solo using an uneducated consumer to get the job done

 

[mecummings.cr]

All the negative media attention about drones I think probably scared most parents away from buying something more than a toy drone eliminating a large market which I think hurts any company trying to sell a Solo, Phantom, etc. at Best Buy. When I was a teenager I am sure I would have ended up on the news for doing something stupid or perhaps out of a pure lack of experience and discipline if I had a Solo. If I had a teenager and the fact that I work in aviation, a Solo or any other quad would be the last thing I would want my kid to have unless he/she were flying it under my direct supervision. Solo went after the pseudo hobbyist/professional market and actually I believe they did a great service to the industries needing a reliable, cheap quad but while it's a big group, the product is still not mainstream. Even if you look at Sitescan, 3DR is selling it as a product where you draw a line around an area, set an altitude and like magic the copter flies the mission, post processes the data and pukes out a surface, contours, etc. In a perfect world that is great but what happens when the "Magic" fails and the copter doesn't behave as programmed? At the end of the day the remote pilot in command that holds the Part 107 license and the company paying that pilot to operate that Solo is on the hook for the liability. I do not believe the majority of companies will want to take that risk and while Sitescan may be the best easy to use application in the world they would be best to offer that package with an umbrella liability policy that covers your a$$ when that "Magic" fails just like they covered my Solo when the failing motor pod crashed my first Solo. I am not an insurance guy but I would think having built in umbrellla coverage as part of the Sitescan package (assuming the RPIC was pre-qualified) included could make Sitescan something that would encourage companies to be more willing to fork over the high cost of admission.

I really hope they succeed but I think 3DR has a tough road ahead of them as they are jumping into an arena where most of their customers are pretty tech capable and will likely solve their own technical problems on their own and with the support of groups like 3drpilots. It is a super interesting industry to watch and be a part of as a hobbyist and professional just scratching the surface of what Solo can do as a tool for my industry.

Now if I could just find a cheap thermal camera that would work for my Solo... sorry I digress

Best to everyone!

 

[twitchyzero]

I purchased two when they came out, one never flew (used as a tear down), one only flew to confirm the isues with Solo. This year, I purchased the bundle flew it couple time to check for improvement. Now all sit in storage. Do I regret the purchase, let me tell you my other purchases.

I once paid $1000 for a 5M diskdrive, $25,000 for a HP scope now not as good as the one I paid $300, I paid $30,000 for a IBM 386 PC with 20M RAM and 40M harddrive and OS/2. When you play with cutting edge technology, you need to have the mentality willing to pay what is worth at the time of purchase. If I waited, the price no doubt would come down, but I would miss the opportunity to use the technology to solve the problem I had at that time. It takes money to make money.

The initial Solo purchase was to select a drone for my business. The comparison lead us to other vendor. I believe the comparison justified the Solo purchase cost. The recent purchase was to decide if we want to have Solo as backup drone. Again, we decide not to because it will create logistic issue. We don't want to develop another version of software/firmware for Solo.

only difference is those companies didn't deceive you first then abandoned you.
you might not care much about $1900 for a Solo package at launch because you're using it as a revenue generator, the majority of us are hobbyists that can't help but to feel the burn.

 

[twitchyzero]

All the negative media attention about drones I think probably scared most parents away from buying something more than a toy drone eliminating a large market which I think hurts any company trying to sell a Solo, Phantom, etc. at Best Buy. When I was a teenager I am sure I would have ended up on the news for doing something stupid or perhaps out of a pure lack of experience and discipline if I had a Solo. If I had a teenager and the fact that I work in aviation, a Solo or any other quad would be the last thing I would want my kid to have unless he/she were flying it under my direct supervision.

yeap that's a good thing. I hope UAV remaining around the $1000+ entry point so it's prohibitive to most

the more mainstream they are = more idiots flying them = our hobby is more likely to be ruined.

 

[freewheel_steve]

I am very sad to hear of this new. I just finished reading Chris Anderson's book Makers, The New Industrial Revolution, where he writes about how he started 3D Robotics. I purchased a Solo ealrier this year to get into aerial video and photography as I am in the corporate video business. I have been very pleased with the performance of Solo and the support from 3D Robotics. I think a better business model would be to sell the hardware at a lower cost and sell updates to the software of a subscription based software. Much the same as the software companies are doing now like Adobe etc. I use sony Vegas and every year I purchase an upgrade and so do many other professionals who are committed to this software. This is what provides the company with a reliable revenue stream on top of new customer sales. I don't know the business model 3D Robotocis is using for their enterprise customers but it is probably selling software and updates. They should do something similar with Solo for the consumer market and partner with a Chinese firm to develop and sell the hardware.This would force them to be really innovative in creating more advanced software for the platform.

