Assuming no hi-capacity battery this year.

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I was holding out till NAB before purchasing another battery in hopes that a new hi-capacity battery would be announced. It looks like instead we have some tether system that allows for little height or distance from the launch point that costs nearly twice as much as the drone. I'm very disappointed with 3DR on this front. My batteries start out at just under 15 minuets and over time reduce to 8-9 minuets of flight time. I have toy drones with longer flight times. Has anyone come up with a solution to these dismal times aloft. I'm looking at options such as weight reduction. I know "the weight makes it more stable you want it heavy," wrong I'd give up some stability for longer duration flights and just fly on calmer wind days. Other options such as battery modifications. motor replacements, props. I'd like a true 20 minuets of useful flight, that would be a 33% increase over what I'm getting now with a new battery.
 
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Solo, Gimbal, GP, and battery = 3.9 Lbs = 62.4 ounces

Solo Smart Battery = 1 Lbs = 16 ounces
Gimbal & GP = 0.6 Lbs = 9.6 ounces
Motor Pods = 1 Lbs = 16 ounces estimated.
Frame, electronics, and wiring = 1.3 Lbs = 20.8 ounces approx.

Not sure where you can reduce weight or what increase a higher capacity battery could offer to flight times. If an equal capacity battery could be provided less the "smarts" and housing, I'm certain there would be a gain. There is always a trade off for a larger capacity battery by the increase in weight.

I'm running 800kV T-Motors with APC props, which was detailed to be more efficient in the motor thread. I'm actually running heavier with 3 additional ounces on my bird. But maintaining a 15 minute average flight time. I land at 25% as a habit, with these 6 month old batteries

Using 65 ounces as my flight weight, that equals to about 14.1 seconds per an ounce. Where are you going to lose enough weight to gain flight time?

Keep in mind, if your batteries are starting at a lower voltage than spec, then you'll see less flight times from the battery. A fully charged battery of 14.8VDC versus a 14VDC charged battery has lost a significant amount of flight time. My guess is that it could be 1-2 minutes. The battery discharge is not linear to the actual flight times. Lower voltage, faster discharge.

Sorry I was bored and wanted to play with numbers....use at your discretion. I'm no expert on Li-Po batteries or BL motors. Correction to the numbers above are appreciated, as I just used published info to extrapolate the assumed.
 
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Flight time is the only issue I have with my Solo. I'm getting 14-15 minutes on new "just charged" batteries(GoPro rolling) and 10-11 minutes on 6 month old batteries. The reality is the competition is getting 20 minutes plus on a single battery so Solo needs to do better IMO.

I would invest in new props, motors or batteries if 3DR made them available as an add on but I don't feel like fiddling with aftermarket stuff, not that it isn't good or works well; I would just like to see a OE supported solution to the problem.
 
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Ok, so here are the numbers

Solo 1800g and a 5200mAh 14.8V Lipo 76.96Wh

P3 1280g and a 4480mAh 15.2V Lipo 68.10Wh


The Phantom is only 71% the weight of a Solo, and has a 13% larger battery. For the Solo to get near those flight times will require some work.

Options:

1) go on a diet. Solo is 40% heavier
2) Larger battery, doesn't help with #1
3) Change cChemistry. Use HV lipos
4) All of the above

Out of all our options, the HV lipos may be the best route, but that would require new chargers, which are not an issue. We could use the DIY multibank chargers being developed and just up the output. The issue I see, and it may not be an issue, is to figure out the SMBUS(?) and make changes so the battery and Solo know that it is a HV Lipo. If we could get option 4, now we are talking......
 
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It is a 14.8V battery (3.7v per cell x 4 cells). They get charged to 16.8V though (4.2V per cell) . Just like your 12V car battery gets charged to 14.7V. If your quad is down to 14.8V left, you're almost dead. If your car is down to 12V - you are pretty much dead too.
 
Funny, 3DR's FAQ on spec's states otherwise...14.8. Wonder what else is wrong in the spec's????

