First impression of Solo

[SPP]

Hi Guys,

Just to share a newbie point of view.
So finally I flew my Solo last saturday to help a friend take photo of his home build progress from aerial point of view.

I stop flying my Phantom 1 original some years ago. I was never good at "directions" when flying a drone.

Those were the days with no video feed radio link to do FPV and the GoPro gimbal was obscene at US$700 or so. So its was basically flying for fun. I ruined 2 Phantoms in the process of the learning curve.

I read this forum info hours and hours, trying to absorb the do and don't for Solo. Thanks to all.

I updated to latest firmware and etc etc.
I have Set A button as MANUAL and B button as FLY
I took off MANUAL, as I have always been doing so on the Phantom 1 because I need to clear some of the structure where I took off from. The house roof top that is.

When I feel "safe", only then I switch to B ( FLY-AUTO ).

Indeed it is sad that Solo only use GPS sats and not in combo with the GLOSNASS, while the M7N Ublox chip is actually capable of receiving GLOSNASS. I already got the Solo GPS locked in my home and still needed like 3+ minutes to get GPS locked and ready to fly approval from Solo at my friend's house roof top.
Almanac wise, the GPS memory would still have it and distance wise from my house to friend's house direct line of sight is only 13 kilometers ( 8 mile ). So technically I would have a not so cold start.

Where I am based, if a GNSS chip is capable of receiving GPS + GLOSNASS, 12-19 sats used and 24-32 available is the norm. More sat if the chip is SBAS ready. SBAS are correctional sats by a few countries, in USA its WAAS.

This is from a Samsung El-Cheapo phone <US$150 retail in good clear sky,
I got USA GPS, Russian GLOSNASS and Chinese Beidou, #41 is Indian GAGAN correctional sat and #42 & #50 is Japanese MSAS correctional sat.

All correctional sats are geosynchronous, meaning they are placed at the Equator, so me lucky for being within +-7* north/east of the Equator.


To those who is not familiar with GPS assigned numbers which they call PRN ( Pseudorandom Noise Code ), here is the list. USA GPS is up to No 32. Correctional Sats ( all kinds ) 33 to 51. GLOSNASS get 65 to 88.
Chinese Beidou 201-235

GarminOregon6xx - Satellites
NMEA IDs · mvglasow/satstat Wiki · GitHub

When the sweet lady of Solo voiced out "Ready to fly", I have 8 sats locked.
Upon hovering to 17 meters height above a 3 storey height of the house, I got 9 sats locked and finally I got 10 sats locked. There was some unknown screw-up when I downloaded the DataFlash Log, it recorded GPS failure for number of Sats.

See the 8 sats locked, then 9 and then 10. But there is a red bar on top of graph which said Err FAILSAVE_RADIO-0 even when I had 8 sats locked. In auto analysis that is called a : Test GPS = FAIL.
I got more sats while at 17+ meters higher because to the north-east and east of my friend's house there are 4 apartment towers with at least 20 storey height if not more.


It is probably some glitch when Pixhawk recorded or complile the BIN file...me dunno, this is all new to me.

Anyway, what I want to say is :
Since I come from Phantom 1 experience ( probably 2 generation away from today's better tech ), I never seen such stability for loiter of position hold on AUTO,whatever 3DR call the term..........what a Solo can offer now,..... it is freakin' awesome !!! For me it is awesome.

The days was raining, so I got to cut short doing other SMART MOVE and only managed 15 minutes flight at best. The simultor indeed help me a great deal to be on track again with the controller joystick. I been not fyling drone for too long and is getting rusty... he he he.

Here is a graphic view of the flight.



.


.



.



.


Overall I am pleased with the Solo.

End of Report.
.

 

[Ian [P13]]

While the M7N Ublox can receive GLONASS it can only do GPS or GLONASS, not both at once, to do both systems you need a wideband antenna and that in turn picks up more noise, so then you need to design a larger ground plate and add filtering.

So there's a lot of involved with getting GPS to perform at its best.

 

[Solo Keith]

Hi Guys,

Just to share a newbie point of view.
So finally I flew my Solo last saturday to help a friend take photo of his home build progress from aerial point of view.

I stop flying my Phantom 1 original some years ago. I was never good at "directions" when flying a drone.

Those were the days with no video feed radio link to do FPV and the GoPro gimbal was obscene at US$700 or so. So its was basically flying for fun. I ruined 2 Phantoms in the process of the learning curve.

I read this forum info hours and hours, trying to absorb the do and don't for Solo. Thanks to all.

