Thinking about moving to Karma - comments?

[cameraguy]

I've been thinking of ordering a Karma. I was at a show recently and saw a Mavic, which I thought was too small, but I've had good luck with GoPro in the past and success with customer support.

The end of Solo development by 3DR - re Forbes article, I don't feel it's prudent to put money into spare Bestbuy discounted Solo's, as no one is going to develop for them.

I'd like some comments and thoughts from others. Please no flaming, I love my Solo, but I want a product with a more solid future.

Thanks

 

[Maddog]

Personally, Solo does everything I need it to right now, along with Tower and Solex. I imagine some new capability that I never thought of might come along later but I'm not going to worry about it.

Granted, Solo will only fly as long as parts are available to maintain it.

I don't think it would hurt to wait before purchasing Karma and give others a chance to work out the bugs and verify it actually does what you want it to.

I don't know anything about Karma or Mavic so I have no opinion of them. You should buy whatever you feel will meet your needs.

 

[User Name]

The end of Solo development by 3DR - re Forbes article, I don't feel it's prudent to put money into spare Bestbuy discounted Solo's, as no one is going to develop for them.

You are aware of Solex, right? Honestly, I'm just checking.

If you're talking hardware development, I watched the Go Pro intro and I didn't see hardware extensibility sold as a strong point of the Karma, or even an option at all. I guess what I'm saying is that if you want things like obstacle avoidance, Karma doesn't have it either, and almost assuredly never will.

Going from a Solo to a Karma seems of minimal value unless the detachable/handheld gimbal thing is of interest. But in gaining that, you're loosing the smart-shot capabilities of the Solo... yea, Karma has cable cam, and it'll probably be improved, but as far as I'm aware, it's back to 2 point (from Solo's current unlimited point), and the easing is either non existent or rudimentary.

I get that you're disappointed/concerned about the fall of 3DR, but jumping to the Karma seems like a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. Personally, my interest is in video, and the Solo still does that better than anyone. My plan is to fly the Solo until the Karma 2 or Phantom 6 or Mavic 3 is out and move to one of them if they provide the kind of on-board processing that makes Solo so capable as a camera platform. Until another drone has that, to me, the Solo is still #1 for my needs/interests.

Just my 2c.

 

[cameraguy]

I completely agree, the Solo is a capable and competant camera platform. But, to guarantee it works into the future, involves spending $500 plus with Bestbuy. Then hoping there will be 3rd party parts.

Jumping into the Karma, is just like buying the Phantom 1, or the original Solo.

My concern is putting money into a dead platform.

So I will tell you I don't know anything about solex. I use iOS to fly with

 

[petermag]

Your Solo works now and can still do things Karma cannot – it’s not as if you cannot fly it because you are waiting for a part to be provided that is supposedly not available. There will be other drone options out by the time your Solo is truly end of life.

If you have a continuous surplus of cash then go for it, else jumping to each new thing that’s out there is a very short lived fix which I feel will unfortunately always end up with you being disappointed with what you have.

Live in the moment.

 

[User Name]

I completely agree, the Solo is a capable and competant camera platform. But, to guarantee it works into the future, involves spending $500 plus with Bestbuy. Then hoping there will be 3rd party parts.

Best Buy Solos are down to $380, and that gets you two more batteries and another charger, so even if you were just buying it for parts, you do get more use out of the purchase for the Solo you fly.

I get the concern for parts, at some point, something will fail that's not replaceable and the Solo will be grounded. But why not wait until that happens, especially when you'd be taking a hit in capabilities moving to the Karma now?

But here's the biggest thing - are you really so sure the Karma won't end up the same as the Solo? Karma is nice, but look how long it took to finally make it to market, and in many ways, it's Solo all over again - going up against DJI drones with more advanced tech. That's not to say Phantom4/Mavic are better, I don't think they are, but what are all the news sites and YouTube dimwits fawning all over? The Mavic... which is what the herds of consumers will buy, Karma could end up a commercial failure like Solo, and you'll be in the same boat.

Now if you just damaged your Solo beyond repair, then I can see jumping, but until that time, I just don't see the benefit.

