new gopro question

[indonesianpilot]

You do know we use GoPro in many, many 5K productions, yes? Ironman 3, Transformers 2/3, Hyena Road, Kingsmen, etc all have had GoPro footage in them. It's a PITA to match/correct to a RED or Arri, but that's really not the point. Sometimes a crash cam is called for, and sometimes a camera is desired in places where it's not practical to mount a full-bodied camera.
8K at the right compression will be better indeed, and allow for a very wide, very viable post-process ability. 8K isn't important just yet, but it is the next thing.
Sony has an 8K camera ready to roll quite soon.

Here is the film version:

Im talking about most gopro user here. Sure there is a few who use it to make a professional cinematic movie. 1:1000 or even 1:10000 maybe. And if that really a market that they aim, well, i see why they almost broke now. Like i said, if they want to improve, its better to improve battery life, digital stabilizer, or better optical stabilizer, bigger sensor, pixel size, better mic. If they want to give it 8K no problem, its even better, but i think its not essential, and dont make them forget to upgrade/give what really essential to an action cam. Its "action cam" lets keep it at "action". Maybe there is a few people out there that using a lighter to cook. But still, you cant compare a lighter to a stove

 

[EyeWingsuit]

Im talking about most gopro user here. Sure there is a few who use it to make a professional cinematic movie. 1:1000 or even 1:10000 maybe. And if that really a market that they aim, well, i see why they almost broke now. Like i said, if they want to improve, its better to improve battery life, digital stabilizer, or better optical stabilizer, bigger sensor, pixel size, better mic. If they want to give it 8K no problem, its even better, but i think its not essential, and dont make them forget to upgrade/give what really essential to an action cam. Its "action cam" lets keep it at "action". Maybe there is a few people out there that using a lighter to cook. But still, you cant compare a lighter to a stove

"Most GoPro users" are all about the best image of themselves possible. A year ago everyone said 4K was a waste. Now, they're saying something entirely different. 8K will be the same soon enough.
"Action Cam" merely means small, waterproof/resistant, shock-resistant, etc. "ActionCam has no relationship to quality.
GoPro is FAR from "almost broke." I nearly spit coffee all over my monitor just reading that. They missed forecast. That's all. They made a stumble, but they'll recover very, very nicely.

I am the clown that tests these products for motion picture. I also do product evaluation for many of the manufacturers of POV cameras, including GoPro. The manufacturers are all pretty smart, and they all have an eye for the future. Ambarella and Samsung are running neck and neck to build the best 100Mbps image processor out there with 8K resolution. Everyone will soon enough, have 8K in a small package using the HEVC codec, and some will sample 4:2:2. You're invited to attend one of my lectures on Codecs and POV cameras at NAB if you're on this side of the pond this April.

It has *nothing* to do with targeting cinema or not. It's about understanding that the "heroes" of the world want the latest, greatest, best footage of themselves with their dog, kite, skateboard, surfboard, whatever sport or fun they participate in, and they're willing to pay for it. It's about recording a memory, as pristinely as possible.

Most of the world is now a disposable economy; consumers buy new products every two years. GoPro missed a consumer buy-cycle. It's not the end of the world for them, not by _any_ stretch. Professionals will continue to buy crates of cameras and destroy them per-project (Iron Man 3 destroyed more than 100 GoPros). Consumers are barely half of GoPro's success. They are used in research, medicine, security, education, sports, zoos, documentary, narrative, dashcams, law enforcement, firefighting, hunting, forestry, and so many other industrial and enterprise uses... a short quarter isn't remotely close to "hurtful." Heck, they have over 300M cash on hand at the end of the year. Not too bad, given their market.

My one fear is that Apple will absorb/acquire them.

 

[indonesianpilot]

"Most GoPro users" are all about the best image of themselves possible. A year ago everyone said 4K was a waste. Now, they're saying something entirely different. 8K will be the same soon enough.
"Action Cam" merely means small, waterproof/resistant, shock-resistant, etc. "ActionCam has no relationship to quality.

