Cant get rid of vibrations, maybe its not your cable

[Marich]

I had the same issues, the question is WHY AREN'T THEY BALANCED BEFORE QC CHECKS?

I returned my Solo due to QC and general quality issues. The controller feels cheap, the device holder is cheap, the joysticks are cheap. Just bad choice of quality materials used. Maybe Solo 2 will be better.

Oh boy.

 

[Marich]

Give my obviously overtaxed brain a break here and do me a favor, OK?
Why are you posting here?
Once again someone arrives and immediately lays a BS minefield in their first series of posts. Every single one you've made has been 3DR negative.
Newsflash: I understand that it's pretty subtle and a tad hard to grasp, but the gist is this:
We are Solo enthusiasts. We work to improve its qualities and overcome any shortcomings, whether real or perceived.
We do not give a rat's rear what your opinion is. We are attempting to solve issues common amongst us rather than exacerbating often non-existent ones, we migrate towards a generally positive world view, and frankly don't care if a DJI Phantom, operated by a wealthy treasure hunter, simultaneously found Jimmy Hoffa's long-lost corpse engaging Elvis Presley's wraith in fervent conversation, thereby enduring a lifelong supply of income from Netflix subscriptions from the canceled TV show and subsequent feature film.
Man alive, Shrek. I know he's not a troll, but... a seems close enough for guvmint work.

 

[Maddog]

I had the same issues, the question is WHY AREN'T THEY BALANCED BEFORE QC CHECKS?

I returned my Solo due to QC and general quality issues. The controller feels cheap, the device holder is cheap, the joysticks are cheap. Just bad choice of quality materials used. Maybe Solo 2 will be better.

So, what are you flying now?

 

[erikgraham]

this was just to see if I could get Mission Planner and A app working. Won't use it for the final balance

In that case it certainly seemed to work well! It's amazing what these smart phones can do. By the way, I didn't realize you made the video. I assumed it was one you came across and posted. You should make some more as you refine the procedure. There are plenty of videos on balancing motors, but anything Solo specific would be great for this site.

 

[Marich]

I didn't mean to stir any thing except express my opinions. I'll definitely get another Solo when it's more mature. I'm a total believer in 3DR, especially with Pixhawk and APM. I'm really looking forward to improvements.

Ahem.
Well... since Solo isn't going to be drastically modified anytime soon, like your beloved Phantoms with their pre-determined expiration dates... sadly, no Solo 2, 5, 22 are planned...
Why not simply learn how to fly and use it properly in the first place instead of laying out, in full public view, examples of your incompetence?
I mean, seriously dude.

 

[Earldgrayjr]

Give my obviously overtaxed brain a break here and do me a favor, OK?
Why are you posting here?
Once again someone arrives and immediately lays a BS minefield in their first series of posts. Every single one you've made has been 3DR negative.
Newsflash: I understand that it's pretty subtle and a tad hard to grasp, but the gist is this:
We are Solo enthusiasts. We work to improve its qualities and overcome any shortcomings, whether real or perceived.
We do not give a rat's rear what your opinion is. We are attempting to solve issues common amongst us rather than exacerbating often non-existent ones, we migrate towards a generally positive world view, and frankly don't care if a DJI Phantom, operated by a wealthy treasure hunter, simultaneously found Jimmy Hoffa's long-lost corpse engaging Elvis Presley's wraith in fervent conversation, thereby enduring a lifelong supply of income from Netflix subscriptions from the canceled TV show and subsequent feature film.
Man alive, Shrek. I know he's not a troll, but... a seems close enough for guvmint work.

Sheesh....... Obviously not the sharpest knife in the drawer....

And obviously he doesn't get around the interwebs much either...

Google

 

[J R]

I do something similar to this, using the same app. It cost $5 but is worth it. I also use metal tape, as electrical tape fly's off when the motors get warm.

Thank you ,Earl!

Jerry

 

[RolandS888]

Re: balancing mmotors with a smartphone.
What we need is an android app that has actual numbers and that can record peaks in tbe various planes. X Y Z.
The best app for this is an iOS app, but I think the iphone has a better accelerometers in them than the androids have. Its all about resolution..
If anyone knows of a suitable android app please let us know, because the picture only apps, or even apps with fast flicking numbers , are next to useless. We need peak and average numbers recorded for set duration runtime to do this properly.

Having said all that, motor vibes (high frequency low amplitude) cause jello in your video. If you have shudder, or judder, or shaking it not the motors

 

[Earldgrayjr]

If you have shudder, or judder, or shaking it not the motors

Maybe I am misunderstanding, but I actually have to disgree with that. I agree that judder is an entirely diffferent thing, as are other video artifacts

What causes judder and what can be done about it?

But if your craft is shaking (either micro or macro vibrations) it does start with the motors... It of course can be the props, as they move as well, and I suppose it is possible your gimbal (which also has motors) could be vibrating, but just think about it... With the motors not running, things don't vibrate.

I understand resonance, and wave functions, and how things (like legs) can act as tuning forks, but I really don't see that is happening due to wind. At it's basis, most vibrations I see are due to the motors, or at least start there. If the motors and props didn't vibrate at all, you would have no shaking. In my experience, big shakes can be loose things, but most often (especially when they reoccur at a definable frequency) are like Rogue waves. Small vibrations (waves) adding up to big ones.