I updated to latest firmware and etc etc.
I have Set A button as MANUAL and B button as FLY
I took off MANUAL, as I have always been doing so on the Phantom 1 because I need to clear some of the structure where I took off from. The house roof top that is.

When I feel "safe", only then I switch to B ( FLY-AUTO ).

Indeed it is sad that Solo only use GPS sats and not in combo with the GLOSNASS, while the M7N Ublox chip is actually capable of receiving GLOSNASS. I already got the Solo GPS locked in my home and still needed like 3+ minutes to get GPS locked and ready to fly approval from Solo at my friend's house roof top.
Almanac wise, the GPS memory would still have it and distance wise from my house to friend's house direct line of sight is only 13 kilometers ( 8 mile ). So technically I would have a not so cold start.

Where I am based, if a GNSS chip is capable of receiving GPS + GLOSNASS, 12-19 sats used and 24-32 available is the norm. More sat if the chip is SBAS ready. SBAS are correctional sats by a few countries, in USA its WAAS.

This is from a Samsung El-Cheapo phone <US$150 retail in good clear sky,
I got USA GPS, Russian GLOSNASS and Chinese Beidou, #41 is Indian GAGAN correctional sat and #42 & #50 is Japanese MSAS correctional sat.

All correctional sats are geosynchronous, meaning they are placed at the Equator, so me lucky for being within +-7* north/east of the Equator.
View attachment 2641

To those who is not familiar with GPS assigned numbers which they call PRN ( Pseudorandom Noise Code ), here is the list. USA GPS is up to No 32. Correctional Sats ( all kinds ) 33 to 51. GLOSNASS get 65 to 88.
Chinese Beidou 201-235

GarminOregon6xx - Satellites
NMEA IDs · mvglasow/satstat Wiki · GitHub

When the sweet lady of Solo voiced out "Ready to fly", I have 8 sats locked.
Upon hovering to 17 meters height above a 3 storey height of the house, I got 9 sats locked and finally I got 10 sats locked. There was some unknown screw-up when I downloaded the DataFlash Log, it recorded GPS failure for number of Sats.

See the 8 sats locked, then 9 and then 10. But there is a red bar on top of graph which said Err FAILSAVE_RADIO-0 even when I had 8 sats locked. In auto analysis that is called a : Test GPS = FAIL.
I got more sats while at 17+ meters higher because to the north-east and east of my friend's house there are 4 apartment towers with at least 20 storey height if not more.
View attachment 2642

It is probably some glitch when Pixhawk recorded or complile the BIN file...me dunno, this is all new to me.

Anyway, what I want to say is :
Since I come from Phantom 1 experience ( probably 2 generation away from today's better tech ), I never seen such stability for loiter of position hold on AUTO,whatever 3DR call the term..........what a Solo can offer now,..... it is freakin' awesome !!! For me it is awesome.

The days was raining, so I got to cut short doing other SMART MOVE and only managed 15 minutes flight at best. The simultor indeed help me a great deal to be on track again with the controller joystick. I been not fyling drone for too long and is getting rusty... he he he.

Here is a graphic view of the flight.
View attachment 2643


.
View attachment 2644

.
View attachment 2645


.
View attachment 2646


.
View attachment 2647

Overall I am pleased with the Solo.

End of Report.
.

Welcome to the SOLO world.

 

[SPP]

Thanks Ian, noted on the wide-band antena requirement and the extra noise. I will need to learn more of that.

Hi too Keith

 

[Maddog]

Welcome SPP! Pressing the "FLY" button will always return you to "FLY-GPS" mode, so you could reassign your "B" button to something else if you like.

Where do you call home?

 

[Toiletbowl]

so what best gps module recommendation to replace the stock one?

 

[Adimuzio513]

Welcome to the forum, after looking over your post even if you are a newbie to solo you obviosly have some other experience in areas that will be great to have here on the forum. Glad to have you here and congratulations on the new bird. I'm sure you'll find 3drpilots to be a great place to share and learn everything about solo as I have. Fly safe

 

[SPP]

Hello M-Dog,
I am in Jakarta, Indonesia.
We own Bali .... he he he
Yes, me trying to change my oldie Phantom operational mind set. Since Solo is all AUTO I get kind of scared it may go banana ..LOL.

Hi T-Bowl,
I been reading on GPS module but its already beaten to death in this forum.
I think we must wait for 3DR to decide , after proper test, if they want to change to other better chip.
Neo7 is already a high sensitivity GPS chip actually.

