Auto return home crashed my Solo

[Fenderbender]

they cant hold your hand the entire time

Hand holding... greater safety... whatever you want to call it.

 

[J R]

My controller is straight from factory.

Fender,

Seriously, I intend no disrespect. IMHO, you're barking up the wrong tree. Let's take it from a slightly different viewpoint. You heard about a Solo MR. You thought it might be cool to have one. You do some research and realize that this is a $2-2.5k investment. That alone should have got your sphincter a bit tight. Okay, so now you decide that you want to move forward with this fairly sizable investment. What did you do next?

Here's my scenario. I saw a news report on Amazon possibly using drones to do deliveries. First time I think I saw a drone. I thought that looks cool. I went on to the Internet and started researching them. I found a consumer oriented drone that I could purchase for about $1,500! I could buy this thing, pull it out of the box, charge the batteries and I'd be a drone pilot! I told the wife that I thought I was going to buy one of these. Then I got cold feet, $1,500 that's not chump change. What if I get the wrong one? What if there's a better, cheaper one?

Research time! Took me a few days to realize that my original thought was totally incorrect. This thing wasn't coming out of the box and going into the air, not a chance in hell. Not only that but there were probably a few things I needed to learn first. Kept my eye on the $1,500 copter but determined through MY OWN DUE DILIGENCE that there was a lot to learn before purchasing and deploying that thing. From reading and researching, invested a couple of hundred on a few small "dumb" drones. Wow what an awakening! Took me a month to be able to fly one of those things. I could go on and on but by now you should get my point.

I now own and successfully fly 3 smart UAV's. The latest being my Solo. After finding this forum, reading, reading and reading some more I decided I wanted to make the investment. I went and purchased my Solo. I joined this forum and started asking questions. My solo sat on my table for a good week before a propellor even got put on it. When it did go in the air, it went in manual mode. I asked about the GPS stuff. I think it was Jubalr who first told me about putting manual on the A button. I chose the B button because I was afraid it would be easier to hit the A button by accident. To this date, I have not had a negative event while flying my Solo. I've had a few issues but fortunately no accidents "yet", tomorrow may be different.

Doing your own due diligence prior to putting your bird in the air should have enlightened you about many of the things you're bring up now. Trying to put it back on the manufacturer at this point is moot. Programming manual mode into the A or B button and learning to fly in manual mode is all over this and other forums. The leg work was already done for you by those that came before you. I submit that you didn't do YOUR due diligence.

No biggie, we all make mistakes. I'm sure I make more than most. Instead of trying to justify your negative experience, you'd be better served by investing that energy into learning from all of the people here that are willing to share their intelligence, expertise, experiences and advice. I don't have the breadth of knowledge that many possess here. I don't think I'd be successfully flying if I wasn't able forums such as this.

All just my opinion of course. Take it or leave it, it's totally your choice.

Jerry

 

[Lon Snyder]

There will be a huge number of crashes after Christmas as new pilots buy from Bestbuy and don't do their due diligence;

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fenderbender]

I could type a long post about my scenario and about my past experience which I think I mentioned already. But I think it will fall on deaf ears and everyone will just assume how I am and the way I do things. You think I just saw a cool toy bought it and immediately went home and threw it into the air. Ok. You really have no idea. What I really want out of this is for this to not happen to anyone else. Suggesting a change from the manufacturer that would be a simple update and will make it a lot harder for that to happen is for some reason not accepted. I'm not asking for intelligent obstacle avoidance although that would be pretty awesome. Everyone has this "ugh... dang new pilots" mentality and its based off assumption. My Solo is not a toy but a tool. I just really don't think it should automatically take control and you have to fight to get it back UNLESS the controller has failed in some way. I've seen plenty of videos of 3DR breaking their own rules flying these near people and obstacles. I'm upset at them for using that as the reason for denying my claim. If they would have said "You could have avoided this if you hit the fly button. It disengages auto RTL." This never came up anywhere. Like I keep saying... If I engaged RTL myself and it hit something none of you would even know about me, because I wouldn't be here talking about it. THAT would have been my fault. They keep saying that there was no hardware failure and I never even said anything about hardware failure. I suggested that the software took control from the operator at a very bad time. Solo did what it was supposed to do according to the way it's programmed, but it was not the RIGHT thing to do. A machine doesn't know this. A person does. I just don't want it to take control from me if everything is functioning correctly not even for a second and don't say anything about GPS keep it hovering as me not controlling it. If I tell it to move it better move in the direction I specify no matter what is happening. I might just be trying to avoid a dangerous situation. If I crashed it in a smart shot I would fully accept that as failure on my part too, because I set up that smart shot. I believe It should do what I tell it at all times and if I run it into something or let the battery die completely then that is on me and I would accept that. This whole RTL on low battery is "new pilot" feature. I'd disable the heck out of it if it's possible which will be the next thing I research. What experienced pilot is going to ignore a low battery warning? Which inexperienced pilot is going to ignore one if the controller is constantly pulse vibrating after 10 percent instructing you to land immediately? Just a final warning with an override BEFORE engaging is all I ask. It would save more birds. And it would keep people from bothering you guys so much. Win Win.

