The "GPS glitch"

Rodney Johnson · Jul 19, 2015

David Weston said:
I wish I could say I am incredibly impressed but I do that almost every day to some degree or another. I just got back from a Tower test flight and "walked my SOLO down the street toward me about 6 inches off the street. I fly out of my back yard (with WIFI all over the place), fly around and land between 2 trees on a 18"x18" square every time. I am not saying your demo isn't to be noted, but the implication the SOLO is way outclassed is just wrong. Don't want to get anything started just that I believe I could put my SOLO behind yours and do the same thing. Jus' sayin'

Well Dave,, you would be impressed if you seen my Solo do the same test before I sent it back. I never said anything about outclassing Solo,, it acually is in a class of its own but needs work.
The GPS issues that most everyone has will not be fixed with firmware updates,, it is a hardware issue and if you have no issues at all with your Solo then I would say that there is definitely an inconsistency between the hardware being used in the solo.

I had nothing but issues flying my solo in this same test, I had 5 solid GPS lockout in the backyard and two in the front yard.

So Dave,,, if your still not impressed,,
How much do you want for your Solo

Lonewulph · Jul 19, 2015

Rodney Johnson said:
How much do you want for your Solo

My hex behaves the same way Rodney, when I got the Solo I expected the same. When mine took on a mind of it's own and crashed three times, (most everyone has seen my ball park crash video), it is clear that, for a number of proven and speculated reasons, not all Solos are created equal. It would be inaccurate to make a blanket determination that the Solo vehicle itself is a flawed product just as much as it would be inaccurate to say the Solo unit is flawless, flies perfect everytime. There are too many mixed experiences under the same flying conditions, such as yours, mine, and Dave's. Since I'm not having the awesome experience Dave is I think I'm just going to hang out a bit. 3DR is working on further firmware updates and testing possible hardware glitches. I have had some cool flights that I've uploaded, but it only takes one glitch to cause that pucker factor to go through the roof as the vehicle turns rogue and make it the last flight. I think the gps is implemented incorrectly, and the wrong kind. I like that thing mounted up high, away from everything and not obstructed by plastics, nearby wires, etc. Might have nothing to do with it at all, I don't know, the P2 and P3 all look to be internal, what gives?
PS PM me if you're interested in another custom hex.

David Weston · Jul 19, 2015

OK,,you win,,whatever, But here's my private response to you if you feel it needs to be public:

Rodney,

Seriously I don’t want to start anything. We’re both mature and on the same team of helping others. 1st. I guess I am skeptical of your statement that “most everyone” has GPS issues. That’s a pretty broad statement that frankly, if unsubstantiated, is more inflammatory than helpful. It could be true, and maybe not. I am not denying that your experience wasn’t what you were expecting. I could say “hardly anyone has issues but some do”, and that could be true, or maybe not. You obviously have experience and built your own mega drone. Now, that is impressive. Is it hardware, is it firmware, is it the user community that by and large doesn’t have much experience if any working with such new devices. Most probably is a combination of those factors and more of which we will never know the ratios. Let’s agree, the business is growing beyond the ability of the companies to either produce them or support them. I wont mention any well know names. Bottom line, I know you have incredible experience at this, light years beyond the new people coming on scene. They are influenced by what you say. I think SOLO is a great product. I have had nothing but stellar performance. And I believe I could follow you through the trees..

I’ll keep my SOLO but thanks anyway.

Your comrade in arms,

David Weston

Central Florida

Rodney Johnson · Jul 19, 2015

Lonewulph said:
My hex behaves the same way Rodney, when I got the Solo I expected the same. When mine took on a mind of it's own and crashed three times, (most everyone has seen my ball park crash video), it is clear that, for a number of proven and speculated reasons, not all Solos are created equal. It would be inaccurate to make a blanket determination that the Solo vehicle itself is a flawed product just as much as it would be inaccurate to say the Solo unit is flawless, flies perfect everytime. There are too many mixed experiences under the same flying conditions, such as yours, mine, and Dave's. Since I'm not having the awesome experience Dave is I think I'm just going to hang out a bit. 3DR is working on further firmware updates and testing possible hardware glitches. I have had some cool flights that I've uploaded, but it only takes one glitch to cause that pucker factor to go through the roof as the vehicle turns rogue and make it the last flight. I think the gps is implemented incorrectly, and the wrong kind. I like that thing mounted up high, away from everything and not obstructed by plastics, nearby wires, etc. Might have nothing to do with it at all, I don't know, the P2 and P3 all look to be internal, what gives?
PS PM me if you're interested in another custom hex.