Solo Specs: Just the facts | 3DR | Drone & UAV Technology
14.8 is the 'nominal' voltage.

A 3S standard lipo is nominally 11.1V or 3.7V per cell, but a full charge is 4.2V per cell or 12.6V for all 3. Just like the "12V" battery in our cars is really closer to 12.6V (I think 2.1V /cell for lead/acid)

on edit:
Ah, Steve beat me to it, but with different numbers for lead/acid. Anyway...

@PdxSteve, you have been playing with the battery bus, how hard would it be to use a HV lipo on a Solo??
 
I would invest in new props, motors or batteries if 3DR made them available as an add on but I don't feel like fiddling with aftermarket stuff, not that it isn't good or works well; I would just like to see a OE supported solution to the problem.

I'll admit I felt BF for buying the T-Motors, but it has been worth it in all respects. Just wanted to prove to myself better could be had. If 3DR would just part out the ESC and the motor frame for $10 the Solo world would be a better place. If not, I understand and will continue to enjoy the platform for what I was able to improve upon.
 
Solo, Gimbal, GP, and battery = 3.9 Lbs = 62.4 ounces

Solo Smart Battery = 1 Lbs = 16 ounces
Gimbal & GP = 0.6 Lbs = 9.6 ounces
Motor Pods = 1 Lbs = 16 ounces estimated.
Frame, electronics, and wiring = 1.3 Lbs = 20.8 ounces approx.

Do you have a weight for just the frame? I have not down a 100% teardown... yet

The Pixhawk2/carrier board and gimbal are what makes Solo special. The motors and frame are the only areas open to significant change. Transplanting the essentials in to new frame optimized for different motor KV & props size with a matching cell count battery is the route to achieve endurance and performance. Given the constraints of the stock battery bay there are not many if any commercially available off the shelf options that overcome the weight penalty already at play. With the stock chassis setup the formula is already written and not a whole lot shaving a few grams is going to do. So rewrite the formula based on new power train!

I'm going the transplant route with a frame I cut last spring but never finished. So transplanting is the perfect excuse to dust it off and get it flying. Will test with Tmotor 3508 and KDE 4215, 4s-6s and big props:)

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Do you have a weight for just the frame? I have not down a 100% teardown... yet
I do have just the frame and will make an effort to reply with an accurate weight this week.

Kudos for the effort to transplant. I look forward to your experience for such a project.
 
I've been thinking about simply strapping one of my many Multistar 5200 MAH LiPo batteries to the bottom of the Solo. Then wiring it into the solo in parallel with the Smart battery using an XT60 connector pigtail hanging out a hole I drill in the bottom. That would basically double battery capacity.

I would then need to use Mission Planner or Tower to disable the smart battery stuff, change the capacity to 10,400 MAH, and disable the capacity failsafe. Therefore the only useful battery indicator and failsafe would be watching the voltage on the screen. This is fine for me, it's really what I watch the most anyway. But for the average consumer that isn't familiar with all this stuff, and with no DIY experience, that might not be wise.
 
Sorry for the question, my ignorance is showing regarding smart batteries. Why would there be a need to change settings. If the smart battery is reading the Volts/Amps, the battery in parallel would allow the smart battery to discharge at a slower rate. Not like the PH2 is making that determination, correct?
 
Well, in a perfect world, on paper, yes that would work out. The Solo battery would be discharging 1/2 as fast, with the other half coming from the parallel battery. The amp reading on the screen would be wrong (1/2 of reality), but it would technically be an accurate percent remaining of the total dual battery capacity assuming the parallel battery is of equal capacity. It's only metering half the power, but there is twice as much available. Mathematically, it works.

However, I'm not sure it would work out so smoothly. The batteries will probably not discharge at a perfectly even and equal rate due to chemistry, construction, IR, and age differences. How much different they are would determine how lucky you get leaving the settings unchanged. But definitely worth test flying to find out. If it ends up working out to be "accurate enough", then it's much simpler and safer to leave the settings as-is. Taking the flight time from 15 minutes to 25 minutes is a big deal!

