“Flyaway” prevention.

RichWest · Jul 14, 2017

so low still grounded said:
On yes I can read the answer no problem. Remembering the answer is another issue. I can always take a podium out every time I fly....going to be a mission.......like a solo missionary.

Best lessons learned are by the mistakes we make..., you'll learn quickly.

pyrate · Jul 14, 2017

True that, and no amount of studying is going to stop it all
My very first crash, I pressed and held fly trying to recover from a manual mode switch quickly deteriorating.
I had read that pressing and holding fly mean land
But that did not register when I was trying frantically to get from manual back to GPS

I was 5 feet off the ground, It Landed
Fast

taos · Jul 15, 2017

Pedals2Paddles said:
It only doesn't work on the Android 3DR app. It works fine on the iOS 3DR app and the Solex App.

Really?

Pedals2Paddles · Jul 15, 2017

taos said:
Really?

Yes

Deleted member 12003 · Jul 15, 2017

pyrate said:
Goes back to my "you are ready to fly questions"
If you can't answer these, what people call a fly away is not accurate

What happens when solo loses gps position?
What happens when solo loses controller connection?
What happens when battery failsafe triggers?
What is the responsibility of the pilot when the above happen?
What are all the options for return to me/home and how are they set/used?
What are the characteristics of solos flight modes, especially fly, manual and guided

Great set of questions. I thought I was ready to go, but realized that I don't really know all of these answers off the top of my head -- and that's where they need to be.

pyrate · Jul 15, 2017

it don't have to be, but if any of those things happen, you will be doing the Rocky Dance since you knew exactly what to do

Deleted member 11153 · Jul 15, 2017

pyrate said:
Goes back to my "you are ready to fly questions"
If you can't answer these, what people call a fly away is not accurate

What happens when solo loses gps position?
What happens when solo loses controller connection?
What happens when battery failsafe triggers?
What is the responsibility of the pilot when the above happen?
What are all the options for return to me/home and how are they set/used?
What are the characteristics of solos flight modes, especially fly, manual and guided

Great list. I just copied and pasted it to look at in more detail!

Lon Denard · Jul 16, 2017

andrew.baker.142 said:
I agree with P2P. During a true flyaway the operator has no ability to control behavior of the aircraft. These are very rare with Solo.
Many people think if the copter does something unexpected and then crashes into a tree/building it was a flyaway. Not so. Usually an inexperienced pilot does not make correct control inputs in a timely manner, hits something and calls it a flyaway.

Yep, I've had that situation. The unit decided to drop 5 feet during a cable cam shot and hit a power line before I could do anything about it.

However, my first Solo had a true fly away and there was nothing I could do via the controller. So I'm not sure how programming a button to manual (which I've done for other reasons) could have helped. I've also had a controller lock/freeze, luckily the unit initiated an RTH.

I guess my definition of a fly away is different from some of yours. My definition is when you lose control and the unit takes off on it's own. In that case, the controller is taken out of the equation. That isn't that "rare" and definitely was a bigger problem before the GPS revision. 3DR replaced thousands of drones and GoPros before they stopped honoring their guarantee.

Lon Denard · Jul 16, 2017

andrew.baker.142 said:
Bruce is correct but I wanted to clarify things a bit.
IMHO the most common reason for flyaway is GPS error such as poor signal or multi-path. If the copter thinks the quality of the signal is good but it really isn't the reported position and desired position may not match, so the copter heads in the direction where it thinks it should be. To the operator it looks like to copter just took off on its own. If the copter knows the GPS signal isn't good it will report this to the controller and automatically switch to "manual mode" and hold altitude but drift with the wind. Being able to select manual mode with a button will save the copter only if you can then fly it until GPS is restored, so practice this in an open area.
As you can see having a robust GPS is critical. Solo is actually much better than many of its competitors because it has high standards for what it thinks is a good GPS lock. Think of this next time you have to wait an additional 30 seconds for your GPS before a flight.

Two things, 1. It's a lot more than 30 secs longer for gps lock and 2. I've never lost gps more than I did with my Solo before upgrading the GPS module to the MRO. After the upgrade, my GPS lock times were cut in half and I was getting almost twice the sats.

Pedals2Paddles · Jul 16, 2017

Lon Denard said:
Yep, I've had that situation. The unit decided to drop 5 feet during a cable cam shot and hit a power line before I could do anything about it.

However, my first Solo had a true fly away and there was nothing I could do via the controller. So I'm not sure how programming a button to manual (which I've done for other reasons) could have helped. I've also had a controller lock/freeze, luckily the unit initiated an RTH.

I guess my definition of a fly away is different from some of yours. My definition is when you lose control and the unit takes off on it's own. In that case, the controller is taken out of the equation. That isn't that "rare" and definitely was a bigger problem before the GPS revision. 3DR replaced thousands of drones and GoPros before they stopped honoring their guarantee.

Putting a cable cam too close to an obstacle is not a fly away or malfunction. The GPS being crappy doesn't cause or have anything to do with fly aways either. 3DR hasn't stopped honoring anything. Isn't "losing control and taking off on it's own" exactly what I said??

DJMc · Jul 16, 2017

You do sound like you have had some unfortunate experiences, but there's a bit of detail lacking to make any comment on causes or frequency. The guarantee question has already been dealt with elsewhere, still honoured I understand.