I love the idea of the Solo, I just purchased another Pixhawk so I'm now up to 5 and I have been using Pixhawk since day one and I have yet to have any issues with the 3DR pixhawks line.

In time once 3drobotics gets the bugs worked out the Solo will be a great machine.

Other people are having wifi issues and I myself had ZERO. I had flown my solo just shy of two miles out with stock antennas were others are purchasing aftermarket antennas....
It truly is a mystery as to all the oddities in the Solo..
Still waiting on pixhawk II to be sold separately but that won't happen for some time I'm sure. ..

It's crazy that's for sure.

Raybro · Jul 19, 2015

No GPS issues here as well. No real issues to speak of at all. It's a great machine.

Rodney Johnson · Jul 19, 2015

David Weston said:
OK,,you win,,whatever, But here's my private response to you if you feel it needs to be public:

Rodney,

Seriously I don’t want to start anything. We’re both mature and on the same team of helping others. 1st. I guess I am skeptical of your statement that “most everyone” has GPS issues. That’s a pretty broad statement that frankly, if unsubstantiated, is more inflammatory than helpful. It could be true, and maybe not. I am not denying that your experience wasn’t what you were expecting. I could say “hardly anyone has issues but some do”, and that could be true, or maybe not. You obviously have experience and built your own mega drone. Now, that is impressive. Is it hardware, is it firmware, is it the user community that by and large doesn’t have much experience if any working with such new devices. Most probably is a combination of those factors and more of which we will never know the ratios. Let’s agree, the business is growing beyond the ability of the companies to either produce them or support them. I wont mention any well know names. Bottom line, I know you have incredible experience at this, light years beyond the new people coming on scene. They are influenced by what you say. I think SOLO is a great product. I have had nothing but stellar performance. And I believe I could follow you through the trees..

I’ll keep my SOLO but thanks anyway.

Your comrade in arms,

David Weston

Central Florida

Dave ,,
Sorry ,, this isn't about who's winning, , I just hope that Everyone would have the same experience as you are having.

I myself didn't get that, , as I am experience I'm speaking for the ones that aren't.
Everyone that purchased the Solo is expecting trouble free flight and that is not happening. In time maybe,, but not right now and it's a crap shoot getting one like yours or others like you that have gotten lucky.

I had a few people from my home town that sent there Solo back because of issues. . So I'm not the only one around here.

As I was told by 3DR rep.
The Solo was not ready to be released...
That's all that needs to be said. ..

Are you sure you won't part with yours?

David Weston · Jul 19, 2015

Rodney, really, "Everyone"??..I respect and admire your experience. You make broad comments, that's your choice. But if you will, please back that up with some facts, data, whatever. Please, when you say "everyone",,a "crap shoot",,. I believe you have lots to contribute like a lot of other people here. I have excellent expereineces, willing to share, you? Yes, you have a "BIG" bird. I wish mine was a big as yours

Jubalr · Jul 19, 2015

David Weston said:
Rodney, really, "Everyone"??..I respect and admire your experience. You make broad comments, that's your choice. But if you will, please back that up with some facts, data, whatever. Please, when you say "everyone",,a "crap shoot",,. I believe you have lots to contribute like a lot of other people here. I have excellent expereineces, willing to share, you? Yes, you have a "BIG" bird. I wish mine was a big as yours

It is interesting, that's for sure. Like you Dave, I have not had a single issue, Gps or WiFi. Got in some great flying and flew a survey with Tower. Even did a little Acro with the GoPro on board. But while there are some having issues, it is like any product and the ones with issues will always be vocal, and should be. But with 1000s of units in the field now, any anecdotal references to #s with problems won't mean much. There is no denying some are having an issue where others are not. I tend to think more of a QC problem with their new manufacturing partner in China than anything else. Actual design problems would show 100% effect, not hit and miss among customers. Rodney and I have a similar history and time in the hobby and I have no doubt the issues he had were very real. But I have not had those issues so that makes me think a QC problem.