 

[Acroduster]

If I may, Fenderbender, I believe your root point is that taking control should be an up-front, very obvious, and easy to do option well represented and highlighted in the manual. It is not - it is buried in section 4.9.2.

As for due diligence requiring getting on the forums, I completely disagree. The manual and carefully working through what is given should be enough for a consumer device that you can buy in a big box store. Had he pressed Fly shortly after the alarm, the crash would have been averted. Naturally, had he followed the manual to a T, he would have also only flown in a wide open area. Only when you want to start to push the envelope and go outside of what the manual recommends are you required to look for other sources of info. (What the hobbyists are saying is that with a $1800+ investment, prudence would say to go to the forums any way).

In conclusion, from the manufacturer's point of view, you were in the wrong. You did not follow the manual and were flying in a congested area and when headed to an obstruction, you did not use the Fly or Pause button to stop it. From the hobbyist's point of view, you were in the wrong. You did not delve deep enough into the forums to find out what is recommended when flying in congested areas.

Are some of your suggestions good? I think so - a greater pause between alarm and initiating RTH would be a good addition. Maybe sound the alarm at 11% and send it home at 10%...

 

[Fenderbender]

If I may, Fenderbender, I believe your root point is that taking control should be an up-front, very obvious, and easy to do option well represented and highlighted in the manual. It is not - it is buried in section 4.9.2.

As for due diligence requiring getting on the forums, I completely disagree. The manual and carefully working through what is given should be enough for a consumer device that you can buy in a big box store. Had he pressed Fly shortly after the alarm, the crash would have been averted. Naturally, had he followed the manual to a T, he would have also only flown in a wide open area. Only when you want to start to push the envelope and go outside of what the manual recommends are you required to look for other sources of info. (What the hobbyists are saying is that with a $1800+ investment, prudence would say to go to the forums any way).

In conclusion, from the manufacturer's point of view, you were in the wrong. You did not follow the manual and were flying in a congested area and when headed to an obstruction, you did not use the Fly or Pause button to stop it. From the hobbyist's point of view, you were in the wrong. You did not delve deep enough into the forums to find out what is recommended when flying in congested areas.

Are some of your suggestions good? I think so - a greater pause between alarm and initiating RTH would be a good addition. Maybe sound the alarm at 11% and send it home at 10%...

Pretty much got it. Which now that I know I could have hit fly I accept that the crash MAY have been avoided IF it works on a low battery RTH. That hasn't been determined yet. and even then momentum may have still carried it into the wire. It ascended pretty darn quick. If the right stick would have been working I could have moved it out of the way I was trying to strafe that direction anyway. I mean 4 inches is all it would have needed to move to miss the wires. it would be difficult to get any interesting footage if you followed the manual to a T also. I should mention I'm in West Virginia and there is no such thing as an open field really. I have a half acre of semi flat land and I already found out that solo does not like landing in my grass. I need the leg extensions and its pretty bumpy from the ground mole problem I have. I'm afraid of the gimbal hitting the ground before the legs do, But land on concrete and its all good.