I agree about your different definition of 'flyaway'. Change of flight mode from GPS to non-GPS assistance isn't a loss of control or any kind of 'flyaway' as such, it's a change in flight mode. A colloquial aviation term that might better suit some of the 'flyaways' here could be 'letting the aircraft get ahead of you' - so a flight mode or attempted manoeuvre where the pilot doesn't have the skill or capacity to carry out the actions, monitoring and corrections to achieve the aim. So say, steep turn (30 plus degrees) - OK. A steep approach - again, on it's own OK. Lining up on approach - OK. But attempting a landing by lining up on approach during a steep decent by executing a steep turn - for a less skilled pilot might, well result in 'the aircraft getting ahead of you'....in this case possibly a spiral dive. So a change of flight mode, during an autonomous flight close to a obstacle....higher chance of the aircraft getting ahead of you....depending on your skill and capacity of course

I have to say it never sounds good to have to admit 'the aircraft got ahead of you'...but personally, when talking to other pilots, it always sounds much better than blaming the aircraft for a pilot's own lapses.

J0S0L0 · Jul 16, 2017

After last night's mission, I see that if the battery is run too low bad things can happen.

I ran the battery down to 25% did a quick fly over selfie. At 17% battery, I was in position to land about 3 feet off the ground. The battery went into failsafe mode, Solo started fighting me trying to go higher. It was trying to return to the its launch point which was several feet away.

I held the fly button, and Solo landed with 1% battery life...

Pedals2Paddles · Jul 16, 2017

J0S0L0 said:
After last night's mission, I see that if the battery is run too low bad things can happen.

I ran the battery down to 25% did a quick fly over selfie. At 17% battery, I was in position to land about 3 feet off the ground. The battery went into failsafe mode, Solo started fighting me trying to go higher. It was trying to return to the its launch point which was several feet away.

I held the fly button, and Solo landed with 1% battery life...

The solo was not fighting you. All you have to do is press the fly button to take over control and abort the RTH failsafe. Press it. Not hold it.

DJMc · Jul 16, 2017

Ah...finally a Solo achieves self awareness and goes all SkyNet. I give up....

Lon Denard · Jul 16, 2017

DJMc said:
You do sound like you have had some unfortunate experiences, but there's a bit of detail lacking to make any comment on causes or frequency. The guarantee question has already been dealt with elsewhere, still honoured I understand.

I agree about your different definition of 'flyaway'. Change of flight mode from GPS to non-GPS assistance isn't a loss of control or any kind of 'flyaway' as such, it's a change in flight mode. A colloquial aviation term that might better suit some of the 'flyaways' here could be 'letting the aircraft get ahead of you' - so a flight mode or attempted manoeuvre where the pilot doesn't have the skill or capacity to carry out the actions, monitoring and corrections to achieve the aim. So say, steep turn (30 plus degrees) - OK. A steep approach - again, on it's own OK. Lining up on approach - OK. But attempting a landing by lining up on approach during a steep decent by executing a steep turn - for a less skilled pilot might, well result in 'the aircraft getting ahead of you'....in this case possibly a spiral dive. So a change of flight mode, during an autonomous flight close to a obstacle....higher chance of the aircraft getting ahead of you....depending on your skill and capacity of course

I have to say it never sounds good to have to admit 'the aircraft got ahead of you'...but personally, when talking to other pilots, it always sounds much better than blaming the aircraft for a pilot's own lapses.

Yea but that's a lot of aviation that frankly isn't going on most of the time with a Solo. My last problem was a straight line shot, at about 5 mph when it "corrected its position" by a few feet vertical. Also comparing a fully in control airplane pilot to a maybe 50% in control drone pilot is a non starter for me. I'll take the blame for not leaving myself more room above the power lines or paying more attention to the video feed than the actual craft. Oh and my unit suffered a momentary loss of power according to 3DR. The voltage suddenly dropped and recovered in a second but not fast enough unfortunately.

As I stated before, I had an actual fly away, verified by 3dr and a controller lock, also verified by 3dr. It's easy to blame the pilot, GM tried that when their ignitions were failing. It didn't work for them and it won't work here either. There are inherent problems with this platform. The GPS module and weak radios being two of them. Luckily, both of those problems are relatively easy to repair. It always strikes me as funny that the same guys that jump up every time any one says anything negative about the Solo have the most modifications on their own units.

Pedals2Paddles · Jul 16, 2017

Stock GPS and stock radio on mine.

The GPS does not cause fly aways. Neither do the allegedly weak wifi radios. I get that something on yours malfunctioned. Been there, done that, got lucky. But it still has nothing to do with the GPS or the radios.

Lon Denard · Jul 16, 2017

OMG! So here we are talking about the difference between lost gps and a fly away and I just had a lost gps situation! Worst case scenario too. Limited landing area, over water and gusty winds. The unit lost gps a minute into flight never retrieved gps lock. Wild ride! It was like trying to steer a helium balloon!

pyrate · Jul 16, 2017

I actually find flying manual relaxing now

Pedals2Paddles · Jul 17, 2017

The kp index the last 2 days has been 5-7 which makes GPS on small UAS like this pretty unreliable. Especially on a stock 3DR GPS that is already a piece of crap to begin with.

David Boulanger · Jul 17, 2017

Pedals2Paddles said:
The kp index the last 2 days has been 5-7 which makes GPS on small UAS like this pretty unreliable. Especially on a stock 3DR GPS that is already a piece of crap to begin with.

May have been as high as 8 for part of yesterday.