Gimbal data cable - Admitted wrong theory
- Thread starter RichWest
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HHmmm ..the more I learn from you Rich, the more I can spot micro vibes on other videos... 
17.45 meters "shake" per 1 degree gimbal "shake" per 1,000 meters object distance is indeed visible.
This is a bit out of topic for vibration thingy, but it is relevant to gimbal.
This brings me to what I been doing the past few days where I got to mess with AlexMos ( BaseCam ) gimbal controller for my oldie 1st gen Nebula 4000 3-axis gimbal for Panasonic GH-4. I bought this like in 2014 but only few days ago I actually play with it, but with LX-100 and not GH-4 This is still old 8 bit board, single IMU.
The yaw is awfully dumb hahaha. The original PID setting sucks and I need to go to Youtube for help...LOL.
I learn a few things while messing with the AlexMos SimpleBCG.
I feel so blessed that I do not need to mess with such setting on Solo, as the camera weight is already dialed-in well and the camera placement is always the same.
Thanks for your never ending perfection seeking experiments... I LOVE IT !!!!
17.45 meters "shake" per 1 degree gimbal "shake" per 1,000 meters object distance is indeed visible.
This is a bit out of topic for vibration thingy, but it is relevant to gimbal.
This brings me to what I been doing the past few days where I got to mess with AlexMos ( BaseCam ) gimbal controller for my oldie 1st gen Nebula 4000 3-axis gimbal for Panasonic GH-4. I bought this like in 2014 but only few days ago I actually play with it, but with LX-100 and not GH-4 This is still old 8 bit board, single IMU.
The yaw is awfully dumb hahaha. The original PID setting sucks and I need to go to Youtube for help...LOL.
I learn a few things while messing with the AlexMos SimpleBCG.
I feel so blessed that I do not need to mess with such setting on Solo, as the camera weight is already dialed-in well and the camera placement is always the same.
Thanks for your never ending perfection seeking experiments... I LOVE IT !!!!
I think everyone can agree that the macro vibes can be removed further with some post software efforts. Starting out with stable video makes processing much easier and more rewarding.HHmmm ..the more I learn from you Rich, the more I can spot micro vibes on other videos...
17.45 meters "shake" per 1 degree gimbal "shake" per 1,000 meters object distance is indeed visible.
User Name's patch cord provides frame to frame clarity that I wasn't getting consistently before. The modest GP sensor has actually become more dynamic from this experience. Filters are better able to serve the intended purpose without smushing the video.
No doubt camera/gimbal balance is key to the efforts. The last few weeks I have been focusing on the patch cable improvements, as well as dealing with maintenance issues with Solo. I can see now that the original stiff cable was helping reduce the macro vibes in my install.
That's been the cool thing about Solo and its gimbal. I've been working from at least two gimbals during this endeavor. Swapping them out as changes are made provides the necessary feedback. The gimbals are consistent unit to unit.
Software post is almost required, but it still helps to get it as smooth as possible
watch for deals on Prodrynilin 2 it is damn good at this for a reasonable price.
For what its worth, I have never finished a video without using it on all my gimbal work, hand held and flying.
I really wish we could crack the code to drive a nicer gimbal but that is not making much progress
watch for deals on Prodrynilin 2 it is damn good at this for a reasonable price.
For what its worth, I have never finished a video without using it on all my gimbal work, hand held and flying.
I really wish we could crack the code to drive a nicer gimbal but that is not making much progress
Thanks Pyrate on the ProDranile anti shaker software info. For micro vibes it would surely work well yah.
For big vibe its correction looks weird
For big vibe its correction looks weird
agree, I use it to get the last little shakes out
you can turn the pan smoothing up too to smooth out jerky turns
you can turn the pan smoothing up too to smooth out jerky turns
Damn, with such wind and Solo correctional movement, your gimbal does not micro twitch ..awesome !!
But my last test was stronger sudden gust of wind
But my last test was stronger sudden gust of wind
At the time of flight the bird appeared to be flying in lite winds, really stable positioning. I don't have a choice, being 50 miles inland and as flat as a board, we have wind. I've always been interested in what effect the frwy has, heat island.
Found it interesting the lack of using a filter and my results. I shot the same at -0.5 EV and couldn't adjust down the highlights as well. Like I've said before, the camera dynamics has improved by adding the patch cable.
If you haven't already, the sorbothane mod between the main board and battery tray will reduce some of the correctional twitch. Properly placed, four 1/4" rounds of 3/16" thick material seems the most effective.
Just sharing, I appreciate the comments. Solo 2.0
Found it interesting the lack of using a filter and my results. I shot the same at -0.5 EV and couldn't adjust down the highlights as well. Like I've said before, the camera dynamics has improved by adding the patch cable.
If you haven't already, the sorbothane mod between the main board and battery tray will reduce some of the correctional twitch. Properly placed, four 1/4" rounds of 3/16" thick material seems the most effective.