 

[Lon Snyder]

The technology that makes these consumer UAVs so easy to fly also makes them very easy to crash if you don't do everything correctly. Between the Solo, the P3, and the Q5004k, they all have their pros/cons and their own quirks. From what I've seen, the Solo appears to have a bit more risk when flying in urban environments due to Solo's apparent occasional challenges with gps lock at ground level, gps-multipath, and wifi interference. Yes if it were programmed differently, you may not have crashed. But being near power lines put you at high risk with any UAV.

 

[J R]

You think I just saw a cool toy bought it and immediately went home and threw it into the air.

Fender,

I didn't say that, I was painting a scenario that's all. I also said that it was not my intent to imply any disrespect. As Acro said, some of your points are valid, I'm not trying to dispute them. I just hate to see you use so much energy. Acro is also right that it shouldn't be necessary for you to seek out forums to learn about a product that is presented to you in a big-box store. I use that example only because in this day and age it's such an invaluable tool. I'm not trying to be an a$$, just looking at it from a different perspective. A perspective that's really going to come to light over this holiday season.

Enough said from me. I'm sorry about your incident and I hope it gets resolved quickly. Peace and good luck!

Jerry

 

[Quality Control]

But here is a scenario none of us have brought up. You were flying in semi manual trying to land the Solo on a box but prop wash assisted your decision to abort that thought and have the assisted landing take place. Would it have caused less damage to just drown the thing in prop wash, force it down, have it tip over and MAYBE break a prop or two?

I am sorry to say I feel you are in the wrong too. I knew about advanced features after reading everything fully, I knew all the features and how to access them so saying you did not know that those options were available is pleeding ignorance to following instructions that are there.

The other reason 3DR and other off the shelf MR companies don't advertise manual flying as a pre-programmed, if introuble switch to this really fast is due to the fact of the skill level required. Depending on what you fly, some systems when in manual have no assisted input other than your radio sticks. First time fliers or even operators with say 10 flights under their belts cannot fly full manual to save their lives. I have seen it many times and I must say you need to really take that MR to an open field, baseball diamond, football field or farm field and practice, practice, practice. I know if I was in your situation,
1. a box would not be my take off and landing so there is your first bit of evidence that it is user error
2. I would never fly around people to show them my MR in a congested area taking off of pavement.

You are going to have a hard time convincing this forum or any for that matter that this was not user error. The feature works as described and does what it is supposed too. Most of us know depletion of a battery when at 25% is quite fast. I think you need to do some research on lipos, charge rates, depletion rates and temperatures.

I feel you have a lot to learn from this hobby and unfortunately you started the hard way. I am sorry for your crash. I hate when anyone crashes in such an expensive hobby.

 

[pyrate]

This one is going to boil down to 3Dr support and the user.
They can see exactly what happened in the logs and they are very forgiving in my opinion.
Seems to me like a valid point if you could not regain control, but most of us have been able to override RTH just fine, either with GPS or Not
so if yours is not working this will be between you and 3DR
I personally hope they dont change the way recovery features work. Took me a long time to learn how to use them.

 

[Fenderbender]

It wasn't interference that caused the crash though. I actually used the Solo to inspect the roof on my detached garage which the power line that runs to it is the line it hit in RTH and I flew all around that line with 0 problems and found out the reason my roof was leaking was because a tree branch fell on it and messed it up. Solo is a great tool. I wasn't about to put myself up there around a line like that 15 feet off the ground. I've used it to inspect my gutters and my chimney. Heck I used it to blow leaves off my driveway while also learning some low flying. I can handle it pretty well and safely. A 360 shot is so easy you don't even need the smart shot. I totally understand the risk of flying near lines which is why I was slow, low and deliberate in my movements to land and yes the box wasn't best idea which I quickly found out and why I went to the alternate.