 

[twitchyzero]

mavic is too small? how's that a compliant?
i think the reviews rated it as holding up as well as P4 in windy conditions.

If you dont want to dump more money into platform on life support, I get ya. I have 2 Solos but getting a Mavic.

Solex is the only reason why I haven't 100% given up on Solo. All the other stuff is fluff for consumers. It's all "potential", remember all the grand "modular" selling point of Solo? It pretty much amounted to nothing at the end of the day.

 

[Marich]

mavic is too small? how's that a compliant?
i think the reviews rated it as holding up as well as P4 in windy conditions.

If you dont want to dump more money into platform on life support, I get ya. I have 2 Solos but getting a Mavic.

Solex is the only reason why I haven't 100% given up on Solo. All the other stuff is fluff for consumers. It's all "potential", remember all the grand "modular" selling point of Solo? It pretty much amounted to nothing at the end of the day.

Weight. There's pretty much no way Mavic could match Solo's windbucking abilities.

 

[Mountain Flyer]

Weight. There's pretty much no way Mavic could match Solo's windbucking abilities.

I disagree. I have several quads smaller than solo and with the right motor, esc, and props they do every bit as well as solo at holding themselves in wind. I do not believe that DJI would not take that into account. Furthermore I have seen Mavic in action and know it handles wind as well as anything available now. I myself will be buying a Mavic to add to the drone hangar but have zero intentions of buying a Karma. IMO Karma is a downgraded Solo that you can take the camera off and still have the use a gimbal. Karma is fluff with a new camera but I see no value to it as far as improving upon already existing drones. It still uses a fisheye camera that needs a new lens or has to be post processed regardless of what other changes there are in the H5. Karma is a step sideways into something similar to what Solo is without as many capabilities while the Mavic has been improved in function. Some might say it is even better than PH4 in some of its capabilities. I fail to see the attraction to Karma unless someone is just a dedicated GoPro fanboy and buys it for the name.

 

[User Name]

I disagree. I have several quads smaller than solo and with the right motor, esc, and props they do every bit as well as solo at holding themselves in wind. I do not believe that DJI would not take that into account.

It's simple physics that the less mass something has, the more it'll be effected by an applied force. Yes, with enough power, a quad can overcome that, but in doing so, it will be pitching/banking much more than a quad with more weight. More pitching/banking will mean the gimbal will need to counter all that. Maybe the Mavic will be fine, DJI is obviously has a lot of experience and experience in this area, but that remains to be seen.

Furthermore I have seen Mavic in action and know it handles wind as well as anything available now.

Unless you've seen it flown in the same adverse conditions you've observed others, you're speculating, which is fine, but you should acknowledge that. I just take issue when someone claims "to know" something that they just don't.

As I've said several times, I'm not criticizing the Mavic, it looks like an awesome little quad. But from everything I've read/seen/watched about it, it wasn't designed and built specifically for aerial video. Their promotional videos seem to tout it's FPV racing applicability more than anything. That's cool, FPV racing is cool, I like watching the videos as much as the next person, but what makes a good FPV quad to zip around trees and through canyons at low level does not make a good camera platform for smooth cinematic video. I would love to buy a Mavic for the times I DO want to zip around trees or fly fast at low levels, but it wouldn't replace the Solo for smoother shots.


Mavic would be a great compliment to Solo, and at this point, a used Solo isn't hardly worth selling, so as a companion quad, hell yea, I'd love one too! But as a "do everything Solo can AND more", I just don't see that happening.

 

[Mountain Flyer]

Unless you've seen it flown in the same adverse conditions you've observed others, you're speculating, which is fine, but you should acknowledge that. I just take issue when someone claims "to know" something that they just don't.