 

[Freebird32]

I've got a few of these Solos. If a fire sale happens, I'll buy a few more. Solidly engineered, flies great, parts available (even if I have to cannibalize my own spare drones) the 'open' architecture will allow support from 3rd party wrt software (and hardware for that matter). Plenty of GoPro cameras available to use with them. Maybe we will see another (inexpensive) camera or another gimbal from 3rd party. I paid full going price for the first, but not for the most recent ones, so I don't feel bad. They all updated OK, they all work fine, no issues, no GPS flyaway, I can't complain. I think I got my money's worth. If I decide to chase the bleeding edge, I'll buy a Mavic or Karma, but I will probably wait for the prices to drop at Christmas or later, when the next gen pushes them out of the way. Mavic isn't without issues. CaseyNeistat (youtube guy with 3M subscribers) managed to lose his Mavic, IMHO a klutz with technical gadgets, what does that do for potential sales? What if it had been a 3DR Solo early on? You pay your money and you take your chances. I agree it is a hobby for most of us, but it is really FUN. Bring on the sales!
I don't disagree with cheap=more idiots flying, but that is out of my control. Not sure hobby will be ruined, hobby will evolve/change, it might be a passing fad for most of them. I've been flying R/C safely for over 45 years. I'm more afraid of the idiots they've let loose in cars these days. They keep adding technology to protect the stupid, sort of undermines Darwin's law....

 

[rassalas]

If they delayed the launch of solo until the gimbal was complete, I think we'd be looking at a different 3DR right now. I think that single point was the biggest failure and set the tone. Bad press for months until the gimbal came out, and when they did it the software was buggy and DJI hit them with a double whammy by dropping prices. Due to those 2 main things, they were never able to get any sort of real traction in the market. After refusing to sell 3dr to DJI just before the solo launch (that's interesting), they should have known that DJI would come at them hard, and the only real way to do that is via pricing. To DJI, it was about the same options. They could buy 3dr and spend money that way, or drop prices and basically spend money that way by not getting as much and driving another nail in 3dr's coffin. 3DR should have anticipated that and dropped prices a bit more than they were initially planning. To the Chinese, business is an art like war, and they treat it like war. They don't just go away after you don't sell to them. That's just the "let's see if they will surrender before we attack".

If you look back at Colin's comments from the time, He said something like 'When we watched the footage, we thought it was good but not cinematic quality, due to some jitteryness, the gimbal was unable to filter out.' Then he went on to say we tried to correct it with software but in the end decided to add some weights. So basically they could have released it with the weights like it was from the beginning. With all due respects to the weights, after adding them to my gimbal (and tightening them well,) with the Hero 4 Silver as recommended, I was horrified to find a few weeks later that the bottom one had loosened and fallen somewhere during flight. At that point I removed both the top and bottom ones and never put them back. For the Hero 4 Black camera the weights were not recommended. Looking back, sitting in my Monday quarterbacking chair, I think they should have released the gimbal with drone on schedule, and damned the torpedos, and just said if you want top quality footage, just use the hero 4 black. It might have take a couple extra days delay to come to that decision, but there was the flaw, they had an apple fanboy calling the engineering shots.

 

[RichWest]

Is there a summary

Rather than a writer's opinion, I'll just relay the quotes...

“What we realized is that it’s just going to be inherently much more difficult for a Silicon Valley-based, software-focused company to compete against vertically integrated powerhouse manufacturing company in China,” said Colin Guinn, 3D Robotics’ former chief revenue officer, who departed in September.

In an interview last month, Anderson declined to discuss his company’s financial situation, but said that 3D Robotics was now solely focused on enterprise software.

“We exited hardware and we exited consumer partly because it was a tough market,” he said. “DJI is an amazing company and lots of people got pounded." “It was just brutal.”

“I’d never seen a market with price declines like that,” said Anderson. “Everybody other than DJI lost.”