I get it that you can (and should) work to keep vibrations from being transmitted, but it is (as much as is possible) better to stop it at the source. All you have to do is experience one really bad motor (that can't be balanced) and it is obvious.

My experience is that about half of all motors also need balancing. About 1/4 really need it, and the result is more pronounced than prop balancing. Once you get the hang of it, doing it is very simple, and unlike props, it takes no extra tools if you have a PC and an iPhone, you have all the hardware you need.

 

[pyrate]

thanks to all who sent the 3dr bashers away. A little background. My solo has been rock solid out of the box. Had one pairing issue that 3DR fixed on the phone. and a battery go bad that was replaced without question.
The post was made when some good folks who are posting on this thread helped my on MY PERSONAL QUEST, to make solo as jitter free as possible. All multirotors or any thing using brushless motors are prone to this. Not just solo.

Here is the test I did after my ribbon cable installation. if you look you can find the micro shakes I am chasing down.
You will also notice at times the things is smooth as heck

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I will try and video my very 1st attempt at balancing motors, but I am a total noob at this

 

[pyrate]

Re: balancing mmotors with a smartphone.
What we need is an android app that has actual numbers and that can record peaks in tbe various planes. X Y Z.
The best app for this is an iOS app, but I think the iphone has a better accelerometers in them than the androids have. Its all about resolution..
If anyone knows of a suitable android app please let us know, because the picture only apps, or even apps with fast flicking numbers , are next to useless. We need peak and average numbers recorded for set duration runtime to do this properly.

Having said all that, motor vibes (high frequency low amplitude) cause jello in your video. If you have shudder, or judder, or shaking it not the motors

There are a ton of apps on play store that do just that. Play store is very easy to search. I chose this one for the video because it has a large easy to see display

 

[RichWest]

I agree that judder is an entirely diffferent thing, as are other video artifacts.

Be careful of the Photogs, they don't like us referring to the vibration as "judder". It really gets under their skin...

Can we create a word to describe the vibration. Since it appears that the vibration is mainly in the Y axis, would everyone be agreeable to using the word "Yudder"? It would make the conversation politically correct and then the rest of us could just focus on resolving the issue.

I will try and video my very 1st attempt at balancing motors, but I am a total noob at this

From my end, at 8:52 on the image quality improved as did the color. What caused this?

All - If you've balanced props, motors and the gimbal is free floating; why is there still yudder?

I received bearings last night and replaced a set in my suspect #4 motor. The original top bearing did have a tick, identified once removed. I believe the tick was represented in my charts as spikes rather than waves. At this point I have not tested or balanced the motor, will do that sometime this week. The replacement motor is presently installed and balanced, it runs very smoothly.

I'll stop here, as I will be adding more content to my thread "Motor Balance Data" over the next week. Just don't want to disrupt this thread on "how to" motor balance.

What we need is an android app that has actual numbers and that can record peaks in tbe various planes. X Y Z.
<snip>
Having said all that, motor vibes (high frequency low amplitude) cause jello in your video. If you have shudder, or judder, or shaking it not the motors

You have two choices with an Android app to analyze the vibration. Watch the Z-axis in real time or record the event and then output to a spread sheet and then chart the wave form. I'm using the real time method, at this point...saves time. RMS value would be a better reference rather than peak...

To your second quoted item, it is the motors and yet it isn't. Basically it's the geometry of the Solo...again another thread topic in the next week.

 

[Earldgrayjr]

Be careful of the Photogs, they don't like us referring to the vibration as "judder". It really gets under their skin...

Can we create a word to describe the vibration. Since it appears that the vibration is mainly in the Y axis, would everyone be agreeable to using the word "Yudder"? It would make the conversation politically correct and then the rest of us could just focus on resolving the issue.


From my end, at 8:52 on the image quality improved as did the color. What caused this?

All - If you've balanced props, motors and the gimbal is free floating; why is there still yudder?

I received bearings last night and replaced a set in my suspect #4 motor. The original top bearing did have a tick, identified once removed. I believe the tick was represented in my charts as spikes rather than waves. At this point I have not tested or balanced the motor, will do that sometime this week. The replacement motor is presently installed and balanced, it runs very smoothly.

I'll stop here, as I will be adding more content to my thread "Motor Balance Data" over the next week. Just don't want to disrupt this thread on "how to" motor balance.



You have two choices with an Android app to analyze the vibration. Watch the Z-axis in real time or record the event and then output to a spread sheet and then chart the wave form. I'm using the real time method, at this point...saves time. RMS value would be a better reference rather than peak...

To your second quoted item, it is the motors and yet it isn't. Basically it's the geometry of the Solo...again another thread topic in the next week.

Lol.. "Yudder" Sounds like a disease a cow might get . Kidding....

As for the "why" it is the same answer as if you had a vibration in a car. You can run it here (like on. Dyno) and see what it is.

