Drone Newbie Anxious to Learn

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Just picked up 3 3DR Solo units parts and repair earlier today. This is my first dive into the drone world so I have a LOT to learn. Been curious for a while but looks like I'll have my work cut out for me. Two of the drones are fairly complete with one having the GoPro Hero 4 gimbal setup. Unfortunately and not surprisingly neither of the two "complete units seem to want to pair to any of the 3 controllers I have per the 3DR manual instructions. I've already downloaded the Open Solo 3.0.0 software from Github but now I need to figure out how to disassemble the drone to get to the SD card to write the images. Fortunately the 3rd unit is already largely disassembled and should allow me to learn how without risking breaking essential plastic tabs and what not. Hoping to learn lots of essential info from these forums!
 
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Just picked up 3 3DR Solo units parts and repair earlier today. This is my first dive into the drone world so I have a LOT to learn. Been curious for a while but looks like I'll have my work cut out for me. Two of the drones are fairly complete with one having the GoPro Hero 4 gimbal setup. Unfortunately and not surprisingly neither of the two "complete units seem to want to pair to any of the 3 controllers I have per the 3DR manual instructions. I've already downloaded the Open Solo 3.0.0 software from Github but now I need to figure out how to disassemble the drone to get to the SD card to write the images. Fortunately the 3rd unit is already largely disassembled and should allow me to learn how without risking breaking essential plastic tabs and what not. Hoping to learn lots of essential info from these forums!
Hi TNJ - welcome! You picked a tough drone for your initial drone experience...anyway: Have at it.
You want Open Solo 4.0, not 3.0!! It's not a unusually tough job to open the Solo if you're patient and don't rush. Read thru the recent Solo upgrade posts on this site. I just went thru the SD card update method this week and it just works. On mine, the SD cards were secured with a blob of a hot glue like substance...use an X-Acto knife to peel it off, then pop the cards.

I'm PC based and used Balena Etcher to reflash the files from here:

Cube:
CubeSolo4.0.1.apj
Copter:
OpenSolo4_Solo_and_reset
Controller:
OpenSolo4_Controller_and_reset
Source Post:

https://m.facebook.com/groups/soloflies/permalink/1006485200053491/

(Courtesy jonbrotherton on this forum)

It just works! I really suggest getting up to speed before diving in...see


Go thru the current Solo stuff on this forum and you'll "catch the drift"...

There are other ways to reflash the cards using SSH, etc.

You will need Mission Planner ( Installing Mission Planner — Mission Planner documentation) to update the Cube on the Solo.

Very best luck and Happy Safe Flying!
 
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Hi TNJ - welcome! You picked a tough drone for your initial drone experience...anyway: Have at it.
You want Open Solo 4.0, not 3.0!! It's not a unusually tough job to open the Solo if you're patient and don't rush. Read thru the recent Solo upgrade posts on this site. I just went thru the SD card update method this week and it just works. On mine, the SD cards were secured with a blob of a hot glue like substance...use an X-Acto knife to peel it off, then pop the cards.

I'm PC based and used Balena Etcher to reflash the files from here:

Cube:
CubeSolo4.0.1.apj
Copter:
OpenSolo4_Solo_and_reset
Controller:
OpenSolo4_Controller_and_reset
Source Post:

https://m.facebook.com/groups/soloflies/permalink/1006485200053491/

(Courtesy jonbrotherton on this forum)

It just works! I really suggest getting up to speed before diving in...see


Go thru the current Solo stuff on this forum and you'll "catch the drift"...

There are other ways to reflash the cards using SSH, etc.

You will need Mission Planner ( Installing Mission Planner — Mission Planner documentation) to update the Cube on the Solo.

Very best luck and Happy Safe Flying!
OH, use new SD cards, hold on to those originals just in case. They are 8-9 yrs old now, hit Amazon for some new guys.
 
Hi TNJ - welcome! You picked a tough drone for your initial drone experience...anyway: Have at it.
You want Open Solo 4.0, not 3.0!! It's not a unusually tough job to open the Solo if you're patient and don't rush. Read thru the recent Solo upgrade posts on this site. I just went thru the SD card update method this week and it just works. On mine, the SD cards were secured with a blob of a hot glue like substance...use an X-Acto knife to peel it off, then pop the cards.