My family wanted to see it because some of them were interested in buying one. Now they aren't so sure. And no pushing it onto the box would have been a bad idea. the box was elevated and if solo slipped off the side it could travel some distance before hitting the ground or some body and the thought of that happening made me choose the alternate site. I'll disable that feature if I can and never have another problem with it, I really don't think its necessary and I don't like it taking control. If it would have done what I told it to do all would be fine. That's all there is to say about it. Go ahead and point fingers all you want and call me ignorant and view it all in your 20/20 hind sight and say I would have done this and done that and blah blah blah. The feature makes no sense to me and the fact that everybody has mapped a button to override means its useless. I just want them to change it.

So I burned about 5 percent battery from 15% to 10% very quickly on a slow forward motion and a descent to land. I'm not even sure of the time frame but it wasn't much time at all. How is it going to make it back by going full throttle straight up to 75 feet Ignoring all stick movements from the user then going maybe 20 feet to where I took off from and then descending 75 feet on 10 percent battery if it discharges faster as it depletes as some are implying? Makes no sense all that does is burn it up faster. How is this useful? They are already going to alter this feature in the next update so I hear so they realize it's not that great and needs tweaked. I say only engage in controller failure or have the override option built in before it engages. That's my idea and I stand by it.

no one has given an answer if the fly button disengages auto RTH if on 10% battery. The only thing I've really heard was that I should have came here found out that everyone and their cousin sets the A button to fly manual to disengage any smart feature of the Solo in case it takes control from you. I didn't read that in the manual. I can see someone panic and engage manual and quickly find out they can't handle it and hurt somebody. Is that really the BEST solution?

 

[Jubalr]

I still love my solo. I only want it to get better. I just checked the manual and here is what it says about disengaging return home and no one here mentioned this. press the fly button. Don't think any of you read the manual guys mentioned this. Guess even the elite haven't read or memorized the entire thing. Or does this not work when at 10% battery. Anyone tried this?

4.9.2 Regain Manual Control Keep the controller easily accessible at all times during flight, including during Smart Shots, and be prepared to regain manual control at any time. To return to standard flight during Smart Shots, Return Home, or Land, press the Fly button.

The reason that I and many other long time fliers don't recommend the 'Fly' or 'Pause' buttons is that they both rely on GPS. The only way to be sure that it is your inputs that are commanding 100% is to put it in manual. Manufacturers are not quick to recommend this is strictly because it requires more skill, and if you haven't spent enough time in manual it could get you in trouble.

 

[Marich]

This thread has made for some interesting reading!
For whatever it's worth, any time I fly anywhere near people, cars or the like I'm in manual. No fumbling to gain full control if you already have it.
That being said, this occurs to me: according to the OP, since the first attempts to achieve GPS lock failed, the takeoff box was brought in - and lock was obtained. From there the flight proceeded.
So, that's "Home". Therefore, I expect that there was a clear shot straight up for takeoff and climb to altitude? One thing's for sure, Solo would expect it. Being the takeoff point, there would obviously be no wires, branches, etc.. to hinder a straight up-and-down approach.
You state you were a couple of feet above ground, i.e. the box, when RTH kicked in. Any reason there were obstructions that weren't there before?
Or, alternatively, did you originally take off with obstructions but dodged them manually on the way up?
I may have misread something somewhere, but I dunno. In any event, according to your own description of events, Solo behaved exactly as intended - apparently it was trying to gain altitude and come straight back down - because that's where it took off.
Or am I mixed up somewhere?

 

[Pogo]

Fenderbender, this has been a good thread. Many like I have learned a lot from this discussion. We know that the 3DR manual is not complete by any stretch of the imagination. Like us, 3DR too, is learning and adjusting as all of us compare notes and provide input and anecdotes (as we do on this forum). I think they have been fairly responsive in terms of making changes to their software/firmware updates. They have not solved all of the issues having to do with the operator/drone interface but I am comfortable that they are continually improving the experience as time goes on.

