New Solo Production ?

[bluesgeek]

"The cow did all the work?"
I bet Chef Ramsey would, um, disagree with you about that.

I suppose the chef here would be Jason Short. We just take credit for the great shots!

 

[pyrate]

Solo is far from " a rock solid product "

Name one that is

 

[erikgraham]

** Regarding baro, are you saying that flying low to the ground is not using GPS for maintaining height, but relying on baro? If so, at what height is GPS positioning reliable? (I not understand how the two work together.)

GPS is only used for position (x and y), not altitude (z). Barometers are much more accurate for maintaining altitude. But the one weakness of barometers is that they are subject to atmospheric pressure changes. When you take off, the Solo's barometer measures atmospheric pressure and sets that as 0 altitude. As you go up pressure decreases, which the barometer detects and then converts to a change in altitude. If a storm is rolling in (i.e. a low pressure front) then the Solo will think that it has gone up in altitude (because it detects the lower pressure). Now what was 0 altitude in terms of pressure may now actually be the equivalent of 10 feet below what was zero. This doesn't happen much because the chances of atmospheric pressure rapidly changing during a 15 minute flight are low... but it can happen, so you just need to watch out for it. Be aware of the weather around you. Be ready to hit the fly or pause button and throttle UP.

The Solo (and most drones) use a barometer for altitude, GPS for x and y position, an IMU to keep the bird level, and a compas to tell it orientation. All those sensors work in concert with one another. Some drones also have SONAR or laser range finders to assist the barometer in maintaining altitude... but those sensors only work fairly close to the ground. Some drones also use something called optical flow to help maintain x and y position, but also only when close enough to the ground - at higher altitudes they must rely solely on the GPS to keep track of x and y position. Whether using GPS or optical flow for x and y position, a compas is still need to tell the drone orientation (gps tells it where it is on the map, but not which way it's pointed).

Yes, the shot would have been more tasteful and dramatic at a slower speed. I was flying that at full speed just to see how it dependable the software tracking would be.

I didn't mean the shot should be slower for artistic reasons, I was just saying that after you create a cable cam, you should test it going slow the first time to make sure the cable is safe. Then test a little faster once or twice until your confident there are no surprises in your cable cam. Actually, I find a lot of drone video to be slow and kind of boring. I prefer the faster runs like yours... it just looked a bit risky so I wanted to give you heads up in case you try to run the same cable and it crashes into the ground on the way over to the dirt pile.

In fact on a subsequent run of the same cable, Solo jumped the track and kept going in one direction. Tech support said it was probably due to the magnetic interference they were seeing. (I was pretty close to utilities and large earth moving machines, so I can buy that.)

It's plausible. Magnetic interference screws up the compass. Let's say the drone thinks it's flying north according to its compass reading, but due to magnetic interference it's actually flying slightly north-west. After a couple seconds, based on the GPS data, the solo realizes it's not where it's supposed to be and tries to correct by drifting east... but since the compass is a little off, it doesn't go directly east so once again GPS position doesn't match where it thinks it should be and it tries to correct again. This can snowball and cause the kind of issue you had. That's why you need to be careful flying around bridges, big construction equipment and power lines. But you don't have to go crazy with it and stay 100 feet back. The magnetic interference dies out exponentially as you move away (inverse square law). So 15 or 20 feet from a normal power line should have no effect on your compass.

Erik, it's the power button that's sticking for me, and I think it is powering down the controller... and sometimes preventing it from completing the power off cycle. It hasn't happened in mid-flight, but it has happened just as I was getting ready to fly. The pinky trick isn't likely to serve me well if controller powers off when Solo is in the air.

Yeah, I have a sticky power button too on one controller. Basically I power it up, then immediately use my fingernail to unstick it. Then I just never hit the power button during flight.

 

[fpvsteve]

that takes a lot of balls to fly solo so close to subjects/ground
it can drift easily....I would keep at least 25ft away from objects....I try not to fly below 60ft

LOL - certainly not needed if you can fly. ;-)

 

[bluesgeek]

This doesn't happen much because the chances of atmospheric pressure rapidly changing during a 15 minute flight are low... but it can happen, so you just need to watch out for it. Be aware of the weather around you. Be ready to hit the fly or pause button and throttle UP.

