What if....GPS signal

[rrmccabe]

The white one uses uBlox too and can't do anything about poor GPS any different

Well for what its worth the white one out performs the black one when it comes to GPS. So it must be with 3DRs implementation with mounting or in the software code.

I am sure 3DR will get it worked out.

 

[Ian [P13]]

You can't say that without doing like for like tests, I've even analysed users logs against their video, flying low next to concrete structures which are clearly blocking the GPS and raising the HDOP, flying under bridges etc, no software logic can deal with that.

I've seen a quote from Rob (one of the Arducopter developers) he said "You can't unscramble an egg" and when it comes to poor GPS it's a sound analogy.

I frequent the Inspire forums and see plenty of problems there too with GPS, often with the choice of location being questionable.

 

[Rich]

Has anyone tried shutting off the power to the GoPro (pulling the battery) to see if this affects the GPS signal quality?

 

[Ian [P13]]

@Rich Not that I know of (I have actually suggested it out of curiosity) as the GoPro does output a fair bit of noise, I suspect there won't be an issue as there is copper shielding protecting the back of the uBlox from internal interference.

 

[RyanG]

So IF they decide to NOW use the better technology, would that mean a hardware fix. I would imagine and if they rolled out the Solo with the new technology they would have a whole lot of people returning the thing for the newer version.

So would they even consider this now that so many are in the wild?

Ryan G

 

[Rich]

I'm just sitting at my desk and it occurred to me to try this. I have a spectrum analyzer and can check, but GoPro's are known to output noise and some other brands have had trouble with this noise.

Just wondering!

 

[rrmccabe]

You can't say that without doing like for like tests.

Ian, I have. So yes I can say this.

I can't vouch for the V+ as I sold it but I have a P3 and the Solo and take off from same exact spot usually. The P3 never has an issue, gets lots of satellites where the Solo wont. A couple times I have had to power cycle the Solo to get enough satellites for the Solo to fly because after 4 or 5 minutes I still did not have enough.

So

the white one out performs the black one when it comes to GPS.

Is not something I have pulled out of the air.

Solo #1 with the first firmware had no issues at all. Solo #2 with the new firmware is temperamental when it comes to GPS. Now I don't know if its the new bird or the firmware.

 

[Ian [P13]]

I was talking about fail over behaviour, you're now moving the goal posts to pre-arm behaviour.

The Solo has a set of robust pre-arm checks, so it will likely take more time before it'll arm for take off and it won't take off with a poor HDOP/PDOP as that's simply asking for trouble. DJI in the past didn't even have pre-arm checks though they have some now, I'd be very surprised if they're as comprehensive.

The check at the moment is a HDOP value of under 2 which is fairly strict, the Iris would arm at up to 2.5, so maybe 3DR might decide to change that threshold in future but I'd doubt it, on the basis your day to day use cases are going to be heavily GPS reliant so 3DR may continue a "better safe than sorry approach."

On that basis I think DJI gear will always arm quicker and more readily.

I did make a meme of Philip's quote who's the hardware lead as it demonstrates the thinking behind pre-arm checks.

 

[Ian [P13]]

@RyanG Changing the GPS module is fairly straight forward so if 3DR ever wanted to they could do it as a mod (keeping the warranty as they did with some Iris upgrades) also the expansion bay has suitable connectivity to allow a 2nd GPS to be added (though lack of space on the top of the shell for placement makes this unlikely).

The Neo-7N is here to stay as 3DR prefer it to the alternatives, so much so it's now being rolled out as the default GPS for Pixhawk purchases from their store.

 

[rrmccabe]

I was talking about fail over behaviour, you're now moving the goal posts to pre-arm behaviour.

Fair enough. Would be hard to test the fail over behavior without a ton of work.

 

[GoodnNuff]

Interesting regarding the Gopro as a culprit. Rich, as I've said, I've not had a single GPS issue with Solo #2 and it locks on sats very fast. However I've only done one flight with the Gopro attached. Everywhere I've been flying is where I've flown and filmed numerous times, so I hadn't attached the camera, boring scenery. I'm going to head out soon and fly a couple of batteries with the Gopro and see if I have issues.

 

[SteveMyers75]

Like I said it's PDOP that's being measured anyway, it's unlikely to be changed from people referring to it as HDOP as that was the value that was the original intent.
https://github.com/diydrones/ardupilot/issues/462

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
The uBlox NEO-M8N was tested alongside the NEO-7N by 3DR (in the US, EU and Australia) and it didn't pass their testing, the wideband antenna for one picking up more noise so the true results between the two were negligible, this has been dealt with on the Solo Facebook page a number of times. The M8N also reports satellites in the count it can't usefully utilise which artificially lowers the HDOP (and potentially PDOP) it reports so it can allow a take off when strictly it shouldn't. Finally there's also an open bug using the M8N... So in a nutshell it's a wasted modding effort right now.

https://github.com/diydrones/ardupilot/issues/2097

I agree with you on PDOP/HDOP, but I don't think calling it HDOP will change until they stop displaying it as such on all of the APPs.

As far as testing with the NEO-M8N, I'm thinking of this as a "props off" ground test to satisfy my curiosity more than anything else. This is how I figure these things out for myself.
When they tell me they've already tested something like this, I tend to go with "Trust, but Verify"

Too many time in my life have I had to do a forehead-slap and say "I knew they were wrong...why didn't I test that myself !"

 

[GoodnNuff]

I flew through two batteries with the GoPro and not a single issue.
I love this thing more with each flight.
GPS took about 90 seconds to lock on to 13 sats and HDOP of -1.3