Just sharing, I appreciate the comments. Solo 2.0
that was solid right there, I find the vibes tend to reveal themselves more often in hover or side to side yaw
The narrow frame has something to do with it when the bird is rolled. One side is worse than the other in my experience. I have to assume the culprit is the hdmi cable hitting somewhere. If I half throttle its been little to no issues, but I prefer full throttle...
Since you asked nicely....lateral flight test. Five passes,the second one appears the best. This was shot with no filter and the EV at -0.5
The motion blur is interesting, little world like.
Since you asked nicely....lateral flight test. Five passes,the second one appears the best. This was shot with no filter and the EV at -0.5
The motion blur is interesting, little world like.
Rich,
Tell me if this make sense :
Most of the twitching is most obvious on the left side. Surely it is during direction change between stop at left direction movement , accelerate for right direction movement. GoPro lens/sensor is not mid center for yaw & roll axis, so it is not 100% centered.
I am sure a camera sensor not being in the middle of the axis will get any twitching amplified ..make sense ?
I been wondering about this from my last few flights.
I saw my Phantom 3 advance camera's sensor is still a bit to the left, as seen from rear of craft.
My Phantom 4 camera's sensor is already dead mid center.
To the mathematic guys, how much extra movement in millimeters per 1 cm away from mid center is occurring to a Hero 4 sensor not in the middle ? GoPro Sony sensor IMX117 is 7.81mm diagonal
Like on a rocking boat, we would sit mid center to feel the least motion misery.
I think our handicap with Hero4 sensor being not mid center of gimbal, sudden position change like in windy condition or like the test you did, will be visible to a trained eye. But the good thing is, humans vision is so narrow actually and everyone will focus on the middle of their monitor, so our micro twitching unless severe wont be seen....
Make sense Rich ?
Tell me if this make sense :
Most of the twitching is most obvious on the left side. Surely it is during direction change between stop at left direction movement , accelerate for right direction movement. GoPro lens/sensor is not mid center for yaw & roll axis, so it is not 100% centered.
I am sure a camera sensor not being in the middle of the axis will get any twitching amplified ..make sense ?
I been wondering about this from my last few flights.
I saw my Phantom 3 advance camera's sensor is still a bit to the left, as seen from rear of craft.
My Phantom 4 camera's sensor is already dead mid center.
To the mathematic guys, how much extra movement in millimeters per 1 cm away from mid center is occurring to a Hero 4 sensor not in the middle ? GoPro Sony sensor IMX117 is 7.81mm diagonal
Like on a rocking boat, we would sit mid center to feel the least motion misery.
I think our handicap with Hero4 sensor being not mid center of gimbal, sudden position change like in windy condition or like the test you did, will be visible to a trained eye. But the good thing is, humans vision is so narrow actually and everyone will focus on the middle of their monitor, so our micro twitching unless severe wont be seen....
Make sense Rich ?
You make valid points, actually a good case...but still the question is why more prevalent on one side versus the other? The boat analogy is interesting, I'd like to think that through before before agreeing....fairly certain the gimbal can compensate for the offset.
The gimbal/camera should react the same regardless of the orientation as to roll, just like pitching forward or back should react the same. Have you ever filmed flying backwards? Flying backwards tends to reveal vibes as well. To me the common quadrant for vibes is the right rear isolator in the high position, where the hdmi cable is making the first bend around the isolator. I believe the hdmi cable is either contacting the main board or the support for the main board. Were you the one to cut the support off fully? I don't agree with its complete removal, being that it supports the main board and more importantly the FC.
In either case, the tight confines makes less abilities to resolve. The clearance between the gimbal and the main board is around 6mm. I have been able to maintain a macro free vibe flights in the past regardless of the orientation of flight. I'm sure you've seen enough of my videos now to know I test in all directions of flight and am partial to aggressive speeds. The challenge for me was attempting to solve both micro and macro vibes at the same time.
Without question the data patch cable solves the majority of the micro vibes. Which now allows myself and others to narrow further where/how to resolve the macro vibes. The interesting thing is that this is not a Solo only issue. Like you said, the trained eye see's more than the majority of viewers, It drives me crazy seeing aerial videos with the shakes or stutter.
I think it is just a matter of time and this will be resolved to an agreeable level. I do appreciate your perspective and conversation on the subject. It is an interesting challenge, I've learned a great deal from the endeavor.
The gimbal/camera should react the same regardless of the orientation as to roll, just like pitching forward or back should react the same. Have you ever filmed flying backwards? Flying backwards tends to reveal vibes as well. To me the common quadrant for vibes is the right rear isolator in the high position, where the hdmi cable is making the first bend around the isolator. I believe the hdmi cable is either contacting the main board or the support for the main board. Were you the one to cut the support off fully? I don't agree with its complete removal, being that it supports the main board and more importantly the FC.
In either case, the tight confines makes less abilities to resolve. The clearance between the gimbal and the main board is around 6mm. I have been able to maintain a macro free vibe flights in the past regardless of the orientation of flight. I'm sure you've seen enough of my videos now to know I test in all directions of flight and am partial to aggressive speeds. The challenge for me was attempting to solve both micro and macro vibes at the same time.