I don't know man, maybe we must agree to disagree on this one. because even now, i still think that 4K is a waste(for an action cam) considering its very low FPS. i still using 1080p everyday and it sure look good, slow-motion is smooth too. and I consider myself as a "most gopro user" here, not professional, just a guy using gopro to film his skate flip, bicycle trick, and bike trip. and since 3dr solo, aerial too.
And yes action cam has no relationship to quality, i can't agree more. I'm never saying that a video quality of an action cam must low or something like that. i say, if they want to improve, its better to improve battery life, digital stabiliser, or better optical stabiliser, bigger sensor, pixel size, better mic. IF they improve that, the video quality will improve too. 4K is good enough, improve it to make it even better.
8K? it will look good on paper, look good in marketing. In real life? if they still keep their same 30 fps, same no stabiliser, same pixel size, same sensor size, then i say its a gimmick.
Do you think a 50mp camera is better than a 24mp camera? YES, on paper. In real life? a 24mp camera w/ stabiliser, bigger pixel size, bigger sensor, will have a better pict quality compared to shaky, full of noise 50mp camera. in studio where the photo is taken with full equipment (tripod, lighting), that 50mp camera will show. but on daily photo hunting, i'll choose that 24mp everyday of the year. (i have sony A7s that only 12mp, much better than a 23mp sony xperia. Bigger is not always better)

GoPro is FAR from "almost broke." I nearly spit coffee all over my monitor just reading that. They missed forecast. That's all. They made a stumble, but they'll recover very, very nicely.

Ok maybe I'm wrong using the word "broke", but they sure have an issue with their stock, and will they recover or not, only time can tell

It has *nothing* to do with targeting cinema or not. It's about understanding that the "heroes" of the world want the latest, greatest, best footage of themselves with their dog, kite, skateboard, surfboard, whatever sport or fun they participate in, and they're willing to pay for it. It's about recording a memory, as pristinely as possible.

And yes i agree with this too, the world want the latest, greatest, best footage of themselves with their dog, kite, skateboard, surfboard, whatever sport or fun they participate in, and they're willing to pay for it. And i say gopro need to stop tricked them to buy an very high resolution camera (8K) that they don't actually need. I don't care if someone out there using gopro to shoot a cinematic movie, i speak here as a user that use it everyday to record the latest, greatest, best footage of myself. i want the best, the greatest, but NOT the biggest. 8K sure need a hi-end computer to post processing, and there is no intention of me to play it on a cinema or a billboard size screen. so i'll stay to my opinion that gopro w/ improve battery life, digital stabilizer, or optical stabilizer, bigger sensor, pixel size, better mic, is better than gopro w/ 8K. At least for me

and talking about the future, i don't know about the others but i personally will choose a 120fps 4K over 30fps 8K in an action cam.

 

[PdxSteve]

At least for me and talking about the future, i don't know about the others but i personally will choose a 120fps 4K over 30fps 8K in an action cam.

And it's the higher resolutions that also helps bring about faster fps for lower resolutions. If the sensor is capturing at 8k (that's a lot of bits), that means it's also capable of recording the same frequency of bits at a lower resolution, which equates to faster fps. The Hero 5 is supposed to do 8k, yes, but it's also supposed to do 4k/60fps.

 

[SurfnSkate81]

Here is my Blackmagic MicroCinema, with the Oly 12 mm on it. It's quite small, about double the size of the GoPro. The lens is where the size/weight comes into play. No gimbal, no stabilization makes it rough for Solo ATM. I've flown this belly-mounted, zip-tied and duct-taped into place. Solo manages the weight ok, but CG mount isn't at all acceptable.

What do you think about the image quality on the BMMC? What have you been using it for? Have you used any other BM cameras? Being an Aussie I'm all about supporting Australian companies. I've been thinking about getting myself one in the hope that we soon may have a gimbal for it.

 

[SurfnSkate81]

8K GoPro would certainly be an improvement on every GoPro before it but like I mentioned earlier we are going to need some serious horsepower to work with it in post, the average GoPro user isn't going to have that kind of computing power for a while anyway.

We definitely are heading down the 8K road, that's what electronics companies do, create new machines better than what we have now. If they didn't how else would they get us to spend more money on the latest greatest thing.

I work in consumer electronics and the vast majority of households haven't even moved to 4K displays yet. Why would they? We are only just starting to see 4K content for viewing consumption. I would like to see 4K and HDR widely available before we even start to market 8K to consumers, but saying that it will come whether we like it or not.

For those who are interested Japanese broadcaster NHK have been testing 8K OTA broadcasting. They are aiming for the Tokyo 2020 olympic games to be delivered in 8K.