I have physically and in person seen it fly. Multicopter Warehouse has one (Maybe a loaner but they had one when I stopped in) and they were more than happy to demonstrate it for me. It handles wind as well as Solo or a PH4. The camera quality is also very good if you bother to read the directions and focus it. I'm not repeating crap I saw in vids and have seen it with my own eyes. Sucks I still have to wait for my own but it will be a nice addition to the fleet. I still think Solo handles smart shots better and cables are smoother so Solo will stay in the back of the SUV with Mavic for work but I still bought Mavic. I am not a fan of any particular make or model. I buy what makes sense and will improve my job of taking aerial photography and video by making it easier or take less time to do. Mavics camera is very good for it's size and there are times when I feel the portability will be useful but I see zero advantage to Karma over what I already have. Just saying, if you are going to spend the money Karma just doesn't make sense. It has NOTHING new to offer besides the removable gimbal. If you really like the fisheye and spending a lot of time processing what you shouldn't have to, go ahead and get Karma but it isn't a step forward into something better. It's just more of the same. The Mavic video I found to be as good as what I get from a GoPro but it has options available to me that will allow me to get HDR images a lot easier than I can using a GoPro. I don't want Mavic for video I plan to use it for a flying camera taking stills I can convert to HDR. While the smart shots are not as good I found the video to be as smooth as solo and for a good pilot that can fly without smart shots I feel it will be a valuable addition that actually has value.

 

[User Name]

I have physically and in person seen it fly. Multicopter Warehouse has one (Maybe a loaner but they had one when I stopped in) and they were more than happy to demonstrate it for me. It handles wind as well as Solo or a PH4.

So you saw it flying *in windy conditions*? If not, then you simply can't state as a matter of fact how well it'll handle such. That's all I was suggesting.

But I agree with you otherwise, Mavic will definitely excel at certain things, and I'm sure the camera is fine (I've read it's the same sensor as the Phantom 4). And I agree that Karma is overall mostly a side-grade to the Solo, the only way it's an upgrade is if you really want/need the removable gimbal and/or want to use a Hero 5. Otherwise, it's mostly a downgrade in terms of autonomous smart shots. Maybe that'll improve with the ex-3DR developers, but they'll be constrained by what's onboard the Karma, and I haven't read that it has the same on-board processing as the Solo does.

 

[Mountain Flyer]

So you saw it flying *in windy conditions*?

It's Colorado. This time of year it gets windy a lot and the day they demonstrated it was no exception. Hover said 15 mph but I am sure it was closer to 20 and gusting much higher at points in the flight and it handled it as well as Solo. Even in wind the positional hold is a lot better than a factory solo. There was some movement but no more than with Solo and the actual positional hold was a smaller bubble than a Solo has with a factory GPS (Rev A or B). The positional hold was more like Solo with mRo GPS and I was rather impressed given it's size. While the battery on Mavic is not quite as heavy as Solo there is still significant weight to it. IMO people are confusing folds small with is small. Another thing to keep in mind, they don't call the stadium Mile High for nothing. It was also doing all of this in thinner air than most places in the USA.

 

[twitchyzero]

how dare you try to bring supporting evidence against User Name's argument

i think there's a video floating around demonstrating how well the MavPro does in the wind against P4

 

[Mountain Flyer]

I'm just trying to inform. Not many people have actually seen a Mavic in person yet and there is a lot of speculation as to what it can do. As somebody who has seen it in action I can honestly say that I had no problems with pre ordering that day. I love my Solos and will keep using them (maybe even buy a few more) but I see the added value of Mavic and and what it can do. While we can all agree that the object avoidance is hit or miss it is definitely better than none at all and from what I saw works rather well. Keep in mind that it uses cameras and can't see at night so it doesn't work in the dark at all but from what I saw is very effective during the daytime. Anything with OA will have the same issues but it works as well or better than PH4 and a lot better than a Yuneec.

 

[Marich]

Having flown almost my entire life, from model planes to Cessnas, from knocking together homebuilt aircraft in my garage over the years I wasn't skydiving to Cloud Camping with a 226 pound Ultralight aircraft in unimaginable weather conditions, I can definitely tell you this: the heavier the aircraft is in direct proportion to its size the less effort it expends dealing with wind.
That ridiculously heavy Solo - compared to similar sized drones - does so we well in a virtual gale because of its weight. Lighter craft will be fighting like crazy, looking like a boxer in the ring leaning against the ropes for support.
A light drone (again, proportional to weight/mass) will expend the great part of its battery just leaning against the wind.

