Altitude of Drone to Aircraft

[Bigcovert]

We all hear complaints from Drones flying to high in the airspace over 400 ft. Which gives those that aside and follow the ROE (Rules of Engagement) so here is a little rant on my part I was flying my Solo at the beach at Opal Beach between navarre and Pensacola Florida. I just landed my Drone after taking some video. I heard an aircraft in my vacinity and saw a private aircraft flying below 500 ft. FAA regulation is: An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure...... As I was packing up I had a cop came up and asked me how high am I allowed to fly my drone and what are the rules if I was flying my drone when the aircraft approached. I stated according to the FAA we have a max altitude of 400 ft. The reason for this is keep a 100ft clearance between civilian aircraft and drone pilots. Clearly that aircraft was flying VFR and was flying below the required AGL. The question was who has the right of way. I stated because I do not have to file a flight plan. I would have give the right of way to the Aircraft. What are you guys thoughtsoon on this. I'm sure I am not the only person that has experienced airspace intrusion. You thoughts
Before the question gets asked.
Yes, I was 15 miles from nearest airport.

 

[Chuck]

Personally, I would give the right of way to ANY aircraft at ANY time. I wouldn't want to take a chance of an incident over a hundred feet or so of airspace. I am sure most pilots of private planes adhere to the FAA rules which applies to them, but there are those who sometimes ignore them. I was flying at a location I fly at quite often, and a private plane kept making passes to just see what I was doing. As he kept getting lower on his passes, I just packed it up and left. I don't want to be the reason a problem occurs either because of airspace or from a lookie loo just checking me out.

 

[Jubalr]

It's unfortunate, but those situations will happen. You didn't mention if the plane was over water. And of course he could still have been violating the airspace regs. But as a pilot myself, I would certainly always yield to any manned aircraft since they have a lot more to lose than I do standing on the ground.

 

[Chuck]

He was over land, and within the city limits, so he was definitely too low for the area he was flying in. He was able to see me packing things up, and wagged his wings as he left the area. I agree with you that a private aircraft has more to lose than us. To my knowledge there hasn't been a major incident with a collision of a drone and civilian aircraft, and none of us wants to be in the news as the first.

 

[pyrate]

But there was a human on board, regardless of how right or wrong he was
your unmanned craft will always need to yield

 

[Bigcovert]

I totally agree. In my case it's left to be defined open water. If you can see land 300 ft to you right wing I wold not consider open water. Anyway packing up was what I did. The issue is that Drones have now been restricted to its little box and when those that penetrate that box need to be reported. You see it goes to principle. Jus a rant.

 

[Burkeam]

I totally agree. In my case it's left to be defined open water. If you can see land 300 ft to you right wing I wold not consider open water. Anyway packing up was what I did. The issue is that Drones have now been restricted to its little box and when those that penetrate that box need to be reported. You see it goes to principle. Jus a rant.

Rant away. Just yield to all aircrafts that have soles on board or their rant will be more justified. I don't think of them as being restricted but more of being put in their place.

 

[mgrennan]

Rants are great. I love talking (typing) through these things.

At the TORKS (okc) we are within five miles of two airports and two Heli pads. We are "Flown" over all the time. We stay under 400 and mostly 200 feet 99% of the time. Still, we have a hand shake rule "No now files by themselves". This is mostly for "prop strike" safety. We we also keep our heads swivel and call out low approaches. Mostly from TV heli-s. Sometimes as low as 200 feet. We have never had an issue.

That's real life. How should it be?

I believe if the FAA is going get "serous" with the RC groups then they should just get on with it. Club fields should be shown on every flight chart / map. Aircraft should be required to keep a half mile from our fields and stay over 500 feet. We should have the right to report them as wall as them us.

Drown flying is not a crime. We have some rights for airspace too.