 

[mcneely19]

Well I'm off to buy go pro stock while it's in the tank....

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

 

[EyeWingsuit]

What do you think about the image quality on the BMMC? What have you been using it for? Have you used any other BM cameras? Being an Aussie I'm all about supporting Australian companies. I've been thinking about getting myself one in the hope that we soon may have a gimbal for it.

I've produced a couple of shorts, cut-ins, and and one commercial using this camera. I have quite a bit of experience with the BMD line of cameras; I'm teaching a class on BMD at NAB this year. I personally own an Ursa Mini, a Pocket Cinema, the MicroCinema both in 1080 and 4K models, and a 4K production camera. Note the 4K production camera wrist-mounted in this image from "Kingsmen."
@SurfnSkate81 , if you're in Melbourne or Sydney, I'm SURE there is a dealer there that could arrange a short-term loan of the BMD Micro. It's a very well-built camera. I'd recommend you try the HD vs the Micro, unless you have a Ninja or Odyssey with which to record the signal OTA with a Blade or Teradek wireless system.


My previous post does not suggest I'm an advocate for 8K right now, but to suggest it's a waste is to be an ostrich.
If getting hung up on frames per second is the focus, then sure...we're heading down that road too. Not for purposes of slow motion, but rather greater motion capture that looks terrific on high refresh-rate screens. FWIW, two things that scream "Amateur" are overly done slow motion and long crossfade transisitons in edits.
@indonesianpilot , you suggest that 4K currently has "very low framerates." What on earth are you talking about? "Very low" to anyone who has been in the industry for longer than 24 months means 12fps, 15fps. 24, 25, 30, 48fps have been standards for longer than you've been alive. 60fps will be the new standard, and most everything is now upgraded to edit it. But it still cannot be broadcast, nor can it be sent efficiently over pipes right now without a loss in resolution. So which is it? Great slow mo with a weak picture? Or great picture at framerates that echo the eye's ability to resolve?

<<i personally will choose a 120fps 4K over 30fps 8K in an action cam.>>
In the industry, we call this "Measurebating." Jerking off over numbers without experience or knowledge in what the numbers actually mean, or cost the user.

Bear in mind that certain codecs do better with high resolutions than others, and don't necessarily translate to lower resolutions very well. ProRes simply blows at 4K, and blows worse at 8K. HEVC is terrific with 4 and 8K but blows at 1080.
Glass, resolution, bitrate, DSP, and compression are the keys to a good image, and other than focal length, the size of the package merely gets smaller and smaller as more schemes for heat dissipation are discovered.
GoPro included.

 

[SurfnSkate81]

I've produced a couple of shorts, cut-ins, and and one commercial using this camera. I have quite a bit of experience with the BMD line of cameras; I'm teaching a class on BMD at NAB this year. I personally own an Ursa Mini, a Pocket Cinema, the MicroCinema both in 1080 and 4K models, and a 4K production camera. Note the 4K production camera wrist-mounted in this image from "Kingsmen."
@SurfnSkate81 , if you're in Melbourne or Sydney, I'm SURE there is a dealer there that could arrange a short-term loan of the BMD Micro. It's a very well-built camera. I'd recommend you try the HD vs the Micro, unless you have a Ninja or Odyssey with which to record the signal OTA with a Blade or Teradek wireless system.
View attachment 2387

My previous post does not suggest I'm an advocate for 8K right now, but to suggest it's a waste is to be an ostrich.
If getting hung up on frames per second is the focus, then sure...we're heading down that road too. Not for purposes of slow motion, but rather greater motion capture that looks terrific on high refresh-rate screens. FWIW, two things that scream "Amateur" are overly done slow motion and long crossfade transisitons in edits.
@indonesianpilot , you suggest that 4K currently has "very low framerates." What on earth are you talking about? "Very low" to anyone who has been in the industry for longer than 24 months means 12fps, 15fps. 24, 25, 30, 48fps have been standards for longer than you've been alive. 60fps will be the new standard, and most everything is now upgraded to edit it. But it still cannot be broadcast, nor can it be sent efficiently over pipes right now without a loss in resolution. So which is it? Great slow mo with a weak picture? Or great picture at framerates that echo the eye's ability to resolve?

<<i personally will choose a 120fps 4K over 30fps 8K in an action cam.>>
In the industry, we call this "Measurebating." Jerking off over numbers without experience or knowledge in what the numbers actually mean, or cost the user.