 

[Mountain Flyer]

That's fine, but if you can't tell and it is still getting almost the same flight time as without wind is it a huge factor? I didn't think so and pre-ordered that day. Speculate all you want. I have held Mavic in my hands and seen it in action and had no issues with making my order. I might buy an H5, I might even make myself a gimbal for it with parts from China(done it before and made it with tilt and pan). I don't see anything innovative, new or better about Karma itself though and cannot take it seriously as something that is supposed to be an improvement over what is already available.

 

[KrisTheAJ]

I've been thinking of ordering a Karma. I was at a show recently and saw a Mavic, which I thought was too small, but I've had good luck with GoPro in the past and success with customer support.

The end of Solo development by 3DR - re Forbes article, I don't feel it's prudent to put money into spare Bestbuy discounted Solo's, as no one is going to develop for them.

I'd like some comments and thoughts from others. Please no flaming, I love my Solo, but I want a product with a more solid future.

Thanks

Hi mate, I think solo has a solid future, it just may not get any more updates. I feel there is plenty of features in solo to do most things most of us could ever need. In regard to size, the new drones like mavic and karma are smaller but time will tell if this is a good thing or not. I also think karmas batteries may be a bit of a let down in regard to flight time. I would keep solo for a while yet and enjoy what it does, flies and takes amazing footage, there will always be something better on the horizon and often straight after you buy something. I will upgrade one day but will Watch the market, read reviews and wait for the right time to reinvest. Happy flying mate, exciting times ahead for drone flyers I think.

 

[Marich]

That's fine, but if you can't tell and it is still getting almost the same flight time as without wind is it a huge factor? I didn't think so and pre-ordered that day. Speculate all you want. I have held Mavic in my hands and seen it in action and had no issues with making my order. I might buy an H5, I might even make myself a gimbal for it with parts from China(done it before and made it with tilt and pan). I don't see anything innovative, new or better about Karma itself though and cannot take it seriously as something that is supposed to be an improvement over what is already available.

I'm not even sure what we're arguing about. Mavic may be a perfectly capable drone, fly well, and have decent features. Hell, were I rich I'd buy every drone as it became available.
Here's the thing: Solo was envisioned from the start as a video tool, and to this date excels at that. Reading Mavic's specs, there's absolutely nothing it does that Solo doesn't do.
And it lacks the thing that truly puts Solo over the top: its amazing smart shots that make capturing good video possible with only a single operator - hence the name Solo!
I like pretty much all drones. I own my share and try staying up-to-date with the industry. That being said, whenever someone asks if I can film I one of my "flying camera-thingy" videos for them, maybe a vid of a local band doing their thing while in an open field, say, or my landlord asking for an birds-eye view of our apartment building to check the condition of the roofing - it's always Solo I drag it and send up.
I don't do this because I'm a 3DR cheerleader or because - like so, so many folks who only own one drone and therefore are desperate try to convince others it's the best thing in the air - I use Solo very simply because it's the best tool available.
If I thought my Phantom 4 would do the job better than Solo I'd use it. For crying out loud, even some of the stuff I've gotten with my squirty little Bebop 2 seems amazing to some who're unaware of what's really possible.
I've never seen a single person extolling the virtues of their chosen bird vs. Solo actually produce actual video that backed them up.

 

[Crisp Rice]

I think that Karma will be the way forward for me also.

I have read on GoPros support forums that Karma actually allows for take off and landing on a moving surface (boat mode?).
Solved: Boat launch - GOPRO SUPPORT HUB

This is huge for me and if I understand this, may imply that the software guys who left 3DR for Go Pro have managed to do what was discussed for Solo in this regard. I have read on Phantom forums that DJI absolutely disallow take off unless the drone is level and still during initialisation, yes people are managing to take off from boats but they will have the same response I got from 3DR if it goes into the water.

If GoPro are saying we can do it, it will be very difficult for them to use that as an excuse to not be responsible for a flyaway after I took off from my boat.

Assuming that I am not completely off base, this is actually something that makes the Karma superior to what is currently available and not just a side grade to the Solo, at least for me and anyone else who flies from boats at all.