Very good to know (thanks for taking the time to elaborate so) as I get ready to go up high when storms roll in, to get shots of distant cloudbursts.

...after you create a cable cam, you should test it going slow the first time to make sure the cable is safe... I wanted to give you heads up in case you try to run the same cable and it crashes into the ground on the way over to the dirt pile.

Well this certainly is good advice and explains why when I ran the same cable on a subsequent day, Solo seemed to drive a lot lower to the ground.

It's plausible. Magnetic interference screws up the compass. Let's say the drone thinks it's flying north according to its compass reading, but due to magnetic interference it's actually flying slightly north-west. After a couple seconds, based on the GPS data, the solo realizes it's not where it's supposed to be and tries to correct by drifting east... but since the compass is a little off, it doesn't go directly east so once again GPS position doesn't match where it thinks it should be and it tries to correct again. This can snowball and cause the kind of issue you had.

Almost learned that the hard way. I was running the cable back and forth with the stick (to test repeatability of this marvelous function) and stopped paying attention, only to find Solo flying off backwards into a field 30 yards from the designated path. Now I never take my eyes off it, except for my furtive glances in the monitor for FPV.

Related to that last point, I really see the value of having a trained spotter watching LOS for obstacles, especially as the pilot's attention is on fine gimbal moves when flying high and close to objects (treetops, and geological and manmade structures). I've done that kind of shooting already and I feel that I compromise my movement when I take my eyes off the monitor but I compromise safety when I take my eyes off the vehicle.

 

[bluesgeek]

Some drones also have SONAR or laser range finders to assist the barometer in maintaining altitude... but those sensors only work fairly close to the ground. Some drones also use something called optical flow to help maintain x and y position, but also only when close enough to the ground - at higher altitudes they must rely solely on the GPS to keep track of x and y position.

Erik, to revisit this point, perhaps I would be better served with advanced positioning sensing from a different bird (DJI, DIY Ardu, Autel) for low-fly in-close shooting like the first and last shots of this test clip, and save (literally, preserve) Solo for higher flight smart shots?

3DR tech support is already cautioning me to avoid this type of shooting, but I plan to do a lot of it, and may wish to include some quasi-indoor shooting through gardens. It appears to carry significant risk, even for a experienced flyer—which I am not. (I can tell you it was scary working inches from trees and stone walls.)

 

[erikgraham]

Erik, to revisit this point, perhaps I would be better served with advanced positioning sensing from a different bird (DJI, DIY Ardu, Autel) for low-fly in-close shooting like the first and last shots of this test clip, and save (literally, preserve) Solo for higher flight smart shots?

3DR tech support is already cautioning me to avoid this type of shooting, but I plan to do a lot of it, and may wish to include some quasi-indoor shooting through gardens. It appears to carry significant risk, even for a experienced flyer—which I am not. (I can tell you it was scary working inches from trees and stone walls.)

Yeah. I'm afraid you might have to go that route for the quasi indoor stuff. It's a shame because there was an optical flow unit for Solo that worked, but they never released it.

Having said that, for the type of flying you did in the video, the Solo is really your only option. As a new user, it would pretty much be impossible to capture a video like that with any other drone. Solo's Cable Cam is still the best game in town for that stuff. Most people will correctly advise you not to fly so close to the ground or near objects. They are correct. My advice would be to keep doing what your doing, but just be careful and aware. Follow the tips we discussed - especially the one about testing your cables slowly and cautiously first. Never try it around people.

Also, find a big open field to practice flying without GPS (Fly:Manual) so you can save yourself if GPS reception is poor.

 

[bluesgeek]

Yeah. I'm afraid you might have to go that route for the quasi indoor stuff.

As you can see, I've been just now reaching that sad opinion.

