KDE direct motors on solo?

n01kn0ws · Apr 25, 2016

Hi All,

Do any of you have any information if 3dr will use in near future kde direct motros?
I heard that kde motors has 3 bearings and they need to be replaced after 300hr of fly time

If this is true then kde motors are more reliable comparing to stock solo motors (80 hrs - solo, 300 hrs - kde)

For example - KDE2315XF-885 Brushless Motor for Electric Multi-Rotor (sUAS) Series

SPP · Apr 25, 2016

Hi 01,
Read this article.
I think KDE is over-selling itself.
KDE vs T-Motor -- Picking a Motor Based on Spec Sheets

n01kn0ws · Apr 25, 2016

I'm referring to triple bearing approach and working temperature exactly

SPP · Apr 25, 2016

Well I guess you must try it and we wait for ur report ..

n01kn0ws · Apr 25, 2016

Sure, I'm open for donation!

Dmitry · Apr 25, 2016

The KDE2315XF Brushless Motor Series has now arrived, available in three Kv editions: 885Kv, 965Kv, and 2050Kv. The KDE2315XF-885 and KDE2315XF-965 were specifically designed as high-efficiency and high-performance replacements for the DJI 2312 and DJI 2212 series motors, and are directly compatibly with the Phantom 2, Phantom 3, 3DR Solo, and other popular aerial-photography quadcopters. The motors are the highest-quality available for the 550-class and smaller sUAS multi-rotors, and now shipping worldwide!

SPP · Apr 25, 2016

01,
Sounds reasonable....if you can provide test data like how RolandS888 did and has the tools to verify the data.
Motors Swapped to T-Motor 2216-12 800kV

n01kn0ws · Apr 25, 2016

Dmitry said:
The KDE2315XF Brushless Motor Series has now arrived, available in three Kv editions: 885Kv, 965Kv, and 2050Kv. The KDE2315XF-885 and KDE2315XF-965 were specifically designed as high-efficiency and high-performance replacements for the DJI 2312 and DJI 2212 series motors, and are directly compatibly with the Phantom 2, Phantom 3, 3DR Solo, and other popular aerial-photography quadcopters. The motors are the highest-quality available for the 550-class and smaller sUAS multi-rotors, and now shipping worldwide!

Thx for your input.
Do you know if 885Kv will fit to the solo motor pods without any drilling and existing screw holes will fit KDE motors?

RichWest · Apr 25, 2016

The factory motor bolt pattern is 16/19mm. KDE seems to offer this bolt pattern. The question would be where the motor leads orient once the motors are mounted in the stock pod.

I fail to see where a triple bearing would lengthen service life. Further the added bearing would be a source of added friction, reducing an efficient running.

I'd like to see real world testing as well.

Maddog · Apr 25, 2016

n01kn0ws said:
Hi All,

Do any of you have any information if 3dr will use in near future kde direct motros?
I heard that kde motors has 3 bearings and they need to be replaced after 300hr of fly time
If this is true then kde motors are more reliable comparing to stock solo motors (80 hrs - solo, 300 hrs - kde)

For example - KDE2315XF-885 Brushless Motor for Electric Multi-Rotor (sUAS) Series

Given the current financial status of 3DR and their shift away from the consumer drone market to commercial/industrial, I wouldn't look for any major changes to Solo.

Hard to tell if Solo as we know it will survive.

pyrate · Apr 25, 2016

no major changes?
if you cannot see changes, then you may be right for you
for some of us solo is still advancing every day

Maddog · Apr 27, 2016

Motor swapping has been discussed here at length. Does anybody really know if past motor failures have actually been caused by the motor or the ESC?

Upgrading motors to improve performance is a great idea. If you're hoping to prevent a failure, a motor swap might not help if the ESC is the problem.

Seem like the ESC is more likely to fail than the motor.

Is it possible for a crappy motor to cause the ESC to fail?

Inquiring minds want to know..

Flashy · Apr 27, 2016

I don't think this motors fit with solo..
Mount Pattern M3 x ф19 mm, M2.5 x ф16 mm, M3 x ф16/19 mm
Stator Class 2315, 0.2 mm Japanese
Shaft Diameter ф4 mm (ф4 mm Internal)
Shaft Length 3.5 mm
Motor Diameter ф28.3 mm
Motor Length 28.5 mm

maybe someone can test it, but I think the pods are to small for this motors..