Bear in mind that certain codecs do better with high resolutions than others, and don't necessarily translate to lower resolutions very well. ProRes simply blows at 4K, and blows worse at 8K. HEVC is terrific with 4 and 8K but blows at 1080.
Glass, resolution, bitrate, DSP, and compression are the keys to a good image, and other than focal length, the size of the package merely gets smaller and smaller as more schemes for heat dissipation are discovered.
GoPro included.

Thanks mate for the info if I could pick your brain a little more -

Does the 4K Micro Cinema also have the PWM and S.Bus inputs? I'm assuming this will be required if it ever makes it to Solo?

I will ring around to see what dealers can get a loaner to do some testing. What lenses have you used for wide FOV?

Also what are you thoughts on HDR / Rec.2020?

 

[EyeWingsuit]

PTZ and S.bus (which includes the PWM) in the expansion port.
I'm using the Olympus 12mm 1.2 lens for my test flights and it works very nicely (a tad too wide, but I don't dare fly a longer lens with these legs). Even this Oly is a little long for straight-down facing. I've been meaning to create a stick-on horizontal mount, just haven't had time yet. I'd then stabilize using Mercalli V4 in post.

BT2020/Rec.2020 is a long-standing standard, but CEA/CES have just now announced the standard for HDR support. The HSR spec/support has always been there, just that it hadn't been ratified by the governing body. It usually takes a long, long time for ratification (since 2012 in this case). It'll be the new standard, somewhat invisible to most people. It's just part of "what's next." Most of the software companies will be adding these specifications/options into their NLE's by NAB, most likely, and if not, very soon after. Start digging into Resolve . There might be someting very cool in the next version for us.

 

[erikgraham]

ProRes simply blows at 4K, and blows worse at 8K.

Can you clear that up for me? I love ProRes at 4K as an edit codec.

(I should add for editing GoPro footage, not raw footage from a proper camera)

 

[EyeWingsuit]

Can you clear that up for me? I love ProRes at 4K as an edit codec.

(I should add for editing GoPro footage, not raw footage from a proper camera)

You're using ProRes as your 4K intermediary, and that's fine. You lose a bit going from ProTune to ProRes (but not so much that it looks terrible). Run a difference mask and you'll quickly see the losses in the detail and solid color blocks. ProRes is an older scheme, so it doesn't decode fast, and most importantly, cannot use the CPU for decoding.
It is so easy to do a transcode from ProRes to HEVC, but FCPX won't edit HEVC. One side of this image is ProRes 4:4:4, captured at-camera/source
The other side is HEVC 4:2:0, transcoded from the original.
Which is which? BTW, one is 1.2TB, the other is 266MB. Look closely at the wood, teapot, sky, chair.

 

[indonesianpilot]

My previous post does not suggest I'm an advocate for 8K right now, but to suggest it's a waste is to be an ostrich.
If getting hung up on frames per second is the focus, then sure...we're heading down that road too. Not for purposes of slow motion, but rather greater motion capture that looks terrific on high refresh-rate screens. FWIW, two things that scream "Amateur" are overly done slow motion and long crossfade transisitons in edits.
@indonesianpilot , you suggest that 4K currently has "very low framerates." What on earth are you talking about? "Very low" to anyone who has been in the industry for longer than 24 months means 12fps, 15fps. 24, 25, 30, 48fps have been standards for longer than you've been alive. 60fps will be the new standard, and most everything is now upgraded to edit it. But it still cannot be broadcast, nor can it be sent efficiently over pipes right now without a loss in resolution. So which is it? Great slow mo with a weak picture? Or great picture at framerates that echo the eye's ability to resolve?

<<i personally will choose a 120fps 4K over 30fps 8K in an action cam.>>
In the industry, we call this "Measurebating." Jerking off over numbers without experience or knowledge in what the numbers actually mean, or cost the user.

Bear in mind that certain codecs do better with high resolutions than others, and don't necessarily translate to lower resolutions very well. ProRes simply blows at 4K, and blows worse at 8K. HEVC is terrific with 4 and 8K but blows at 1080.
Glass, resolution, bitrate, DSP, and compression are the keys to a good image, and other than focal length, the size of the package merely gets smaller and smaller as more schemes for heat dissipation are discovered.
GoPro included.