 

[Burkeam]

We can report aircraft if within 500' of any person, place, or thing. Just try to read the N#. This has always been the rule. I used to always fly low when checking something out( rural area of course). Not now a days. I would recommend all aircraft pilots avoid below 500' as the in-flight risk go up. It is now drone world. Hopefully the drone airspace is emphasised during pilot bi-annual flight review. In the end we should avoid the national headlines and stay away from manned aircraft

 

[mgrennan]

@

We can report aircraft if within 500' of any person, place, or thing. Just try to read the N#. This has always been the rule. I used to always fly low when checking something out( rural area of course). Not now a days. I would recommend all aircraft pilots avoid below 500' as the in-flight risk go up. It is now drone world. Hopefully the drone airspace is emphasised during pilot bi-annual flight review. In the end we should avoid the national headlines and stay away from manned aircraft

Absolutly! I'll give my RC stuff to make anyone safer. But time has shown we can do RC safely. I'd just like a little more respect coming this way. Models where in the air before maned aircraft.

 

[Gary Burch]

I had a border patrol helicoper check me out at the ranch, twice in one day. He flew directly over two times. I was only flying about 100ft. Up. Both times I came down over trees to avoid his turbulance. I was going to come up behind him to get a picture. I decided not to play with the U.S. government. Glad I stayed my distance.

 

[Bigcovert]

You see this is what I am talking about. This should not be an issue for us in the RC world. 95% of those follow the rules and stay within limitations governed by airspace rules. What is truly the issue is that those in manned aircraft are causing these near misses not following general aviation guidlines. I would have to agree with Mgrennen on airspace rights. Pilots need to be educated just as we have to. It's a new erra in aviation with consumer drones. I believe it will take time and a lot more restriction before it gets better.

 

[mgrennan]

I had a border patrol helicoper check me out at the ranch, twice in one day. He flew directly over two times. I was only flying about 100ft. Up. Both times I came down over trees to avoid his turbulance. I was going to come up behind him to get a picture. I decided not to play with the U.S. government. Glad I stayed my distance.

How fare where you from the border? Might he be thinking your avoidance was because you had something to hide. Maybe he thought you where a drug runner. Please be careful. Once the Police State starts thinking in a direction they never believe they are wrong.

 

[Gary Burch]

We are 90 miles from the border. In an area where illegals are being transported.

 

[User Name]

While I'm sure there are people who fly GA aircraft below the minimums, and I'm not saying it didn't happen in your case, it can be very difficult to judge from the ground. I was flying a little 250 quad at a local park, doing waypoint flights at around 250 feet, and a helicopter came flying above the field at, what at the time, I thought was surly well below 500 feet.

I had a small camera on the quad that records to a micro SD card, and when I got home, I looked to see if it caught the heli. It did, and it was WAY above my quad, not even remotely close. So if I was at 250 feet, it was definitely over 500, despite it looking from the ground to be much closer.

I suspect our perception of height is skewed by the size of our craft. We come to judge what a given height is, roughly, by the perceived size of our multirotors. Even the smallest general aviation planes are 30 to 40 times the size, so they appear much larger even at a greater distance. And having spent a lot of time flying in GA airplanes, 500 feet isn't so high that you can't make out what people are doing on the ground. If the pilot was at 500 feet and you were flying at 250, your quad would be appear the same size to both of you, so it's not impossible that he saw it and simply wagged his wings as a friendly hello to a fellow pilot.

Again, I'm not saying the person wasn't below 500 feet in your case, just saying from experience, it can be hard to judge from the ground.

 

[EyeWingsuit]

We all hear complaints from Drones flying to high in the airspace over 400 ft. Which gives those that aside and follow the ROE (Rules of Engagement) so here is a little rant on my part I was flying my Solo at the beach at Opal Beach between navarre and Pensacola Florida. I just landed my Drone after taking some video. I heard an aircraft in my vacinity and saw a private aircraft flying below 500 ft. FAA regulation is: An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure...... As I was packing up I had a cop came up and asked me how high am I allowed to fly my drone and what are the rules if I was flying my drone when the aircraft approached. I stated according to the FAA we have a max altitude of 400 ft. The reason for this is keep a 100ft clearance between civilian aircraft and drone pilots. Clearly that aircraft was flying VFR and was flying below the required AGL. The question was who has the right of way. I stated because I do not have to file a flight plan. I would have give the right of way to the Aircraft. What are you guys thoughtsoon on this. I'm sure I am not the only person that has experienced airspace intrusion. You thoughts
Before the question gets asked.
Yes, I was 15 miles from nearest airport.