Having said that, for the type of flying you did in the video, the Solo is really your only option. As a new user, it would pretty much be impossible to capture a video like that with any other drone. Solo's Cable Cam is still the best game in town for that stuff.

To be clear, no smart shot was used. The opening and closing shots were FLY Manual because I could not hold GPS position. Any attempts at FLY GPS under low tree cover were near disastrous as Solo would fly agressively 20-30 feet away from where she was flown (while maintaining 10-12 sats and good HDOP).

All the other shots were FLY GPS. I can see where smart shots could come in handy to refine those higher flights for more cinematic results.

I could add that the tilt preset buttons (85-45 10 sec) were used to easily get the first FLY Manual shot, freeing the attention for flying and framing. That's a useful function and I would suggest development to allow for multiple presets—or some way to get a 3rd position (straight down, for example) without having to make changes in Solo app settings.

Thank you for your advice, Erik.

 

[erikgraham]

To be clear, no smart shot was used. The opening and closing shots were FLY Manual because I could not hold GPS position.

Oh wait. Then I got confused. I thought that video from post #28 above was a Cable Cam.

 

[bluesgeek]

Oh wait. Then I got confused. I thought that video from post #28 above was a Cable Cam.

My bad. Post 28 was one MPCC shot. That was a pure demo.

The questions I've been asking pertain to what I was trying to accomplish with the park clip (post 46). I had hoped that I would have been able to set up the 1st and last shots under the trees with MPCC, but I soon discovered that GPS positioning was so unreliable in that type of location as to make any GPS flying prohibitive... never mind smart shots.

This experience plus learning that GPS does not provide any navigational support for altitude anyway (so both GPS Fly and Manual FLY rely on baro and other assist technologies) has me reconsidering the ideal machine for these low and close shots—not that I want at all to make a second purchase.

 

[jhnp]

I think dji phantom 4 vision positioning is impressive

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[bluesgeek]

I think dji phantom 4 vision positioning is impressive

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Thank you. That's quite a demo if it really does work that way.

 

[erikgraham]

My bad. Post 28 was one MPCC shot. That was a pure demo.

The questions I've been asking pertain to what I was trying to accomplish with the park clip (post 46).

Ahh. Ok. I got confused there. I must have skimmed through that post 46 and kept thinking we were talking about the earlier clip. So, actually, my bad. Oops.

I had hoped that I would have been able to set up the 1st and last shots under the trees with MPCC, but I soon discovered that GPS positioning was so unreliable in that type of location as to make any GPS flying prohibitive... never mind smart shots.

This experience plus learning that GPS does not provide any navigational support for altitude anyway (so both GPS Fly and Manual FLY rely on baro and other assist technologies) has me reconsidering the ideal machine for these low and close shots—not that I want at all to make a second purchase.

For low and close or indoors or under trees, then the P4 is the best option (unless you go with a Matrice 100 with a Guidence module). The Yuneec typhoon H with Intel realsense (only available for pre-order) should be far superior to the P4 in terms of low/close/no GPS performance, but the camera isn't as good (there's some debate about this).

And yet, none of those are as good as the Solo for smart shots (well, specifically Cable Cam). You can get close, but nothing as easy, quick, smooth.

Even the active track follow mode on the P4 is kind of crappy. When it does manage to follow, it's very herky-jerky (noticeable yaw corrections). Haven't tried follow me on an H, but it appears smoother and on par with the Solo (and works with an accessory that's easy to put in your pocket).

And of course all smart shots rely on GPS, so regardless of which platform you go with, you won't have smart shots for the low/close/no GPS situations.

Oh. One other thing, though it pains me to admit it. The P4 camera is better than a GoPro Hero 4 Black. Better quality, easier to color grade in post, better in flight controls.

For what it's worth, I'm sticking with the Solo for the multi point cable cam, which trumps all the other advantages of the P4/Typhoon H, in my opinion (and for what I like to shoot).

Since you can get a suitable cable cam on the P4 with third party apps like litchi, AND the P4 has the best camera (vs typhoon H and GoPro), and it has optical flow and rudimentary (very rudimentary) obstacle avoidance, then it's probably the right drone for you. Hopefully I don't get crucified for saying that on these boards.