RolandS888 · Apr 27, 2016

Maddog said:
Motor swapping has been discussed here at length. Does anybody really know if past motor failures have actually been caused by the motor or the ESC?

Upgrading motors to improve performance is a great idea. If you're hoping to prevent a failure, a motor swap might not help if the ESC is the problem.

Seem like the ESC is more likely to fail than the motor.

Is it possible for a crappy motor to cause the ESC to fail?

Inquiring minds want to know..

Yes it is possible for a 'crappy' motor to take out an ESC if the motor is binding up or has locked (prop banged into something) the current will go above (or spike to well above) the amp rating of mosfet that is switching power to the motor, and burn it out.
9 times out of ten (IMO) if the ESC is found to be burnt out after a crash, the motor is responsible for the failure of the ESC,
Usually the ESC is still trying to power the motor while crash or imact is happening, the props is locked and this overloads the ESC and burns it out.
The mosfets used in a well designed ESC usually have a current rating well above what is required for the normal usage. So long as cooling is adequate there is no reason for a mosfet to burn out for no reason.

Flashy said:
I don't think this motors fit with solo..
Mount Pattern M3 x ф19 mm, M2.5 x ф16 mm, M3 x ф16/19 mm
Stator Class 2315, 0.2 mm Japanese
Shaft Diameter ф4 mm (ф4 mm Internal)
Shaft Length 3.5 mm
Motor Diameter ф28.3 mm
Motor Length 28.5 mm

maybe someone can test it, but I think the pods are to small for this motors..

It will probably fit. It is less than 1mm wider than the T-motor mod detailed elsewhere.
Im sure it could be made to fit.
Triple bearing is a good thing as it will have 2 bearings under the prop, sharing the sideways load.
Larger motors usually have a double bearing at the top of the motor, its good to finally see a smaller motor with that.
Specs show it is not as tall as the Tmotors.
FWIW I like the look of the KDE, I like KDE MR motors in general, but I think that the benefit against a Tmotor motor change in a Solo would be minimal.
Changing to either motor is a step up from the original stock SunnyT motor

RichWest · Apr 28, 2016

RolandS888 said:
Triple bearing is a good thing as it will have 2 bearings under the prop, sharing the sideways load.

This seems strange for me to say and with respect, but I disagree with you. Maybe I'm not seeing the big picture for side loading. Either way, for this size motor, friction of the added bearing would have some negative impact in performance. I guess I need to read up further to change my opinion.

Flashy · Apr 28, 2016

let's say what motors would fit, is it needed to adjust the PID values?

RolandS888 · Apr 28, 2016

RichWest said:
This seems strange for me to say and with respect, but I disagree with you. Maybe I'm not seeing the big picture for side loading. Either way, for this size motor, friction of the added bearing would have some negative impact in performance. I guess I need to read up further to change my opinion.

Thats fine Rich. The added 'friction' is absolutely negligible as each bearing is only loaded by half the amount anway as they now share the load. The double front bearing also adds to overall shaft stability and bearing life for the same reason.
In brushless motors, the design usually dictates that a smaller bearing must be used in the front as there is less room for a bearing because it is inside the stator windings.
This is the area of highest bearing load, when the copter is changing direction the prop load is held almost solely by this bearing. The bearing at the other end of the shaft is just there to stabilize the shaft.

With the front bearing having to 'do all the work' a larger bearing is preferable to distribute the load to a larger area, but this is not possible due to size constraints, but there is room along the shaft further into the motor, so a second bearing alongside can be used to share the load.

KDE are really good motors. Its awesome that they are leading the way and make a motor of this size with the double front bearing. They previously had nothing in this motor size. The double front bearing is an absolute bonus and will increase reliability overall.

A better quality motor can overcome the noise and vibes we see in the stock motors (the Tmotor mod) and a double front bearing will extend the life of the motor even further.
The main reason I did the Tmotor mod was for a reliability increase, and noise/vibe reduction. If another level of reliability increase is available I would take it, and the KDE with the double front bearing offers that.

The figures on the spec sheet look very good too. (if they can be believed of course)

If I was to turn back time with the Tmotor change mod, I would seriously consider the KDE motor.
I may still 'evolove' the mod and test these as the efficiency figures look very good too.
From what I see and read (and hear from friends who are industry professionals who swear by KDEs) I like them a lot. (and no, I dont have shares in KDE)