Okay maybe we got off the wrong foot, let me make myself clear. All my opinion above, is for the sake of GoPro camera. I'm not talking about camcorder, broadcasting camera, or digital film camera. I'm talking about action camera.
And i do know even 25fps is good enough to make a cinematic quality movie. And sorry I'm not stating it earlier that what i mean 4K have a very low fps (30fps) its compared to what gopro offering in their 1080p version which is 240 fps. and yes it can't be broadcast without a loss in resolution, and neither can 8K.
But NO, frame per second is not my only focus, its just one point. My concern is also about stabilizer, battery life, splash proof, etc.
And don't get me wrong, i'm not against 8K here. My point is... i do choose a 4K action cam with a stabilizer(even sony action cam have this), better battery life, better mic over an 8K action cam but with none of that feature. IF they can make the next gopro have 8K, stabilizer, better battery life, better mic, splash proof without the case. Then, i will be very very glad. BUT if they can't, i will choose that 4K with all that feature.
And then again, I'm talking about action cam here. if we talk about a camera like aaton/arri. its a different story. i will choose a 8K version over that 4K + all that feature. And why? because i do expected the best resolution from my "professional" camera but i don't need stabilizer, bcs i will filming with a Rig or other kind of stabilizer, i don't need a very good battery life, because i can plug it to an outlet, i don't need a good mic in the camera, because i will using external mic anyways.
Well i don't do that with a GoPro. I'm not going to carry a Rig while I'm surfing with my Gopro, and there is no power outlet in the sea(never found one), and I'm not going to carry a mic w/ boom pole when I'm going to vac with my family.
Once again, I'm not against 8K, the one thing i don't like about 8K is i don't have enough horsepower to post processing it. But if GoPro can make a 8K w/ stabilizer, better battery life, splash proof, better mic action cam. it will be terrific(i will still going to use 1080/4K tho).
But IF not, why they don't just make a 4K w/ all that feature, compared to an 8K action cam but without all that feature

 

[EyeWingsuit]

Okay maybe we got off the wrong foot, let me make myself clear. All my opinion above, is for the sake of GoPro camera. I'm not talking about camcorder, broadcasting camera, or digital film camera. I'm talking about action camera.
And i do know even 25fps is good enough to make a cinematic quality movie. And sorry I'm not stating it earlier that what i mean 4K have a very low fps (30fps) its compared to what gopro offering in their 1080p version which is 240 fps. and yes it can't be broadcast without a loss in resolution, and neither can 8K.
But NO, frame per second is not my only focus, its just one point. My concern is also about stabilizer, battery life, splash proof, etc.
And don't get me wrong, i'm not against 8K here. My point is... i do choose a 4K action cam with a stabilizer(even sony action cam have this), better battery life, better mic over an 8K action cam but with none of that feature. IF they can make the next gopro have 8K, stabilizer, better battery life, better mic, splash proof without the case. Then, i will be very very glad. BUT if they can't, i will choose that 4K with all that feature.
And then again, I'm talking about action cam here. if we talk about a camera like aaton/arri. its a different story. i will choose a 8K version over that 4K + all that feature. And why? because i do expected the best resolution from my "professional" camera but i don't need stabilizer, bcs i will filming with a Rig or other kind of stabilizer, i don't need a very good battery life, because i can plug it to an outlet, i don't need a good mic in the camera, because i will using external mic anyways.
Well i don't do that with a GoPro. I'm not going to carry a Rig while I'm surfing with my Gopro, and there is no power outlet in the sea(never found one), and I'm not going to carry a mic w/ boom pole when I'm going to vac with my family.
Once again, I'm not against 8K, the one thing i don't like about 8K is i don't have enough horsepower to post processing it. But if GoPro can make a 8K w/ stabilizer, better battery life, splash proof, better mic action cam. it will be terrific(i will still going to use 1080/4K tho).
But IF not, why they don't just make a 4K w/ all that feature, compared to an 8K action cam but without all that feature

What kind of stabilization do you want? EIS or OIS? Why do you need a better mic on an "action cam?"
As far as your conversation about what you "don't like about 8K," how can you dislike something with which you have zero experience or access to?

Is this an "action cam?"

Is this?

What about this?

 

[indonesianpilot]

What kind of stabilization do you want? EIS or OIS? Why do you need a better mic on an "action cam?"
As far as your conversation about what you "don't like about 8K," how can you dislike something with which you have zero experience or access to?