Hi A-513,
I play a lot with GPS and sometime when I get involved in bathymetry survey, note : I am not an engineer of any sort....LOL.... however I get to see contractors using precision GPS with 20 cm accuracy by paying for correctional signal and surely using extra correctional hardware. Not that I know about GPS 100% but I know location shift/drift is common and this is what suprise me that Solo can maintain its position so good using civilian GPS.

If my reading and understanding of the log is correct, Solo does not program its GPS chip to allow SBAS correction satellite useage. This is good and not good...depends, not good for not taking advantage if correctional sattelites are in good view and with strong signal. Good if correctional sats are very low over the horizon with not so good signal.

3DR Solo take away the learning curve a lot for newbie flyer like me, two thumbs up for 3DR.
No way I can do photo and video this easy all by myself while flying a drone, if Solo is not this stable and smart.

However, there is a big HOWEVER..........
Users must also understand the limitation of GPS and its signal to our Solo.
We hope the GPS signal is always good 100% of the time, but that is not the case.
There are times maintenance and down time do occur on the GPS, weather related disturbances and most importantly users must understand GPS signal does not go thru building or trees, sometimes we do get reflection of the signal called multi-path and this is "dirty" and misleading, making poor accuracy. In a home where one see GPS signals indoor, many come from the multi-path. In my home it is all concrete and two floors and so are my neighbours, me can never get GPS signal indoor even close to a window. Many USA homes uses wood plenty, decently sized garden outdoor ( open field ) and one can sometime get GPS signal when near a window.

I captain dive boats often looking for small wrecks, 25-35 meters off is the norm for GPS in my region after year 2000 . It was an older model Garmins and used. I gone thru Sat-Nav days prior to GPS existing and I seen Magellan first handheld GPS, so big and US$3,000. Its a miracle for me those days.
Commerical GPS Turns 25: How the Unwanted Military Tech Found Its True Calling
If there is any old man in this forum who ever uses Loran-C prior to GPS days, they will swear that 100 meters accuracy at sea is GOD sent already back then.

In year 2000, Bill Clinton killed the Selective Availibility on the GPS signal and allow us civilian to get more "accurate" signal. Prior to this, 200-500 meters off is not unusual when USA is in "war mode" and mess with the civilian GPS data.


So when I see Solo is so GPS dependent, and remove much of the training needed to control it by using advance computers and algo, we must maintain the understanding that all this is NOT possible unless the GPS signal is decently good, consistent and accurate.

I seen some Solo test videos where it shows, users DO NOT understand GPS limitation and still expect Solo to do all the magic and then blame the Solo when things go south..

In my opinion, Solo is not a toy, it is an advance flying electronic device which today becomes affordable and accessible to many. Once accessible to many, that's where and when shi-et happens because the technology is taken for granted.


Time is your friend for any GPS data to be more accurate.
The longer one allows the GPS to get lock while being static, accuracy improve over time.
Below is from a Columbus V-900 logger. U can google this GPS logger. It can receive SBAS correctional sats.


This is at my house, with building blocking sats on west and south side.
Yellow line is reference line for 4.6 meters of length.
Total logging is 37.5 minutes.
White line is when the correctional sats not locked yet, so it is not DGPS mode ( differential GPS aka SBAS assisted ) but SPS ( standard positioning service ).

Over time the accuracy get better.
The lines represent a static position with logging interval of 1 second.
But since no civilian nor paid GNSS system is 1mm accuracy, every few seconds the reported position changes and that is where I draw the colored lines to represent the position drift/change over time.
This is all are static readings, logger stay put.

I speak of D-GPS because before WAAS exist in USA, GPS can use land based radio transmission from US Coast Guard assisted transmission of correctional signal...yep by radio. So the GPS unit is special, it has a separate radio receiver sniffing on 285 kHz and 325 kHz.
NDGPS General Information



Imagine for SOLO, which is moving. It is not easy to get super accurate reading or it is challenging to smooth out the position data even at 10hz ( 10 logging per second ) logging rate. The faster the vehicle move, the more challenging the positioning accuracy will be.

So I am into a new learning curve if I am to allow Solo to do its magic totally automatic.
I mean I know what can go wrong from the GPS signal/data itself
My 1st flight, I land and take off manual...because I can not yet verify how good the GPS signal in my friend's area. Its was narrrow at the roof top and it is risky. It was after long rain and the barometric pressure swing seems decent/low.

I still need to find open field and test the Solo more.
GPS sats circle our earth, so no test can actually be replicated to be 100% the same if the time and location is different. Me want to look for the average for my area.

Later,
SPP

 

[Rich]

If there is any old man in this forum who ever uses Loran-C prior to GPS days, they will swear that 100 meters accuracy at sea is GOD sent already back then.