“We’re not making anymore Solos and we’re not going to make another drone,” said Anderson, who suggested that 3D Robotics would start developing software for other drone makers. “I love the idea of other companies making hardware so we don’t have to and we can focus on the software and services side. We’re a Silicon Valley company and we’re supposed to be doing software and there are Chinese companies that are supposed to be doing hardware.”

 

[rassalas]

I am very sad to hear of this new. I just finished reading Chris Anderson's book Makers, The New Industrial Revolution, where he writes about how he started 3D Robotics. I purchased a Solo ealrier this year to get into aerial video and photography as I am in the corporate video business. I have been very pleased with the performance of Solo and the support from 3D Robotics. I think a better business model would be to sell the hardware at a lower cost and sell updates to the software of a subscription based software. Much the same as the software companies are doing now like Adobe etc. I use sony Vegas and every year I purchase an upgrade and so do many other professionals who are committed to this software. This is what provides the company with a reliable revenue stream on top of new customer sales. I don't know the business model 3D Robotocis is using for their enterprise customers but it is probably selling software and updates. They should do something similar with Solo for the consumer market and partner with a Chinese firm to develop and sell the hardware.This would force them to be really innovative in creating more advanced software for the platform.

One thing should be noted, They pushed out a new software update recently on the android side of things solving a lot of little naggly issues. It does show that someone cared enough to finish their work despite the huns approaching at the gates.

 

[User Name]

If you look back at Colin's comments from the time, He said something like 'When we watched the footage, we thought it was good but not cinematic quality, due to some jitteryness, the gimbal was unable to filter out.'

I'm really shocked that Solo was released with the absurdly stiff cables (hdmi and data) to the gimbal. Anyone knows that you want to use the softest wires possible to any component that you want isolated from vibrations. The "moon gel" mod attempts to solve this, as far as I can tell, by cushioning the entire main board AND it's stiff cables. I've made small data cable extensions for the data cables on mine, and a new hdmi cable out of the softest, high strand count silicon wire I could find, and this has reduced the micro vibrations to an almost unnoticeable level. I think the only thing left is the prop wash from the front right motor hitting the gimbal arm. I may try to make a small shield, but honestly, with the cables addressed, I'm not sure it's worth it.

This and the poor GPS performance really didn't do themselves any favors. Both were obvious and easily solved. This is a perfect example of being confronted with a problem and just sticking your head in the sand.

The market is unforgiving, and the Solo was 95% perfect, but that missed 5% gave people the ability to dump all over it.

Here's my cables, if anyone is interested in doing the same.

View media item 408

 

[RichWest]

It might have take a couple extra days delay to come to that decision, but there was the flaw, they had an apple fanboy calling the engineering shots.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't... Everything in hindsight will be scrutinized when things go wrong, it's human nature to place blame.

A lot was learned from the experience and a great many people learned not to show up to a gun fight with just a knife....

I'm actual tired of the blame going to either Anderson or Guinn, I place no blame on them solely. There were 350+ others that participated in the Solo revenue stream. A question to ask themselves, in hindsight, what could they have been done better or said louder? The Solo experience is such an immense education, I'm envious by being on the outer fringe of the opportunity to have learned what they did.

Here's my cables, if anyone is interested in doing the same.

I may be a kook about the vibes, but like you I'm willing to share my experiences in hopes that someone will glean an idea from my progressions. The lack of trying is the waste of a perfectly good mind.

 

[SARDG]

...in the end decided to add some weights. So basically they could have released it with the weights like it was from the beginning. With all due respects to the weights, after adding them to my gimbal (and tightening them well,) with the Hero 4 Silver as recommended, I was horrified to find a few weeks later that the bottom one had loosened and fallen somewhere during flight. At that point I removed both the top and bottom ones and never put them back...

A drop of Loctite Blue (releasable) would have cured your problem. A small tube is in my field kit in case things need to come apart in the field, the Loctite-necessary ones can go back with Loctite.

 

[Marich]

A drop of Loctite Blue (releasable) would have cured your problem. A small tube is in my field kit in case things need to come apart in the field, the Loctite-necessary ones can go back with Loctite.

+1 - LocTite is a miracle worker.