 

[bluesgeek]

Thank you, Erik.

I agree with everthing you say, and you lay out a very good overview based on information widely known (IMHO) on the board.

At the same time, I think that I am going to stay with Solo for where she excells (smart shots that can be quickly and easily obtained on a location), and add P4 to the mix.

P4 is not without significant issues, and it will be good to have an option to go to on a job if I run into problems with one platform. That's where I stand today. I'll report back on my decisions.

Matrice 100 with Guidance? Maybe next year.

 

[Maddog]

Erik, nothing wrong with an unbiased factual review.

 

[George]

Here's a snipit of the discussion Chris had with a user regarding Solo.


Does 3DR plan to keep selling consumer grade AP/AV quadcopters, or once existing stock is gone, Solo is done? I think many, including myself, would eventually like to see a version 2. Maybe larger, better flight times. Don't want to see the yearly release schedule, like some companies do, but after 2-3 years a version 2 with more/better hardware would be nice.

Answer from CA:



John: Now that that FAA commercial regs are in place and the cloud side of our stack is out and performing well, we're accelerating our move to 100% enterprise. The plummeting price points and competition on the consumer side makes that market uneconomic for anything other than the biggest consumer electronics companies (and maybe even for them) so you won't see additional *consumer* vehicles from us directly. But from our partners, who knows? ;-)

Obviously Solo was a disappointment from a sales pov. They had way higher hopes for it. This explains why they are downsizing, they very well can't have a dedicated team for solo when the sales don't justify it. But Imo they will continue support and develop the current solo but on a much smaller scale, they may even hand it off to another company.? It's too bad we won't ever see a Solo 2.

Regardless I just picked up my first Solo, will not arrive until August, but I'm so excited. I've been flying an Iris+ for the past 2 years (zero complaints ...I love it) and can't wait to get my hands on this drone!

 

[Rusty Jones]

i'm not a pro by any stretch
but obviously gopro is only used because...well Solo only accepts GoPro for video work
fisheye and the lack of IS and shutter control automatically means it's a toy
if there's a gimbal for 1"/MFT/APSC sensored camera, the gopro would be dropped immediately for anyone that wants to take their videos seriously
the sony equivalent and heck even the Yi 4K for half of H4 Black's price is a superior product. Hero4 is getting long in the tooth.

i think many of us would wanna fly octo and toss the gopro in the trash...but the cost and licensing concern are major barriers.

Not bad work for a "Toy"

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The 2nd shot in the field at night was tight, too tight for the other drone on set, however the first shot, the overhead shot when the mortar round goes off, Orbit was used. Plenty of room up thee for the "real" drone, yet Solo was used .

 

[Ed Beck]

The 2nd shot in the field at night was tight, too tight for the other drone on set, however the first shot, the overhead shot when the mortar round goes off, Orbit was used. Plenty of room up thee for the "real" drone, yet Solo was used .

He said it was because of the explosion and actors on set made having the larger drone close way too risky. Probably because it could have been damaged and fell on the actors.

The larger drone was up, but it was further from the set.

Looking at it that way, Solo is certainly expendable.

 

[twitchyzero]

Not bad work for a "Toy"
the first shot, the overhead shot when the mortar round goes off, Orbit was used. Plenty of room up thee for the "real" drone, yet Solo was used .

hard to tell with Youtube compression...fairly blurry on both shots. I'll have to watch the movie in uncompressed Full HD to judge.

I'm not trying to discredit Solo's smart shots for first shot, we're simply evaluating GoPro's IQ.

 

[Lars Malm]

So I have read on this board that there has only been 1 production run of Solo parts and all Solos are assembled from that stock. If You order from Amazon today they expect delivery with-in 2 months. How big is that stock pile of parts? Maybe a new production run? Or just trying to use up the inventory from over predicting market share?

So sorry.... Well its manufactured in China and I don't now how many 3dr is ordering every time. But from one batch it is likely that it runs out.