KP index. Don't fly if it's greater than 7

[erikgraham]

Common wisdom seems to be that you shouldn't fly if the KP index is greater than 7.

I'll admit to hardly ever checking unless GPS seems erratic. I'm curious what other think here.

For all the new Solo owners post Christmas, I thought it might be worthwhile to alert them to the KP index. Below is a link with some info, but basically it's geomagnetic interference that can screw with your Solo's GPS and compass, making it difficult (or dangerous) to fly.

The Kp-index | Help | SpaceWeatherLive.com

 

[Jubalr]

Common wisdom seems to be that you shouldn't fly if the KP index is greater than 7.

I'll admit to hardly ever checking unless GPS seems erratic. I'm curious what other think here.

For all the new Solo owners post Christmas, I thought it might be worthwhile to alert them to the KP index. Below is a link with some info, but basically it's geomagnetic interference that can screw with your Solo's GPS and compass, making it difficult (or dangerous) to fly.

The Kp-index | Help | SpaceWeatherLive.com

Guess it could be crucial when learning, but I always stress that new fliers should be learning manual before moving on to other modes. I've never checked or heard of KP index until this forum, but I have always flown more manual than anything anyway.

 

[LuvMyTJ]

This comes up frequently on the PP forum. The general consensus is that it would have to be so bad you would have issues with other electronics before you will see a problem with your UAV and it has not happened yet so in other words, don't worry about it and go fly.

 

[EyeWingsuit]

This is a significant concern in the world of wingsuit sporting.
Enough so, the world scoring page for all airsports have an indicator in the lower left corner. KP index or flares are too high, we are not able to compete.
Paralog Performance Competition - Overview

 

[Maddog]

I've never heard of a drone mishap that was caused/influenced by this- anybody else?

 

[Chuck]

I haven't heard of any mishaps, but I put an app on my phone from the Play Store for monitoring the KP index. I was flying once, and my Solo was drifting a lot while hovering about 8 ft. off the ground. I landed and did a compass calibration. After taking off again, it drifted like before. I landed, and was thinking of doing another compass calibration, when I remembered my KP app. I checked, and it read 7. I heard somewhere that anything greater than 5 would affect the GPS, so rather than take a chance I just called it a day. I went out 2 days later, and the KP index was at 2, and while in a hover it was rock steady. It was not a very scientific study, but now I check the index before I even unpack my bird. For me, it is just eliminating another potential problem.

 

[EyeWingsuit]

I've never heard of a drone mishap that was caused/influenced by this- anybody else?

Never heard of it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't/hasn't happened. While flying with a GPS is relatively new to many, using GPS for aerial positional logging is not. As an FAI International judge, I spend a tremendous amount of time each year looking at GPS log files. We are required to parse any questionable logs, using Excel. There are many, many times that we'll see entire strings, sometimes as long as 10 seconds, where signals are not just inaccurate, but reporting wild and extremely varied readings. One time we had a GPS log that showed a competitor flying in China, Europe, and over the Atlantic ocean within a 75 second span. He was actually overflying Chicago.

FWIW, the FAI is already looking into this aspect of drone competition. They already govern aerial R/C competition as it is.

Although there may have been no reported mishaps, they've likely happened to unseasoned operators. Those that are flying in manual modes, or are able to reflexively switch from GPS to manual mode are less likely to have an issue yet I'd suggest that most would have no clue. Geolocation plays a role in the susceptibility as well.

The presence of solar phenomena isn't enough to ground my UAV, but they are enough of an issue that I'd hate to not be aware of the potential.

 

[erikgraham]

I've never heard of a drone mishap that was caused/influenced by this- anybody else?

Sure. I always suspect it when I see folks post about erratic GPS. It's probably caused more than its fair share of crashes and gone undiagnosed. You know when people complain about their drone drifting around while in GPS and it hits the garage or something like that. Most times it's just that they were too close to buildings or trees and didn't have a clean GPS signal, but occasionally it might be a high KP.

Having said that, it's not something I worry much about. And I definitely don't check it before I fly as much as I should.

 

[Maddog]

Never heard of it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't/hasn't happened. While flying with a GPS is relatively new to many, using GPS for aerial positional logging is not. As an FAI International judge, I spend a tremendous amount of time each year looking at GPS log files. We are required to parse any questionable logs, using Excel. There are many, many times that we'll see entire strings, sometimes as long as 10 seconds, where signals are not just inaccurate, but reporting wild and extremely varied readings. One time we had a GPS log that showed a competitor flying in China, Europe, and over the Atlantic ocean within a 75 second span. He was actually overflying Chicago.

FWIW, the FAI is already looking into this aspect of drone competition. They already govern aerial R/C competition as it is.