Now, then there is the matter of tuning flight characteristics. All the PID settings are based on the weight of the aircraft as designed. Adding another 400 gram battery to the bottom will change the handling. Will it be enough of a change to warrant retuning the PID values that control the motor outputs? Who knows. This makes you a test pilot. On that note, has anyone ever run the autotune on a Solo?
 
Sorry for the question, my ignorance is showing regarding smart batteries. Why would there be a need to change settings. If the smart battery is reading the Volts/Amps, the battery in parallel would allow the smart battery to discharge at a slower rate. Not like the PH2 is making that determination, correct?
There are battery parameters set on the smart battery, such as mAh capacity, voltage, etc. They can be changed via i2c using the smbus specs. However, the manufacturer (Battery Management Technology in Green Power Application) might have locked the ability to alter the parameters - I don't know yet I haven't tried to change them - I only read them.

But if the parameters don't match what the actual battery is, then some things reported to Solo (and conversely the app) would be inaccurate. Things like battery % remaining since it's basing it off of the default/stock 5200mAh. You would probably have to disable other failsafes like RTH battery percentage. I think at 10% it lands where it's at.
 
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Really, it's all unknown though. No one that I know of has actually tried using different batteries.

The electrical components (BMS w/SMBus) are fairly cheap. It would be trivial to buy one that wasn't programmed yet and hook whatever battery configuration you wanted up to it, program it with the specs and plug it into solo using the 3 fin/4 blade molex connector. This I know would work.

It wouldn't be hard to 3D print the current battery housing and extend it higher either. I've printed the housing and it slides into solo and locks in place perfectly. If you've seen that custom 5 battery charger that was shown at NAB where the batteries slid into the charger like they do solo - same thing. Luckily 3DR provides the 3D STEM battery envelope file.

I'm really surprised a 3rd party hasn't developed a different battery pack for Solo. The info on how to do it is available. Even just adding one more lipo pack to make it 5S and give us the extra 5 minutes of flight time we initially thought we were going to get lol.
 
Really, it's all unknown though. No one that I know of has actually tried using different batteries.
Actually @Soloing took a battery apart last summer to see the insides and then flew Solo with a Zippy. Haven't heard much on it since then though..
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Jubal, I heard that Soloing fried the 'smart' internals of that battery during testing, so it is no more
I still have Jimm....'s battery on my workbench, it has been sliced open, and is in pieces for autopsy/mods.
To be continued in a couple of weeks when I return from work travels.

Im interested to know how solo calculates power usage, is it mAH or just voltage depletion?
I wonder if it would be possible to install the 'smart' pcbs inside Solo, and just swap in and out a normal Lipo onto Solos battery bay .?
Food for thought.
 
Jubal, I heard that Soloing fried the 'smart' internals of that battery during testing, so it is no more
I still have Jimm....'s battery on my workbench, it has been sliced open, and is in pieces for autopsy/mods.

Was it user error or possibly from experimenting with higher capacity batteries?

One thing I have found researching smart battery modules is that not only are they programmed for proper capacity reading, the hardware always rated to a specific continous current throughput. Many times I thought I found the magic module for 4-6s high capacity batteries only to dig deep into the datasheet and see max current in/out being way to small. Best I have found for 4s with sbmus communications, on/off and fuel gauge can read up to 20000mah but is only rated to 10amp continuous current. For all the dream batteries we want to use the off the shelf boards available can only handle .5-2C depending on which battery :-(. I would think 3dr like any other company wouldn't over spend on hardware knowing what they spec'd their batteries at. It is entirely possible that the stock Solo battery module has very little hardware headroom to run a higher voltage/capacity battery.
 
All good points, and you are probably entirely correct.
Max charge current on the module in Solo is <6 Amps, and we know output can be 30 or 40A.

On the first point I believe he said user error.
 

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