I'm PC based and used Balena Etcher to reflash the files from here:

Cube:
CubeSolo4.0.1.apj
Copter:
OpenSolo4_Solo_and_reset
Controller:
OpenSolo4_Controller_and_reset
Source Post:

https://m.facebook.com/groups/soloflies/permalink/1006485200053491/

(Courtesy jonbrotherton on this forum)

It just works! I really suggest getting up to speed before diving in...see


Go thru the current Solo stuff on this forum and you'll "catch the drift"...

There are other ways to reflash the cards using SSH, etc.

You will need Mission Planner ( Installing Mission Planner — Mission Planner documentation) to update the Cube on the Solo.

Very best luck and Happy Safe Flying!
Thanks so much for the encouragement and advice. I already have one of the copters in pieces and pulled the main board. And yes I got to experience the joy of scraping off all of the hot glue to remove the cards. I did read that Open Solo 4.0 was a thing shortly after posting about 3.0, so I do plan to go that route. I have already printed the original manual and intend to read through it all at least once before attempting my first flight. Not sure what software was loaded on these. It didn't respond to the factory rest procedure in the manual despite appropriate lights below the motor pods and a flashing orange light on the mainboard. After trying several times without success, I decided to go the route of disassembly and loading Open Solo since I have no info on their current software status. I'm not afraid of doing the research but I do a have few questions I'm hoping you may be able to help with.

1) I do have a little experience working with Arduinos and Raspberry Pis so the concepts aren't foreign to me. What's not clear is If I can use Balena Etcher (on a Mac in my case) to flash the image onto the SD card in the Cube, why do I need Mission Planner to update the cube? Is there additional firmware in NVRAM onboard the cube?

2) I read another post about installing Open Solo 4.0 and it was pretty adamant about needing the $30 Solex software. I assume this is useful if you are looking to do a software based update verses pulling the SD cards and imaging them outside the copter?

3) Considering the amount of effort required to disassemble the copter and the lack of availability of green cubes and the high price of orange cubes; it seems like it would really make sense to have the 5V update performed on the cube stock black while I have it out. Surface mount hot air workstation work is beyond my electronics repair skillset but I do have a few friends that can probably help. For a newbie like me does this upgrade really make sense and justify the beers it'll cost me?

4) Finally it is my understanding there is a 3rd SD card inside the controller. I removed every screw I could find and pried on the plastic tabs and could get partial separation but not complete for fear of breaking important plastic tabs. I did some searching on this forum and the Internet and didn't have any luck finding instructions or even tips. Do you have any suggestions or can you point me toward useful reference material?

Thanks for the tip about using new SD cards, I already have identified larger capacity quality cards on Amazon that I plan to use. From my understanding I don't need anything larger than 16GB but I haven't heard any concerns about larger capacity cards and the price differential isn't significant for me. Don't mean to seem lazy about reading but I need to sign up for a new Dropbox account to get the Open Solo 4.0 files which I'm not crazy about considering their questionable privacy practices. I refuse to sign up for a Facebook account for the same reason but can likely get my son to use his account to retrieve necessary info. I'm really not looking for someone to spoon feed me the necessary knowledge and also not looking to offload necessary troubleshooting as that is typically where most essential knowledge is often derived.

Thanks again!
 
Thanks so much for the encouragement and advice. I already have one of the copters in pieces and pulled the main board. And yes I got to experience the joy of scraping off all of the hot glue to remove the cards. I did read that Open Solo 4.0 was a thing shortly after posting about 3.0, so I do plan to go that route. I have already printed the original manual and intend to read through it all at least once before attempting my first flight. Not sure what software was loaded on these. It didn't respond to the factory rest procedure in the manual despite appropriate lights below the motor pods and a flashing orange light on the mainboard. After trying several times without success, I decided to go the route of disassembly and loading Open Solo since I have no info on their current software status. I'm not afraid of doing the research but I do a have few questions I'm hoping you may be able to help with.

1) I do have a little experience working with Arduinos and Raspberry Pis so the concepts aren't foreign to me. What's not clear is If I can use Balena Etcher (on a Mac in my case) to flash the image onto the SD card in the Cube, why do I need Mission Planner to update the cube? Is there additional firmware in NVRAM onboard the cube?

2) I read another post about installing Open Solo 4.0 and it was pretty adamant about needing the $30 Solex software. I assume this is useful if you are looking to do a software based update verses pulling the SD cards and imaging them outside the copter?