 

[Mauiwind]

It's amazing to read how so many have the answer(s) about what shoulda or coulda happened. What no one except the core players know is the process whereby the decisions were made.
I don't have any answers and certainly I don't pretend to. But I have some questions: (As a stakeholder in 3DR by way of owning 4 Solos, I feel I have a level of qualification to ask some questions)

Where was the company at When Mr. Anderson declined the DJI offer?
What were the terms?
Why did Mr. Anderson make the decision to decline the offer? What was he seeing?

Upon whose shoulder was it to know about production chain in China?
What were the factors that led to the decision to release the product with no gimbal?
How was that decision justified?

What was Mr. Anderson telling the venture capital when projections didn't pan out?
How did Mr. Anderson manage to get more capital after initial investments went south?

You'll notice that I mention Chris Anderson CEO in all these questions. The buck stopped with him. Colin Guinn didn't finalize any decision, nor should have any employees. Everything was (and is) Mr. Anderson's final responsibility.

My sense, knowing as little as I do, is that in the final analysis, Mr. Anderson was a visionary with a very compelling pitch. He knew how to direct the advertising, or he found someone he approved of. (and without question, it was the advertising/PR that was part of the brilliance and yet undoing of the company.) I believe that Mr. Anderson bought into his own pitch and felt that 3DR had a destiny beyond what the market forces, competition, production savvy, and limited capital would allow. But then, if he didn't believe in a bright future, he probably couldn't have sold a bright future.

Who tells a giant like DJI to "Go home?" Who says, "It's OK with no gimbal, we can bluff our way through this?" Who, when faced with the factors known in advance, hustles together a hundred or so million, then tells the investors, "Sorry, I guess enthusiasm wasn't enough?"

I was rooting for 3DR because it was an American company and we all knew who the competition was. Honestly, I'm somewhat disheartened that an American company got its butt kicked by a Chinese company.This isn't just a failure of a drone company, it's a failure of American business in the global playing field.

Anyone want to invest in 3DR? (I didn't think so.)

 

[User Name]

I don't have any answers and certainly I don't pretend to. But I have some questions:

Like others, I can only speculate as well, but to me it seems the biggest mistake was in the production of so many units. 100,000 units at a manufacturing cost of $750 each equals $75 million - 3/4 of the 100 million they raised. Had they not misjudged demand so badly, they'd likely have been able to weather the storm. The Solo is still a compelling, competitive platform even against the upcoming generation, despite what a few trolls might suggest.

The article states that they had smaller and larger versions planned, so they were on the right track in where the market interest was - larger could have been an Inspire competitor, and one only needs to look at the glowing press the Mavic is getting to see that a smaller one would have been popular.

The other issues could have gone both ways - releasing the Solo without the gimbal gave people the time to get used to the software/control system, and shake out any bugs. Maybe not the best choice, but that itself shouldn't have been, and I don't think was, a game-over type mistake.

Turning down DJI's offer? Maybe that would have made the investors happy to get a quick return on their investment, but it would have all but certainly ended everything. DJI's interest was likely a simple means of burying a competitor. They have their own flight controllers, and the open source nature of Arducopter wouldn't fit in there - the same issues that caused the split between them and DroneCode would have happened at DJI. So in the end, the investors would have made money, anything Solo related would have likely never seen the light of day, and we'd all be flying Phantoms. With that probable outcome, I think making an attempt at going it along was the right one. It didn't ultimately work, but not for the sole reason of having tried.

Anyway, as has been said... water under the bridge. Maybe you were saying it off handed, but simply purchasing a produce doesn't make one a stakeholder in a company in any legal sense, I just hope you weren't holding out for official company responses to your questions!

In all likelihood, the actual investors aren't even demanding questions. Investing is a risk, and they go into each one knowing it stands a decent chance of failing. The money to be made if just one out of 10 succeeds is sufficient to cover a loss on the others. Drones were all the rage, and investors were probably looking at it like the smartphone industry in the early days - thinking it would take off. When the FAA regulations threw a big pale of cold water on the industry, they probably chalked it up as a loss right there and forgot all about it.

 

[kneel23]

My first Solo going on almost 1.5 years old has still never had a single issue, never even broken a prop. I picked up an extra Solo bundle last month due to the super-low price. Adding on a pixpro and a FLIR thermal imaging gimbal and camera make this quite versatile, and hopefully people will still build other stuff. If 3DR wasn't so mismanaged they could have continued on in spite of DJI.