Although there may have been no reported mishaps, they've likely happened to unseasoned operators. Those that are flying in manual modes, or are able to reflexively switch from GPS to manual mode are less likely to have an issue yet I'd suggest that most would have no clue. Geolocation plays a role in the susceptibility as well.

The presence of solar phenomena isn't enough to ground my UAV, but they are enough of an issue that I'd hate to not be aware of the potential.

Interesting subject for sure. Did anyone think to compare the erratic log activity to KP activity at the time? That might be really revealing.

 

[Maddog]

I haven't heard of any mishaps, but I put an app on my phone from the Play Store for monitoring the KP index. I was flying once, and my Solo was drifting a lot while hovering about 8 ft. off the ground. I landed and did a compass calibration. After taking off again, it drifted like before. I landed, and was thinking of doing another compass calibration, when I remembered my KP app. I checked, and it read 7. I heard somewhere that anything greater than 5 would affect the GPS, so rather than take a chance I just called it a day. I went out 2 days later, and the KP index was at 2, and while in a hover it was rock steady. It was not a very scientific study, but now I check the index before I even unpack my bird. For me, it is just eliminating another potential problem.

Might not be scientific, but still something to pay attention to.
(I have a KP app too but haven't seen KP over 7 so I could go conduct a test flight). Will keep watching.

 

[Deleted member 3203]

Great information. I'm new to to flying quadcopters and new to 3DR pilots so thanks for the insightful info. This is a great forum and I look forward to continuously learning from everyone. I now have an app on my iPhone so it will be interesting to correlate any erratic positioning with the KP index.

 

[Han Solo]

I had a crash a couple of months ago that 3dr support, after examining the log attributed the bad flying to magnetic interference. I was about 30 to 40 feet away from a building made of steel, and took off from steps made of reinforced concrete. So, knowing about this in the future may prevent some future mishaps. Gotta get.me one of those apps.

 

[Deleted member 3203]

I had a crash a couple of months ago that 3dr support, after examining the log attributed the bad flying to magnetic interference. I was about 30 to 40 feet away from a building made of steel, and took off from steps made of reinforced concrete. So, knowing about this in the future may prevent some future mishaps. Gotta get.me one of those apps.

I just downloaded Solar Sphere form the App Store. Currently reporting a KP of 3 right now.

 

[Solo Keith]

Also try B4U Fly app. Has the KP index as well as just about all other flying conditions

 

[Deleted member 3203]

Also try B4U Fly app. Has the KP index as well as just about all other flying conditions

Thanks for the recommendation. I've installed this and learned that I'm less that a mile from a privately owned runway that doesn't show up on any of my map apps. I'll be putting in a call to the owner to figure out how often this is used.

 

[UCLABruins]

I disagree. I've flown at high values with no issues. I've consistently gotten 12-18 birds every time.

 

[Chuck]

I don't think the problem is acquiring the satellites, but rather having the magnetic interference disrupt the signal at any given time. That is one good reason to learn to fly in Manual in case you lose your gps signal.

 

[Marlene]

Common wisdom seems to be that you shouldn't fly if the KP index is greater than 7.

I'll admit to hardly ever checking unless GPS seems erratic. I'm curious what other think here.

For all the new Solo owners post Christmas, I thought it might be worthwhile to alert them to the KP index. Below is a link with some info, but basically it's geomagnetic interference that can screw with your Solo's GPS and compass, making it difficult (or dangerous) to fly.

The Kp-index | Help | SpaceWeatherLive.com

My kp app states don't fly when it's 5 and up...

 

[erikgraham]

I don't think the problem is acquiring the satellites, but rather having the magnetic interference disrupt the signal at any given time. That is one good reason to learn to fly in Manual in case you lose your gps signal.

Agreed. GPS gives a drone it's X Y position on the map. Compass gives a drone it's heading. When the compass is experiencing interference the drone will constantly try to correct. But it never gets there and you end up with toilet bowling. This can appear to be drifting from poor GPS. It's worse when you try to maneuver, because the drone thinks it's flying in one direction according to its compass heading, but GPS reports its moving in a different direction, so it tries to correct that and get back to where it thought it was going, but it can't because the heading is wrong, and the corrections start multiplying. You have to switch to Alt Hold (Solo pilots call that Fly:Manual) to bring it back in.

So even if the GPS is rock solid, a compass experiencing interference can make it appear to be having GPS issues.

Also, I *think* a very high KP value can effect the GPS directly, so then your dealing with both an inaccurate compass heading and poor GPS location data... but I'm not sure about that.

 

[erikgraham]

My kp app states don't fly when it's 5 and up...

I've also heard 5, but it seems like 7 is more generally accepted as the limit. That's not based on hard evidence though. Just my recollection of various blog posts and forum topics on the subject over the years.