3) Considering the amount of effort required to disassemble the copter and the lack of availability of green cubes and the high price of orange cubes; it seems like it would really make sense to have the 5V update performed on the cube stock black while I have it out. Surface mount hot air workstation work is beyond my electronics repair skillset but I do have a few friends that can probably help. For a newbie like me does this upgrade really make sense and justify the beers it'll cost me?

4) Finally it is my understanding there is a 3rd SD card inside the controller. I removed every screw I could find and pried on the plastic tabs and could get partial separation but not complete for fear of breaking important plastic tabs. I did some searching on this forum and the Internet and didn't have any luck finding instructions or even tips. Do you have any suggestions or can you point me toward useful reference material?

Thanks for the tip about using new SD cards, I already have identified larger capacity quality cards on Amazon that I plan to use. From my understanding I don't need anything larger than 16GB but I haven't heard any concerns about larger capacity cards and the price differential isn't significant for me. Don't mean to seem lazy about reading but I need to sign up for a new Dropbox account to get the Open Solo 4.0 files which I'm not crazy about considering their questionable privacy practices. I refuse to sign up for a Facebook account for the same reason but can likely get my son to use his account to retrieve necessary info. I'm really not looking for someone to spoon feed me the necessary knowledge and also not looking to offload necessary troubleshooting as that is typically where most essential knowledge is often derived.

Thanks again!
Hey Ten Jed (great tune),
1. (per Google)
How do I run Etcher on Mac?


If you are a Mac OS user, the steps you will follow are:
  1. Double click the . dmg file.
  2. Drag Etcher to your Application folder.
  3. Double click to have it opened.
  4. Attach SD on the Mac.
  5. Click flash.
OK - The longer story is there are two unique processors in a Solo. The first is the Cube, (black, green, orange, etc.) which runs the copter itself...this requires the .apj file, Arducopter. It has its own loader which is accessed by Misson Planner or QCGround Control, and is unrelated to the stuff on the SD cards.

The second, so-called companion computer, is an I.MX6. This handles the video feed and a lot of support Solo functions, including the WiFi link to the remote controller handset. Your Solo controller also has an I.MX6 processor board that, among other things, provides the WiFi Access Point that allows one to SSH into either the Solo or controller. The firmware for these I.MX6 boards is on the SD cards. The Copter firmware is maintained in flash on the cube, which is why one needs MP or QC to initially flash the cube.

This new SD firmware eliminates the problem with some of the other update methods - that being a factory reset of either Solo or controller caused the now undesired firmware to be reloaded, negating what we're trying to do. There is a lot of dated info on the various Wikis that required one to get into the I.MX6 folders to insure that a factory update request RELOADS the current firmware, not the old crap. That's why these desired files are named "....... AND RESET".

2. SOLEX is not necessary if using the SD card method. There are a lot of mixed comments regarding SOLEX these days in general...but you don't need it in this case.

3. You DON'T need a Cube Green. The latest firmwares are supposed to address the "low signalling voltage issue". Stock cube works fine.

4. Don't try to take a cube apart - no need. The card in cubes is primarily used to retain the real time logging info from Arducopter (the firmware running in the cube) for post-flight analysis - extremely useful! These logs are created every time the copter is armed, and are accessed using MP or QCG.

I used these: Amazon.com Worked fine! In general, avoid brandX SD cards from The Dollar Store, lol.

I totally hear you regarding Facebook and social media...it's a shame that FB Solo group isn't open to non-members.

OK! Assuming you did all the updates, the Solo should stabalize with two yellow disco lights and a red and green light. The controller will come up with "Waiting For Solo", and connect within a minute, probably showing a GPS or Compass error message. All good! Now you can connect to the Solo WiFi network, passphrase is "sololink". At that point you can SSH into the Solo (10.1.1.10) and poke around if desired. More importantly, if you launch MP it self-determines that you are attached to a copter via UDP. It will load up the parameters from the cube. You will need to do an accel / compass calibration before flying...these features are under the SETUP / Manditory tabs in MP. 100% required!!

Please ask anything...there is, unfortunately, a lot of confusing and circular,dated info in the WIKI involving installing Open Solo 4. Absolutely use the "..... AND RESET" files. If your birds are opened and you have the cards the files are "right there" and require no extra manipulation.

