GPS Vs Non GPS for New Pilots

Nystrom Productions · Jul 20, 2015

Thanks for the amazing post and content, I have about 11 flights under my belt. I did not prepare like I should have when I bought my drone so the very first flight I flew manual not really even thinking it would be difficult. Also didn't help I was in my backyard! Crashed into my tree and over a few fences into a neighbors yard and it turned upside down. Put it away that night and went to start up in the morning and prop 3 was clicking and it wouldn't fire. Blew out the motor pod after taking it out and putting it back in. Called 3DR and while I was being transferred to an engineer it finally started up but not only did it start up motor pod 3 started on fire. Smoke and a small flame it was kinda wild since I was in my kitchen haha. Anyways after I disconnected battery and got someone from 3DR on the line they had me remove motor pod 3. Solo then started up and worked like it should. However my controller wouldn't pair with the solo, just kept saying waiting for solo. So after a factory reset we finally got it to pair but after a power off and on again it wouldn't pair unless we did the factory reset process again. So needless to say they wanted me to RMA the whole unit. 2 weeks later I got it back, tested and verified by 3DR staff, replaced motor pod and controller. Have flown 10 batteries since Friday and loving every min. I have been staying in GPS mode 100% of the time just so I can get the basics down and the feel. I really appreciate this video however and the wisdom from someone that has been flying as long as you. I am still a ways from Manual mode but this sheds exactly the light I was looking for on Manual mode and makes perfect sense. Thanks again!

Nick

Raybro · Jul 20, 2015

Get out in the wide open with plenty of altitude then flip it over to manual. If it's not windy you probably won't be able to tell the difference. You start getting nervous, flip it back to fly mode.
I'm working my way up. I have flown too much with GPS and forgot what it's like to fly manual. When I first started, I flew a little Syma and really had fun with it. What a difference GPS makes, so like I said, it's kind of spoiled me.
I want to get the manual down then move up to the next level and eventually sport and acro......hopefully....

Jubalr · Jul 20, 2015

Nystrom Productions said:
Thanks for the amazing post and content, I have about 11 flights under my belt. I did not prepare like I should have when I bought my drone so the very first flight I flew manual not really even thinking it would be difficult. Also didn't help I was in my backyard! Crashed into my tree and over a few fences into a neighbors yard and it turned upside down. Put it away that night and went to start up in the morning and prop 3 was clicking and it wouldn't fire. Blew out the motor pod after taking it out and putting it back in. Called 3DR and while I was being transferred to an engineer it finally started up but not only did it start up motor pod 3 started on fire. Smoke and a small flame it was kinda wild since I was in my kitchen haha. Anyways after I disconnected battery and got someone from 3DR on the line they had me remove motor pod 3. Solo then started up and worked like it should. However my controller wouldn't pair with the solo, just kept saying waiting for solo. So after a factory reset we finally got it to pair but after a power off and on again it wouldn't pair unless we did the factory reset process again. So needless to say they wanted me to RMA the whole unit. 2 weeks later I got it back, tested and verified by 3DR staff, replaced motor pod and controller. Have flown 10 batteries since Friday and loving every min. I have been staying in GPS mode 100% of the time just so I can get the basics down and the feel. I really appreciate this video however and the wisdom from someone that has been flying as long as you. I am still a ways from Manual mode but this sheds exactly the light I was looking for on Manual mode and makes perfect sense. Thanks again!

Nick

You're very welcome Nick! Take it slow and build your confidence and you will enjoy flying more.
Fly Safe..
Jubal

Sampson · Jul 21, 2015

Great stuff, thanks for the confidence booster! The names of the flight modes seem a bit counter-intuitive in that "manual" would be full manual controls including altitude and positioning. I would have thought "stabilize" would be the option for alt. hold with manual positioning.
Thanks again for the clarification.

Jubalr · Jul 21, 2015

Sampson said:
Great stuff, thanks for the confidence booster! The names of the flight modes seem a bit counter-intuitive in that "manual" would be full manual controls including altitude and positioning. I would have thought "stabilize" would be the option for alt. hold with manual positioning.
Thanks again for the clarification.

Sure thing. I had the same thoughts about the naming conventions used for the Solo, which are different than using Pixhawk in another bird. I would have thought the Manual would have been completely manual, and not Alt Hold too.

prowler9 · Jul 22, 2015

Great video!!! I will try the diff modes next time I get to the open field.

Had a question though. If you take off in manual mode what happens if you lose connection? Since GPS isn't on will it know where to return to home?

Jubalr · Jul 22, 2015

prowler9 said:
Great video!!! I will try the diff modes next time I get to the open field.

Had a question though. If you take off in manual mode what happens if you lose connection? Since GPS isn't on will it know where to return to home?

If you want to wait for GPS lock before you take off and then switch to manual, it's no problem as home has been established. You can't turn GPS 'Off', you just aren't using it. You can switch back to GPS modes while flying.

Ian [P13] · Jul 22, 2015

Sampson said:
The names of the flight modes seem a bit counter-intuitive in that "manual" would be full manual controls including altitude and positioning. I would have thought "stabilize" would be the option for alt. hold with manual positioning..

An easy way to remember them is this graphic...

rrmccabe · Jul 22, 2015

LMAO Ian.

prowler9 · Jul 24, 2015

Well I flew in manual for the first time today.. Not as worried anymore with gps. I took off with the fly button flipped over to manual and all was good. Will try stabilize here in a little while

Jubalr · Jul 24, 2015

prowler9 said:
Well I flew in manual for the first time today.. Not as worried anymore with gps. I took off with the fly button flipped over to manual and all was good. Will try stabilize here in a little while

Good Job Prowler.. Remember on stabilize, you need to maintain altitude yourself. Hit full throttle a couple of time and check out the response compared to manual..