 

[Pogo]

This thread has made for some interesting reading!
For whatever it's worth, any time I fly anywhere near people, cars or the like I'm in manual. No fumbling to gain full control if you already have it.
That being said, this occurs to me: according to the OP, since the first attempts to achieve GPS lock failed, the takeoff box was brought in - and lock was obtained. From there the flight proceeded.
So, that's "Home". Therefore, I expect that there was a clear shot straight up for takeoff and climb to altitude? One thing's for sure, Solo would expect it. Being the takeoff point, there would obviously be no wires, branches, etc.. to hinder a straight up-and-down approach.
You state you were a couple of feet above ground, i.e. the box, when RTH kicked in. Any reason there were obstructions that weren't there before?
Or, alternatively, did you originally take off with obstructions but dodged them manually on the way up?
I may have misread something somewhere, but I dunno. In any event, according to your own description of events, Solo behaved exactly as intended - apparently it was trying to gain altitude and come straight back down - because that's where it took off.
Or am I mixed up somewhere?

Marich, If I read his original post correctly he was doing a manual landing in a NEW location when RTH kicked in , but at the exact moment he happened to be under power wires. But you are correct that the Solo did perform as intended.

 

[Marich]

Yep, he said he was trying to land on the box, then re-routed because of turbulence. Still...

 

[Pogo]

Yes but he had to move to a second landing spot He said I try to land back on the box but the prop wash was too much and the solo was not very steady and I didn't want it to fall off the box so I flew it up and out of the way while I had everyone clear a spot on the driveway for a safe landing.

Yep, he said he was trying to land on the box, then re-routed because of turbulence. Still...

Yes but he had to move to a second landing spot He said "I try to land back on the box but the prop wash was too much and the solo was not very steady and I didn't want it to fall off the box so I flew it up and out of the way while I had everyone clear a spot on the driveway for a safe landing".

 

[Fenderbender]

Does 3DR have a presence here in this forum? I just don't understand why so many are against adding or altering a feature that may even save them if they are off their game one day something happens and they forced into a situation like mine. I really see great potential in Solo. I told myself a few years ago I would never buy a phantom. They just seemed like toys compared to what we were working with at the time. This is my only problem with the Solo. I'm not even really upset I had to upgrade antennas to get the range they said I'd get stock. I bought them with no problem. I'm not trying to get 3DR to accommodate my every wish. But this one thing could help avoid crashes for both new and experienced pilots. Thought people would be all onboard. I was upset when I wrote the first post. 3DR finally said they'd cover 15% of parts but it will take a month or two to get the bird back. I'm not even asking for a new gimbal. The place i bought this from shipped me 2 gimbals for some reason so i have a spare. I already mended the body crack and did a test hover. Seemed ok. I took it to 200 feet and stretched it's legs a bit going 20 mph and making it work to see if the repair would hold up. All seems good and no problems. Pretty amazing really for such a hard hit. I just asked if they could send the body to me at a 15% discount and I'll replace it myself. Now they aren't even replying back. I don't want to wait months for the turn around. I'll probably just get a replacement body from B&H or some place. But I bet if there is a flyaway they will reference my old claim and say that since they didn't put the body on themselves that they can't cover a fly away. Even if it's months from now with perfect flights in between. Hopefully I never find out. I might even test the fly button disengage RTH at 10% with fly manual at the ready. This time I will take off from my driveway where I always do without anybody around just like usual. Now that I know that it's an option I'd rather test it than just hope really hard that it works.

 

[Acroduster]

I've done it myself and am confident that it will work for you. A version of some of your suggestions would be welcome to their programming. If I were you, I'd send them an email carefully outlining your suggestions, explaining how and why they work with examples.

 

[Killboy]

I'm not sure what exactly it is you want them to change, but you have to remember that just because you think it's a good feature, doesn't mean that everyone agrees with you on that. Many of us prefer that it does what it does the way it does, and we did the research and know what to do in case we're in a situation like you put yourself in.

If it did not do things the way it does now, that would present other problems that some (most?) of us agree would be more serious and more frequent. (Like making a bee line for Home when the battery gets too low instead of rising first, then landing) You have to understand that they have several options to choose from when programming any "Smart" drone to react to low battery, loss of GPS, loss of Tx signal, etc., but they are just trying to pick the option that would cause the least issues. There is no perfect solution, but it is what they feel is the best given the options.

That said, in their next update they are adding the ability for the Solo to recognize when it is close to Home, and IF it is within this "Cone" over home, it will forego the rising first part, and come straight down into Home.