Actually yes, I am this old man! My second or third job in my electronics career was to write the software for the controller for the LORAN-C transmitters. I also had a lot to do with designing and implementing the first LORAN-C based non-precision aircraft approach monitor system for an air traffic control tower. I did a lot of work on the little box with a red/green light that would turn red and sound an alarm if the LORAN-C signal would drift out of tolerance so the control tower could alert an aircraft on approach not to trust the LORAN position report.

I remember the first commercial GPS receiver I ever saw, it was about the size of a large microwave oven, 19 inches wide, and cost over $30K USD each!

It's good to see someone that understands a bit of the complexities involved in getting positional fixes!

 

[SPP]

he he he, Hello Rich...
Glad to have someone like you in the forum who understand way better on how lucky we are today with cheap positioning accuracy. I was born in 1967, so me quite old today.

I guess you have seen DEC mainframes VAX11 family in the 80s which were popular for scientific application and will laugh when recalling a CDC 300MB hard disk the size of small car tyre ...LOL.

My country first Palapa satellite were controlled by PDP-11 from DEC too.

 

[Maddog]

so what best gps module recommendation to replace the stock one?

I don't know if it's the best, but I installed the M8N. I'm happy with it- faster acquisition and normally get 16- 20 sats. I know this doesn't necessarily mean "better" but it works for me. Here's the YouTube mod. video:

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[Maddog]

Hello M-Dog,
I am in Jakarta, Indonesia.
We own Bali .... he he he
Yes, me trying to change my oldie Phantom operational mind set. Since Solo is all AUTO I get kind of scared it may go banana ..LOL.

Hi T-Bowl,
I been reading on GPS module but its already beaten to death in this forum.
I think we must wait for 3DR to decide , after proper test, if they want to change to other better chip.
Neo7 is already a high sensitivity GPS chip actually.

Hi A-513,
I play a lot with GPS and sometime when I get involved in bathymetry survey, note : I am not an engineer of any sort....LOL.... however I get to see contractors using precision GPS with 20 cm accuracy by paying for correctional signal and surely using extra correctional hardware. Not that I know about GPS 100% but I know location shift/drift is common and this is what suprise me that Solo can maintain its position so good using civilian GPS.

If my reading and understanding of the log is correct, Solo does not program its GPS chip to allow SBAS correction satellite useage. This is good and not good...depends, not good for not taking advantage if correctional sattelites are in good view and with strong signal. Good if correctional sats are very low over the horizon with not so good signal.

3DR Solo take away the learning curve a lot for newbie flyer like me, two thumbs up for 3DR.
No way I can do photo and video this easy all by myself while flying a drone, if Solo is not this stable and smart.

However, there is a big HOWEVER..........
Users must also understand the limitation of GPS and its signal to our Solo.
We hope the GPS signal is always good 100% of the time, but that is not the case.
There are times maintenance and down time do occur on the GPS, weather related disturbances and most importantly users must understand GPS signal does not go thru building or trees, sometimes we do get reflection of the signal called multi-path and this is "dirty" and misleading, making poor accuracy. In a home where one see GPS signals indoor, many come from the multi-path. In my home it is all concrete and two floors and so are my neighbours, me can never get GPS signal indoor even close to a window. Many USA homes uses wood plenty, decently sized garden outdoor ( open field ) and one can sometime get GPS signal when near a window.

I captain dive boats often looking for small wrecks, 25-35 meters off is the norm for GPS in my region after year 2000 . It was an older model Garmins and used. I gone thru Sat-Nav days prior to GPS existing and I seen Magellan first handheld GPS, so big and US$3,000. Its a miracle for me those days.
Commerical GPS Turns 25: How the Unwanted Military Tech Found Its True Calling
If there is any old man in this forum who ever uses Loran-C prior to GPS days, they will swear that 100 meters accuracy at sea is GOD sent already back then.

In year 2000, Bill Clinton killed the Selective Availibility on the GPS signal and allow us civilian to get more "accurate" signal. Prior to this, 200-500 meters off is not unusual when USA is in "war mode" and mess with the civilian GPS data.


So when I see Solo is so GPS dependent, and remove much of the training needed to control it by using advance computers and algo, we must maintain the understanding that all this is NOT possible unless the GPS signal is decently good, consistent and accurate.

I seen some Solo test videos where it shows, users DO NOT understand GPS limitation and still expect Solo to do all the magic and then blame the Solo when things go south..

In my opinion, Solo is not a toy, it is an advance flying electronic device which today becomes affordable and accessible to many. Once accessible to many, that's where and when shi-et happens because the technology is taken for granted.