Rsfitz · Jul 24, 2015

Tonight for some reason it was taking a long time to find satellites. Had waiting for GPS on the controller. Very overcast tonight with storm clouds, not sure if that had something to do with it as it usually finds 10 to 12 satellites fairly quickly. Best I got tonight was 7. Thanks to some of you guys I took off and flew in manual mode. Took it easy and I will need to practice. But not that bad. Had no gps at all for quite some time. Thanks for the posts to help out those of us who are new to flying drones.

rrmccabe · Jul 24, 2015

Overcast should not effect GPS. Keep flying manual. It will save you some day.

Raybro · Jul 24, 2015

Rsfitz said:
Tonight for some reason it was taking a long time to find satellites. Had waiting for GPS on the controller. Very overcast tonight with storm clouds, not sure if that had something to do with it as it usually finds 10 to 12 satellites fairly quickly. Best I got tonight was 7. Thanks to some of you guys I took off and flew in manual mode. Took it easy and I will need to practice. But not that bad. Had no gps at all for quite some time. Thanks for the posts to help out those of us who are new to flying drones.

Good deal! When you get manual down, graduate to stabilize.

CliffWarner · Jul 24, 2015

Brand new here and my solo is my first quad as well. Interestingly, I was playing around with some of these modes tonight on my 5th flight, and just now found this thread. Thanks for the explanation. My experience was just as you described. The drift mode is also kind of interesting. I am working on my piloting skills in a very large field not too far from my house. lots of fun so far, each day I have been flying further and trying additional things.

Raybro · Jul 25, 2015

CliffWarner said:
Brand new here and my solo is my first quad as well. Interestingly, I was playing around with some of these modes tonight on my 5th flight, and just now found this thread. Thanks for the explanation. My experience was just as you described. The drift mode is also kind of interesting. I am working on my piloting skills in a very large field not too far from my house. lots of fun so far, each day I have been flying further and trying additional things.

Glad you found us!
Great news, glad you are enjoying it! I am as well!
It's good to have those skills and not rely so much on GPS. I'm still in practice mode myself.

Sampson · Jul 25, 2015

I also got out and flew manual today. This was my 5th solo flight and everything went well although it did drift much more than I had anticipated. There was the slightest breeze and solo kept drifting back towards me so I input constant forward pitch to counter that. At one point I was concerned that it was the result of a level calibration/gyro error because I did rotate it 180° and it seemed to drift slightly the other direction. The breeze was a little swirly so it could just be me being paranoid. I would like to get out in the open on a windless day and really go balls out with this mode. It seems like it will be fun once I get the hang of it.

Jubalr · Jul 25, 2015

Good job Sampson! Take it easy and find a place with lots of room. You will enjoy manual and it's fun to be the pilot and not rely on GPS..
Fly Safe..
Jubal

rrmccabe · Jul 26, 2015

OK jumping from the antenna thread back to here. Was testing the DBS antenna and was out past 5500 and kept hitting RTH for some reason. So hit fly and turned it around towards home. Hit my manual mode button and full stick forward.

I must have been into a slight headwind returning as 45 mph as as fast as it would go. I think I have by performance cranked but need to verify that.

Anyway, in manual mode at 45 mph the Solo will lose 100' in elevation in 8 seconds. I experienced similar behavior with my first solo. So in manual for me it would be quite easy to fly this thing into the ground with full stick forward.

I am guessing its related to the speed. I need to retest and feather the stick back to 30mph and see what it does.

Jubalr · Jul 26, 2015

rrmccabe said:
OK jumping from the antenna thread back to here. Was testing the DBS antenna and was out past 5500 and kept hitting RTH for some reason. So hit fly and turned it around towards home. Hit my manual mode button and full stick forward.

I must have been into a slight headwind returning as 45 mph as as fast as it would go. I think I have by performance cranked but need to verify that.

Anyway, in manual mode at 45 mph the Solo will lose 100' in elevation in 8 seconds. I experienced similar behavior with my first solo. So in manual for me it would be quite easy to fly this thing into the ground with full stick forward.

I am guessing its related to the speed. I need to retest and feather the stick back to 30mph and see what it does.

Rich, how far does it take to start descending? Although, one max speed is reached it shouldn't matter. I was actually testing this today. I would go out to about 1200' and haul butt back. But I was only hitting 40mph the way it is set up. But I would haul back as fast as I could then do some yank and bank around the field. No matter what I did I couldn't get it to vary height by more than 2-3'. I was actually flying and looking at the screen the whole time. On the antenna tests, I would come back at full stick to start the next one and each time it came back it was at the same altitude.

The fact that yours is losing altitude brings up some interesting questions. For instance; Alt Hold (manual) is a very basic function of the Pixhawk, and it is basing your altitude from a number derived by the barometer. So unless there is a basic barometric pressure difference as you fly home, it is still just a number like GPS. Let's say you pitch full forward for 200' and lose 20' and then hover. Then Alt hold should rise back up to the original altitude. If not, then the barometer is telling the controller that it is still at the original altitude and has a problem. To lose 100' is a tremendous difference and would point to a bad sensor. Maybe you could look at your flash logs and graph alt_error and GPS alttude vs Bar?

Edit: Just found this....http://ardupilot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=7458