Best!
 
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Hey Ten Jed (great tune),
1. (per Google)
How do I run Etcher on Mac?


If you are a Mac OS user, the steps you will follow are:
  1. Double click the . dmg file.
  2. Drag Etcher to your Application folder.
  3. Double click to have it opened.
  4. Attach SD on the Mac.
  5. Click flash.
OK - The longer story is there are two unique processors in a Solo. The first is the Cube, (black, green, orange, etc.) which runs the copter itself...this requires the .apj file, Arducopter. It has its own loader which is accessed by Misson Planner or QCGround Control, and is unrelated to the stuff on the SD cards.

The second, so-called companion computer, is an I.MX6. This handles the video feed and a lot of support Solo functions, including the WiFi link to the remote controller handset. Your Solo controller also has an I.MX6 processor board that, among other things, provides the WiFi Access Point that allows one to SSH into either the Solo or controller. The firmware for these I.MX6 boards is on the SD cards. The Copter firmware is maintained in flash on the cube, which is why one needs MP or QC to initially flash the cube.

This new SD firmware eliminates the problem with some of the other update methods - that being a factory reset of either Solo or controller caused the now undesired firmware to be reloaded, negating what we're trying to do. There is a lot of dated info on the various Wikis that required one to get into the I.MX6 folders to insure that a factory update request RELOADS the current firmware, not the old crap. That's why these desired files are named "....... AND RESET".

2. SOLEX is not necessary if using the SD card method. There are a lot of mixed comments regarding SOLEX these days in general...but you don't need it in this case.

3. You DON'T need a Cube Green. The latest firmwares are supposed to address the "low signalling voltage issue". Stock cube works fine.

4. Don't try to take a cube apart - no need. The card in cubes is primarily used to retain the real time logging info from Arducopter (the firmware running in the cube) for post-flight analysis - extremely useful! These logs are created every time the copter is armed, and are accessed using MP or QCG.

I used these: Amazon.com Worked fine! In general, avoid brandX SD cards from The Dollar Store, lol.

I totally hear you regarding Facebook and social media...it's a shame that FB Solo group isn't open to non-members.

OK! Assuming you did all the updates, the Solo should stabalize with two yellow disco lights and a red and green light. The controller will come up with "Waiting For Solo", and connect within a minute, probably showing a GPS or Compass error message. All good! Now you can connect to the Solo WiFi network, passphrase is "sololink". At that point you can SSH into the Solo (10.1.1.10) and poke around if desired. More importantly, if you launch MP it self-determines that you are attached to a copter via UDP. It will load up the parameters from the cube. You will need to do an accel / compass calibration before flying...these features are under the SETUP / Manditory tabs in MP. 100% required!!

Please ask anything...there is, unfortunately, a lot of confusing and circular,dated info in the WIKI involving installing Open Solo 4. Absolutely use the "..... AND RESET" files. If your birds are opened and you have the cards the files are "right there" and require no extra manipulation.

Best!
OH, after updating the cards and the cube, no factory resets are required, bird and controller
will just launch. You know you have it if the controller says Open Solo 4 in small letters at the bottom of the display.
 
So sad that the Solo couldn't compete with the foreign competitors. It had, and still has many features and capabilities that far surpass most of the current drones out there. Totally different procedures in the programming, up-grading, etc. etc. I've got 2 or 3 that are flyable, and can't remember what versions they are on. And at 74 years old, I ain't about to try to up-grade. The old "if it works, don't fix it" thing.:cool:
 
So sad that the Solo couldn't compete with the foreign competitors. It had, and still has many features and capabilities that far surpass most of the current drones out there. Totally different procedures in the programming, up-grading, etc. etc. I've got 2 or 3 that are flyable, and can't remember what versions they are on. And at 74 years old, I ain't about to try to up-grade. The old "if it works, don't fix it" thing.:cool:
Preaching to the choir, Frank! I have several IRIS+ and some homebrew drones, and had resisted getting a Solo for years - based on all the bad press. But it kept nagging me, and finally picked up a NIB bird and controller sans gimbal...of course with no 'phone app not much was going to happen. I'm a hacker, and finally just took everything apart and upgraded to Open Solo 4 by reflashing the SD cards and cube, and put in a modern GPS receiver. It flys perfectly, and I really like the sleek clean look.