That is another reason I suggest. People test the motors at different speeds. Just like a wheel, sometimes the vibration doesn't show up until you go faster. When testing things in flight, do the same thing for a long time (minutes) and then change. That way it is easier to sync the logs with the video.

Most times, it ends up being the motors aren't balanced for that speed, or not at all.

 

[Earldgrayjr]

thanks to all who sent the 3dr bashers away. A little background. My solo has been rock solid out of the box. Had one pairing issue that 3DR fixed on the phone. and a battery go bad that was replaced without question.
The post was made when some good folks who are posting on this thread helped my on MY PERSONAL QUEST, to make solo as jitter free as possible. All multirotors or any thing using brushless motors are prone to this. Not just solo.

Here is the test I did after my ribbon cable installation. if you look you can find the micro shakes I am chasing down.
You will also notice at times the things is smooth as heck

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I will try and video my very 1st attempt at balancing motors, but I am a total noob at this

Once you find the "spot" for the tape, don't forget to then work through how much weight. Work through more... And less.... Until you get the sweet spot. After that, don't forget the up and down. Move your tape up and down the bell for the best final results. If you have balanced props, My bet is that gets it.

 

[pyrate]

will do

 

[User Name]

"...maybe its not your cable"

Not to disagree that motor balance can be the source of the vibrations, the point of soft mounts and cables is to isolate the gimbal from vibrations. So it's still an issue of the cables not doing part of their job because of the stiffness.

 

[pyrate]

except I dont have that cable anymore.
I ditched the hard HDMI cable for a ribbon cable, and I stripped the data cable too.

The video above is after those mods that should have effectively eliminated the cable as the cause

 

[RolandS888]

Earl and RichWest (and others of course), you are a wealth of information. I read intently and pick up and put into practice as much as I can. Always reading, always learning.
Years ago I started motor balancing on my fixed wing UAVs (had to, HK motors were shockers back then) and when I mentioned it to people they would look at me strangely and ask why the hell am I balancing the motor? (FWIW, I dont use HK in any aircraft that matter these days)
I used to disassemble the motor, insert a longer shaft, and balance the bell on a prop balancer, adding weight inside the bell.
Rich I just read your motor balance data thread, nice work, I like to see numbers and quantifiable improvements.
The iphone app certainly aids in doing this, but there isnt an android version of that app, so I guess I'll revisit the available android "buzzing picture" type vibes apps and just make do with one of those. I also saw a YT vid of the guys at flitetest doing motor vibe analysis by bouncing a laser pointer off a mirror mounted on the MR arm, onto a wall to really amplify the vibes, it seemed to work too.
I intend to go through solo's motors and balance them, although its not a big problem on my machine, it is perceptible by touch so that is something that I want to rectify.

 

[mudman]

would running your solo on the ground with props off be a good way to see if motor vibrations are causing the issues? I just replied on another thread, I'm thinking that some of the shaking could be caused by the way solo corrects yaw mine is very snappy when it does a small correction.

 

[Earldgrayjr]

would running your solo on the ground with props off be a good way to see if motor vibrations are causing the issues? I just replied on another thread, I'm thinking that some of the shaking could be caused by the way solo corrects yaw mine is very snappy when it does a small correction.

Yes... But even correcting yaw, if the motor isn't vibrating, or vibrating less, then that woukld matter. Even with yaw, vibration can be the underlying cause. In my mind, you have two choices. Eliminate it at it's source and/or stop it's transmition to your camera, I have done a few things.

Right or wrong, the very first thing i did was hover the Solo in front of me and watch it. Not for the faint of heart, but I got right up close to it. I then touched different parts of it. The legs. The arms. Each individually, and repeatedly. You have to be very careful not to get hurt, and not to shove your Solo around, but with a light touch, you can learn a lot from this.

I went through a whole battery doing this. What I learned from this first step is that my Gopro was actually vibrating more than I imagined from the video I was getting. I also found that one motor was producing a LOT more vibrations than the others.

I then took off the props, and ran motors individually with MP, noting the vibration values at different speeds 30%, 50%, 70%, 100% I then balanced the motors, first making a mark on the top of each motpr as the 12 Oclock position. I documented the vibrations at 50% to start. Added metal tape at the 12 Oclock postion, and documented. Moved to 1 Oclock and documented. Moved it to 2 Oclock, 3, 4, 5, 6 etc. until a clear trend emerged. Once the "light" position was found, I then worked my way through half the weight, and twice the weight, until the correct amount of weight was clear. After that, I moved the weight up, and down in similar fashion until that was also clear.

From this excercise, it was clear that one motor (the one with the ding in it) was much more out of whack than the others, even after balancing. I replalced it, and repeated the balancing process for that motor.

At that point, I put the (balanced) props back on and hovered it again. The improvement was pretty dramatic. I then started moving the Solo around (with the sticks) and watched the gimbal move around. It was at that point I decided to balance my gimbal. The idea was that if I balanced it, it would have more power to handle the edge cases. That assumption was corrrect.

At that point I was satisfied. I have a sheet of sorbothane, and put some squares on the main board some time back. I could imagine adding more to the GoPro, the gimbal, or even in the triangles in the legs, but in the end, I dont need to. At least not at the moment.

Hope it helps...