My nickel as a pilot and aerial photographer; A pedestrian is standing in the middle of the freeway. He's clearly in the wrong, he doesn't belong there. Is it OK to continue straight on your path since you're in the right? Is it acceptable to merely sideswipe him instead? After all, you're perfectly within your legal confines of the dotted line and the pedestrian is breaking the law. for whatever reason.

If your drone (considered a toy by all rights) gets in the way of an aircraft and goes through a plex windshield (as one example) or sucked into the induction port of say, a Caravan mail hauler who is low for whatever reason, it's not just the pilot that may die, the aircraft may crash into a populated area.

Food for thought.

 

[EyeWingsuit]

@


Absolutly! I'll give my RC stuff to make anyone safer. But time has shown we can do RC safely. I'd just like a little more respect coming this way. Models where in the air before maned aircraft.

Forgive my bluntness, but who gives a sh** which was in the air "first?" One is for fun/games, and for a single-digit percentage of the community, a commercial enterprise. The other carries people or things from place to place as almost exclusively a commercial enterprise. One is significantly more deadly than the other.
Re-read what you said and tell me you're serious after doing so.
Pilots have to worry about birds. Birds aren't smart/stupid enough to chase or intentionally get in front of an aircraft. Only drone operators are dumb enough to do so.
Birds aren't arrogant enough to think they own any part of the airspace. When the US Airspace system was determined back in the 40's the concept of anything but aircraft overhead never came into thought. It took 15 years to develop the airspace system we now have, and drones haven't been plentiful for 15 months. It'll take a while to get the airspace re-sorted.
Prior to the Phantom, drone/uav/RC people were predominantly very dedicated hobbyist geeks that understood the fragility of the legal aspects of flying a device in classified airspace. The people I know were conservative, careful, and conscious. Never once did I hear the BS of "we were here first" or "Pilots need to be trained."
Pilots of a real airplane have enough to worry about when as low as 500.' It's dangerous enough to be that low. There are a lot of instruments to pay attention too, let alone other traffic in some areas/on approach, without having to worry about the microdot that can barely be seen amongst ground clutter, that may kill him/her vs some fu**wad that at worst, loses a $2000.00 piece of "gear."

It is *our* responsibility to learn the rules of the sky, NOT the pilot's, who has at least one hundred of hours of training, passed standardized tests, been check-rided, and given a license, to "learn about us." That pilot has more hours in the training than the vast majority of drone operators have in actual airtime.

 

[User Name]

Forgive my bluntness, but who gives a sh** which was in the air "first?"

Not saying it's the case here, but in general, it's troubling to see the degree to which people simply don't give a damn about anyone but themselves. And this spans generations, social and economic classes. From the CEO making 100's of millions a year yet laying workers off to save the company a dime to the kid flying his quadcopter into the flight path of aircraft carrying hundreds of people.

You can object to it here, but the truth is it's a deep systemic issue throughout our society.

 

[Skyhawg]

As a military and FAA air traffic controller for 31 years I have a bit of experience with "manned aircraft" operating in the National Airspace System. Do not get real comfortable thinking 100 feet separation between our toy drones and an aircraft is a safe operation. There are factors that pilots deal with that the majority of drone operators have no clue about. EyeWingsuit pretty much summed up the workload of a pilot operating at low altitudes. I have seen many instances of professional pilots "busting" ATC assigned altitude restrictions in extremely busy IFR conditions. So I have zero confidence that some Cessna driver giving aunt Edna a sightseeing tour of the beach will stay at or above 500 feet cause the FAR's say so. My opinion, for what it's worth, if a low flying aircraft is approaching, my drone is coming in for a landing. It very well could be an aircraft in distress looking for safe area to land, might be a Medevac helicopter descending for a landing zone that you don't know about. May be a law enforcement aircraft on a high priority mission running low and fast. It happens! I attended a pilot safety seminar a few months ago at the airport I work at. The concern over drones is huge with the FAA, ALPA, AOPA, and the military. The FAA tends to make knee jerk reactions when aviation safety is compromised. That being said...be careful, be safe, and fly smart. You really don't want to experience an FAA enforcement action when they want to make an example out of you!!!

 

[Skyhawg]

@


Absolutly! I'll give my RC stuff to make anyone safer. But time has shown we can do RC safely. I'd just like a little more respect coming this way. Models where in the air before maned aircraft.