Is this an "action cam?"

Is this?

What about this?

1. OIS if possible
2. I need a better mic because sometimes i carry a GoPro to a concert, or a friend's jam session, at least give it stereo mic
3. What i dislike about 8K is i don't enough resources to process it, bcs processing a 4K is already quite hard for my old macbook. I'm sure i don't have to experience it first to know that 8K will be heavier than 4K
4. Yes that quite look like an action cam. A digital film camera maybe, but with its size it sure can be use as an action cam

 

[EyeWingsuit]

3. What i dislike about 8K is i don't enough resources to process it, bcs processing a 4K is already quite hard for my old macbook. I'm sure i don't have to experience it first to know that 8K will be heavier than 4K
4. Yes that quite look like an action cam. A digital film camera maybe, but with its size it sure can be use as an action cam

8K, due to the spec and compression schema, is easier to process (generally speaking) than current 4K codecs. I am running 8K, albeit slowly, on a 1.82Ghz Macbook running Bootcamp. If Apple would pull their heads out of their asses and allow users to access the CPU decoding that is *already* on their Intel CPU's, they be a lot more capable.

These are indeed action cams, with no mic input, no stabilization, no water proofing, so clearly not what you're looking for. Perhaps you might consider widening your perspective.
You asked why the manufacturers aren't making them to what YOU want them to be (and no camera has ever been exactly what *I* want it to be either)?

Because the market forecasts take the bigger picture into account. Which brings us right back to GoPro. Their market forecast for the Session was inaccurate and as a result, Wall Street lost a bit of confidence in them as a company. But they're still far, far away from being out of business.

 

[erikgraham]

You're using ProRes as your 4K intermediary, and that's fine. You lose a bit going from ProTune to ProRes (but not so much that it looks terrible). Run a difference mask and you'll quickly see the losses in the detail and solid color blocks. ProRes is an older scheme, so it doesn't decode fast, and most importantly, cannot use the CPU for decoding.
It is so easy to do a transcode from ProRes to HEVC, but FCPX won't edit HEVC. One side of this image is ProRes 4:4:4, captured at-camera/source
The other side is HEVC 4:2:0, transcoded from the original.
Which is which? BTW, one is 1.2TB, the other is 266MB. Look closely at the wood, teapot, sky, chair.
View attachment 2388

Thank you. Fascinating.

 

[indonesianpilot]

These are indeed action cams, with no mic input, no stabilization, no water proofing, so clearly not what you're looking for. Perhaps you might consider widening your perspective.
You asked why the manufacturers aren't making them to what YOU want them to be (and no camera has ever been exactly what *I* want it to be either)?

Yeah, clearly thats not the actioncam that im looking for, thats why i dont bought them.
And about im asking why the manufacturers aren't making them to what i want them to be, well im just saying my opinion, like everyone else would in the forum, thats what forum are for right? Its like saying, why 3dr dont make solo with bigger battery, why 3dr dont have longer range, etc.
By saying them, didnt mean i say that current gopro is trash or something. But i hope it can be what i want them to be. Hope is something free in this kind of coporate world, dont you think?
All i say is gopro with 4K + all that feature is better than 8K gopro - all that feature for ME. Im not saying that everyone else must think the same.
Im not saying that you are wrong and im right. Or im wrong and youre right. But i think ones can have a diffrent opinion than the others. And nothing wrong about it

 

[Mauiwind]

I am the clown that tests these products for motion picture.

GoPro, Inc. (GPRO) Stock Chart

 

[SurfnSkate81]

You're using ProRes as your 4K intermediary, and that's fine. You lose a bit going from ProTune to ProRes (but not so much that it looks terrible). Run a difference mask and you'll quickly see the losses in the detail and solid color blocks. ProRes is an older scheme, so it doesn't decode fast, and most importantly, cannot use the CPU for decoding.
It is so easy to do a transcode from ProRes to HEVC, but FCPX won't edit HEVC. One side of this image is ProRes 4:4:4, captured at-camera/source
The other side is HEVC 4:2:0, transcoded from the original.
Which is which? BTW, one is 1.2TB, the other is 266MB. Look closely at the wood, teapot, sky, chair.
View attachment 2388

What bit of wood and what chair? Lol

The split screen looks pretty much the same to me, maybe I should look at it on a screen bigger than my iPhone.