Time is your friend for any GPS data to be more accurate.
The longer one allows the GPS to get lock while being static, accuracy improve over time.
Below is from a Columbus V-900 logger. U can google this GPS logger. It can receive SBAS correctional sats.
View attachment 2656

This is at my house, with building blocking sats on west and south side.
Yellow line is reference line for 4.6 meters of length.
Total logging is 37.5 minutes.
White line is when the correctional sats not locked yet, so it is not DGPS mode ( differential GPS aka SBAS assisted ) but SPS ( standard positioning service ).

Over time the accuracy get better.
The lines represent a static position with logging interval of 1 second.
But since no civilian nor paid GNSS system is 1mm accuracy, every few seconds the reported position changes and that is where I draw the colored lines to represent the position drift/change over time.
This is all are static readings, logger stay put.

I speak of D-GPS because before WAAS exist in USA, GPS can use land based radio transmission from US Coast Guard assisted transmission of correctional signal...yep by radio. So the GPS unit is special, it has a separate radio receiver sniffing on 285 kHz and 325 kHz.
NDGPS General Information



Imagine for SOLO, which is moving. It is not easy to get super accurate reading or it is challenging to smooth out the position data even at 10hz ( 10 logging per second ) logging rate. The faster the vehicle move, the more challenging the positioning accuracy will be.

So I am into a new learning curve if I am to allow Solo to do its magic totally automatic.
I mean I know what can go wrong from the GPS signal/data itself
My 1st flight, I land and take off manual...because I can not yet verify how good the GPS signal in my friend's area. Its was narrrow at the roof top and it is risky. It was after long rain and the barometric pressure swing seems decent/low.

I still need to find open field and test the Solo more.
GPS sats circle our earth, so no test can actually be replicated to be 100% the same if the time and location is different. Me want to look for the average for my area.

Later,
SPP

I got my pilots license in 1988 and if you had LORAN-C in your plane then, you were really hot-s**t.

 

[Rich]

he he he, Hello Rich...
Glad to have someone like you in the forum who understand way better on how lucky we are today with cheap positioning accuracy. I was born in 1967, so me quite old today.

I guess you have seen DEC mainframes VAX11 family in the 80s which were popular for scientific application and will laugh when recalling a CDC 300MB hard disk the size of small car tyre ...LOL.

My country first Palapa satellite were controlled by PDP-11 from DEC too.

I've a decade more than you in this stuff, so I'm sure we could tell some stories!

The first coding I ever did was with a 1 MHZ 6800 that had 1 or 2KB of RAM, not GHz but MHz, and not MB but KB! Kids today can't appreciate what they have at their fingertips, and I'm sure that their kids will say the same thing to their children!

 

[Mr_Chris]

I've a decade more than you in this stuff, so I'm sure we could tell some stories!

The first coding I ever did was with a 1 MHZ 6800 that had 1 or 2KB of RAM, not GHz but MHz, and not MB but KB! Kids today can't appreciate what they have at their fingertips, and I'm sure that their kids will say the same thing to their children!

Set the panel switches, double check, then STORE. Next.. next next .. .. .. .. boot! nerrrrrrrr you must have made a mistake. You need a cool punched tape reader to boot easily! What? Magnetic tape? What?!? Floppy disks?... What, I don't have to flip the floppies anymore? What, that "XT" is a hard drive that's smaller than a cake-cover? etc.. we live in a golden age.

 

[J R]

Set the panel switches, double check, then STORE. Next.. next next .. .. .. .. boot! nerrrrrrrr you must have made a mistake. You need a cool punched tape reader to boot easily! What? Magnetic tape? What?!? Floppy disks?... What, I don't have to flip the floppies anymore? What, that "XT" is a hard drive that's smaller than a cake-cover? etc.. we live in a golden age.

Well, I was looking pretty cool hauling my first portable computer and mobile phone around all of the airports!

Jerry

 

[Maddog]

Well, I was looking pretty cool hauling my first portable computer and mobile phone around all of the airports!

Jerry

View attachment 2670 View attachment 2671

How did you get that computer in your pocket?

 

[Mr_Chris]

They didn't call them Luggables for nothing.

 

[J R]

How did you get that computer in your pocket?

Dawg,

Back then, the chicks dug it! Threw vendors off when I showed up with my "mobile office".

Jerry

 

[Maddog]

Dawg,

Back then, the chicks dug it! Threw vendors off when I showed up with my "mobile office".

Jerry

I bet those chicks were called "nerds"!

 

[J R]

I bet those chicks were called "nerds"!

Today maybe, not back then! Back then you were a "mover and shaker".