Without question the data patch cable solves the majority of the micro vibes. Which now allows myself and others to narrow further where/how to resolve the macro vibes. The interesting thing is that this is not a Solo only issue. Like you said, the trained eye see's more than the majority of viewers, It drives me crazy seeing aerial videos with the shakes or stutter.
I think it is just a matter of time and this will be resolved to an agreeable level. I do appreciate your perspective and conversation on the subject. It is an interesting challenge, I've learned a great deal from the endeavor.
I dont have enough flying hours like you Rich, but thinking about how GoPro cmos sensor is far away from gimbal correctional axis, that is why got me thinking. The roll axis effect will be the worst I think.
Also I think there is a technical limitation to any gimbal which does not use encoder for accurate positioning data. Brushless motors without encoders will have slip for sure, its obvious for yaw slip in a common in any handheld 3 axis gimbal.
I recently got Zhiyun Crane 1.8kg rated handheld gimbal, it has ecoders and 3 IMU 32 bit.
This is my first gimbal with encoder. Its much-much-much better than my older 8 bit single IMU Nebula 4000 gimbal, which in 2014 was the first single-hand handheld gimbal to be able to carry Panasonic GH-4 payload.
I got many gimbals for GoPro, like 5 different brands.I am sure none has encoder.
Any gimbal in flight that can not level itself fast, after aggressive maneuver , that for sure no encoder built in.
I been testing servo motors with encoders, not for gimbal thingy, but the education is good for me to understand gimbal limitation. The magnetic poles of brushless motors or stepper motors thru some technique can me made to do accurate movement in degrees, in fact I read that it can do less than 1 degree...but there is a big but, slip will eventually occur if there is no encoder to actually track position.
An industrial servo motor with encoder can have 1,000 counts for 360 degrees rotation. That results in 0.36 degree increment....holy cow.
Now lets dream a bit. Solo internal Linux brain is the rare brain that also figure out where the gimbal should be pointing, and not gimbal own brain doing the math. Come all the nice mods that you did for the gimbal and whatever friction reducing method and whatever vibration transfer reduction mod you did......then add an encoder. Damn, I think the result will be awesome.
For me my 4.4mm lens bring more obvious shaky shaky due to magnification...too bad.
I think with all your mods, low wind gust or windless day, a properly set up smart move for video shoot purpose will yield maximum result and would be awesome.
I really respect your tireless pursue for perfection.
Me simply copy your mod...
Also I think there is a technical limitation to any gimbal which does not use encoder for accurate positioning data. Brushless motors without encoders will have slip for sure, its obvious for yaw slip in a common in any handheld 3 axis gimbal.
I recently got Zhiyun Crane 1.8kg rated handheld gimbal, it has ecoders and 3 IMU 32 bit.
This is my first gimbal with encoder. Its much-much-much better than my older 8 bit single IMU Nebula 4000 gimbal, which in 2014 was the first single-hand handheld gimbal to be able to carry Panasonic GH-4 payload.
I got many gimbals for GoPro, like 5 different brands.I am sure none has encoder.
Any gimbal in flight that can not level itself fast, after aggressive maneuver , that for sure no encoder built in.
I been testing servo motors with encoders, not for gimbal thingy, but the education is good for me to understand gimbal limitation. The magnetic poles of brushless motors or stepper motors thru some technique can me made to do accurate movement in degrees, in fact I read that it can do less than 1 degree...but there is a big but, slip will eventually occur if there is no encoder to actually track position.
An industrial servo motor with encoder can have 1,000 counts for 360 degrees rotation. That results in 0.36 degree increment....holy cow.
Now lets dream a bit. Solo internal Linux brain is the rare brain that also figure out where the gimbal should be pointing, and not gimbal own brain doing the math. Come all the nice mods that you did for the gimbal and whatever friction reducing method and whatever vibration transfer reduction mod you did......then add an encoder. Damn, I think the result will be awesome.
For me my 4.4mm lens bring more obvious shaky shaky due to magnification...too bad.
I think with all your mods, low wind gust or windless day, a properly set up smart move for video shoot purpose will yield maximum result and would be awesome.
I really respect your tireless pursue for perfection.
Me simply copy your mod...
Uh...the Solo gimbal has encoders. It's actually one of the key things that distinguishes Solo from others. I'm currently awaiting a destroyed gimbal to verify with my own eyes, but I don't even think there is an IMU in the gimbal, just encoders...
gimbal uses ordinary potentiometers for angle feedback
look at the PCB images, you will find them very quickly:
GIMBAL TEARDOWN - SORT OF (and now with some rebuild)
look at the PCB images, you will find them very quickly:
GIMBAL TEARDOWN - SORT OF (and now with some rebuild)
You're absolutely correct. My brain looked at the images and thought they looked like optical encoders, so that's what I remembered.
Either way, angle feedback is present, and that is somewhat unique among gimbals. Or was....
Either way, angle feedback is present, and that is somewhat unique among gimbals. Or was....
I think angle feedback is nice compared to none. Amazing that the motors are Japanese. No wonder it is strong.
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