What happened to 3DR is criminal ... I'm sure you've seen:


Talk about leaving a customer base 'swinging'. I've been in hi-tech all my life have no fear when it comes to hacking electronics, so to say.
Best,
Happy Flying!
 
Oh it competed pretty well, at the time. If I think back to what-was-I-thinking when it launched, that made me pay full retail for the kit. The GoPro3/4 partnership was better than most drones had as on-board cameras. The flight parameters were more athletic -- more robust in Wind, more automatable, extensible, and it had a lot of nice features you didn't see in DIY -- easy spin on/off props, motor "pods" easy to replace, battery cartridges like a powertool. If you read the post-mortem studies on 3DR it's really more about inventory management, optimism, and the finance/factory/business side of things failing long before DJI just ate up all the margins. (GoPro's Karma was more of a too-little/too-late story, I think.)

Anyway, just a big thankyou to CharlieKeck there -- that's far more information than I was able to find anywhere else on the OpenSolo4 startup.

This part is where I got stuck:
"You will need to do an accel / compass calibration before flying...these features are under the SETUP / Manditory tabs in MP. 100% required!!"

It just.. doesn't. The Accel IMU calibration I can use the very-old app on a very-old tablet, but that's not an option for everyone.
The Compass though, it has defeated me.. three apps, Mission Planner -- nothing can FINISH compass calibration on any of the stock-hardware Solo's I've tried.

I'm watching from the sidelines to see if TNJed makes it further than I did. If so, I might have to pull the SD Card(s) and go that route instead of the app-based OpenSolo4 install.
 
Hi Maxwell,

John here - CharlieKeck is a screen name, long story...

Anyway, I highly suggest using MP for the compass calibration. By default, there are actually two magnetometers (compass) involved: One in the leg (external) and one in the cube itself. In general,
most DON'T employ that internal cube compass as it can be difficult to calibrate due to the very close proximity of power wires and nearby electronics.

On the MP calibration page, you can see the two magnetometers, and one has the EXTERNAL box checked. If willing, disable the one not checked as external. You'll see that capability in MP, about halfway down the page. A reboot is required if you add, delete or change the ordering. Reboot absolutely required! Then calibrate the external (leg) device - outdoors, away from cars, tractors etc.
Have no ferrous stuff on your person, like a pocket knife, etc. (I'm sure you've seen all that advice!)

The external should calibrate - it takes time, and requires multiple rotations in all axis, many.

If you have a laptop, set it about 20' away, and as you calibrate you can just set Solo down and go check the green progress bar. Carry on till the happy chirp replaces the ticking sound.
If the external won't calibrate, it may be defective or there is a iron buried - rebar being a usual suspect. Try multiple locations. Again, a reboot is required post-calibration.

I was able to calibrate both in one session, but the internal took about 2x more gyrations...

GL, and please keep me posted!

Best, John (CharlieKeck)
 
Good info! Thank you.

I think I'm going to have to step up to a Laptop Mission Planner. I've been using an Android Tablet and that app is only barely working. I did not have the options you describe to select which-compass. It also spins up the motors during compass calibration, which seems odd. I can bring a Linux laptop and Windows laptop next time to compare.

You would laugh.. So afraid of metal and rebar, and frustrated... I was determined!
I drove to a field 15 minutes away. Stripped down to almost indecent-exposure levels of bare, not so much as a metal zipper on me. Left the car out of sight, and brought only the tablet and controller, then set those far away to twirl the afternoon away with the Solos.

It was like some kind of dystopian Sound of Music meadow with a Solo twirling-rotating dance. Two hours of it.

I had three flavors of result.. either the bar proceeded to 50% and stopped.. Solo still ticking, never completing.
Or it would complete to the Razzberry fail sound.
Or it would get to 80% oh-so-hopeful! and then hang.
Never the happy chirps, never able to arm.

Tried Solex app, the stock App on an old Nexus7, and MissionPlanner on an Android Tablet.. all a little different, never completing. Sometimes the motors would arm and spin during compass calibration with MissionPlanner.
I tried GoPro attached/removed
I tried Gimbal assembly attached/removed
Always same results.
 
Hi Maxwell,

John here - CharlieKeck is a screen name, long story...

Anyway, I highly suggest using MP for the compass calibration. By default, there are actually two magnetometers (compass) involved: One in the leg (external) and one in the cube itself. In general,
most DON'T employ that internal cube compass as it can be difficult to calibrate due to the very close proximity of power wires and nearby electronics.

On the MP calibration page, you can see the two magnetometers, and one has the EXTERNAL box checked. If willing, disable the one not checked as external. You'll see that capability in MP, about halfway down the page. A reboot is required if you add, delete or change the ordering. Reboot absolutely required! Then calibrate the external (leg) device - outdoors, away from cars, tractors etc.
Have no ferrous stuff on your person, like a pocket knife, etc. (I'm sure you've seen all that advice!)

The external should calibrate - it takes time, and requires multiple rotations in all axis, many.

If you have a laptop, set it about 20' away, and as you calibrate you can just set Solo down and go check the green progress bar. Carry on till the happy chirp replaces the ticking sound.
If the external won't calibrate, it may be defective or there is a iron buried - rebar being a usual suspect. Try multiple locations. Again, a reboot is required post-calibration.

I was able to calibrate both in one session, but the internal took about 2x more gyrations...

GL, and please keep me posted!

Best, John (CharlieKeck)
I should clarify. If using MP for the calibrations, it needs to be attached to the Sololink access point. Obvious I know, but I've had folks I've worked with wonder why MP wasn't linked to the drone ... they forgot the Connect button on MP. Best luck, going flying, finally a real, dry summer day in Vermont - few and far between...great day to all!
 
Good info! Thank you.

I think I'm going to have to step up to a Laptop Mission Planner. I've been using an Android Tablet and that app is only barely working. I did not have the options you describe to select which-compass. It also spins up the motors during compass calibration, which seems odd. I can bring a Linux laptop and Windows laptop next time to compare.

You would laugh.. So afraid of metal and rebar, and frustrated... I was determined!
I drove to a field 15 minutes away. Stripped down to almost indecent-exposure levels of bare, not so much as a metal zipper on me. Left the car out of sight, and brought only the tablet and controller, then set those far away to twirl the afternoon away with the Solos.

It was like some kind of dystopian Sound of Music meadow with a Solo twirling-rotating dance. Two hours of it.

I had three flavors of result.. either the bar proceeded to 50% and stopped.. Solo still ticking, never completing.
Or it would complete to the Razzberry fail sound.
Or it would get to 80% oh-so-hopeful! and then hang.
Never the happy chirps, never able to arm.

Tried Solex app, the stock App on an old Nexus7, and MissionPlanner on an Android Tablet.. all a little different, never completing. Sometimes the motors would arm and spin during compass calibration with MissionPlanner.
I tried GoPro attached/removed
I tried Gimbal assembly attached/removed
Always same results.
Now that is true dedication! Let me ask: Is your Solo running original firmware, or have you upgraded to Open Solo 4? Everything I've mentioned relates to the latter - I'm not running any of the Android apps...when I got Solo, I immediately did the upgrade.

I would personally run and hide from any app that started the motors when doing an unrelated task. Bizarre. Surprised someone hasn't been 'nicked'!

Anyway, I'd beg/borrow/steal a PC based laptop to execute MP. MP was originally written for Windows, and although there is an Android MP it has issues from what I understand. Definitely see what you can do regarding using MP on a PC.

It's weird you can't calibrate on the Android app. Is it SOLEX?

As a total aside, and totally not recommended!!!!! , I did a bunch of experiments a few years ago regarding mag calibration. In the house, in my shop with power supplies, vise and various magnets around the mags would calibrate. Of course, would never attempt to fly this setup! That calibration is building an internal table of what it thinks the earth's local field is at your location, and uses this in conjunction with a built-in table of world wide earth magnetic characteristics.

Additionally, the Arducopter folks recommend doing the compass cals AFTER obtaining a good GPS lock...I've always followed this advice.

My gut is, and that's all it is, is that your magnetometers are probably OK and it's either the app or some external issue that is not allowing cal to complete...the reason being is that your process starts and the green bars advance, but die. One would suspect that if there were no bars at all the mags are dead, that both start implies another issue.

If any Arducopter / Solo experts out there have any suggestions, please jump in. TU!

Finally, for now, I'll state that everything I've done is on a Solo running Open Solo 4 and Arducopter 4.0. John aka CharlieKeck
 

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