Rodney Johnson · Jul 19, 2015

David Weston said:
Rodney, really, "Everyone"??..I respect and admire your experience. You make broad comments, that's your choice. But if you will, please back that up with some facts, data, whatever. Please, when you say "everyone",,a "crap shoot",,. I believe you have lots to contribute like a lot of other people here. I have excellent expereineces, willing to share, you? Yes, you have a "BIG" bird. I wish mine was a big as yours

Dave
When 3DR admits to GPS issues and other issues I would say,, yes ,, there are GPS issues, , as for everyone, , let's face it,, figure of speech and taken out of context, ,, but if you have to go there, ,, ok. ..

It's like you are denying that myself and [not all] "many others" have or had,,, for those of us that sent Solo home until he can play with the big boys. . Trouble. .

I don't have to have evidence ,, the evidence is all around and that's why mine and many others, ,, NOT all,, are being sent back..
Again in very glad you are having ZERO issues. Personally I expected more but then again I'm not a newbe.

I do have to say Solo flys great as long as you are not in any flight mode that uses GPS.. It even flip in acro mode just give yourself some altitude for the first time. .

Also,, I had to read your reply twice as I believe there was an insult or maybe a compliment in there, , I couldn't tell.
Anyway the 810 is my small hexacopter..

David Weston · Jul 19, 2015

Thank you Jubair, I realized going in that this is the bleeding edge. To be sure there are, and will be issues, not only with SOLO but others., those to market before,,and after. I just take exception to statements like "everyone", almost everyone, etc. I don't know, all I know is my personal experiences. I am not a guru. I do study and take look at myself as a student, learn from everyone I can. Rich M is awesome!! So far, with due diligence, it has been great! I just would hope that those who use statements as "everyone, almost everyone, etc" would please just relate their own experiences instead of trying to trash so many good experiences by folks who are just entering this really fun emerging technology

Rodney Johnson · Jul 19, 2015

Jubalr said:
It is interesting, that's for sure. Like you Dave, I have not had a single issue, Gps or WiFi. Got in some great flying and flew a survey with Tower. Even did a little Acro with the GoPro on board. But while there are some having issues, it is like any product and the ones with issues will always be vocal, and should be. But with 1000s of units in the field now, any anecdotal references to #s with problems won't mean much. There is no denying some are having an issue where others are not. I tend to think more of a QC problem with their new manufacturing partner in China than anything else. Actual design problems would show 100% effect, not hit and miss among customers. Rodney and I have a similar history and time in the hobby and I have no doubt the issues he had were very real. But I have not had those issues so that makes me think a QC problem.

Very well could be a QC issue, but again,, when it's hit and miss and differant issues I want to say it is QC with the hardware manufacturer's .

Jubalr
Do you remember back in the early late 80's or early 90's when Futaba moved there Factory to Tiwan or someplace.
Shortly after there were many Futaba issues with QC and also harware suppliers..

I think this might be a similar situation..
I guess time will tell and ONLY 3DR will know the real numbers...

David Weston · Jul 19, 2015

Rodney,, I in no way mean to be offensive,I love the way this forum tries to help others. I know you want to assist others also. Peace brother.

rrmccabe · Jul 19, 2015

I like peanut butter sandwiches

Rodney Johnson · Jul 19, 2015

David Weston said:
Thank you Jubair, I realized going in that this is the bleeding edge. To be sure there are, and will be issues, not only with SOLO but others., those to market before,,and after. I just take exception to statements like "everyone", almost everyone, etc. I don't know, all I know is my personal experiences. I am not a guru. I do study and take look at myself as a student, learn from everyone I can. Rich M is awesome!! So far, with due diligence, it has been great! I just would hope that those who use statements as "everyone, almost everyone, etc" would please just relate their own experiences instead of trying to trash so many good experiences by folks who are just entering this really fun emerging technology

Acually it relates to my own personal experience and the 3 other people from town and the many people on YouTube and this Forum...

Sorry not Trashing just being honest, , next time I will bring sugar to the table for those that don't want to hear the facts..

Please don't spill the milk.

Rodney Johnson · Jul 19, 2015

David Weston said:
Rodney,, I in no way mean to be offensive,I love the way this forum tries to help others. I know you want to assist others also. Peace brother.

Dave
I understand, , sorry if I upset you or others, , it's not my intention...
It is what it is an I hope 3DR can get the problems solved for Everyone that is having problems. ..

Rodney Johnson · Jul 19, 2015

rrmccabe said:
I like peanut butter sandwiches

Ham and cheese,,, peanut butter and banana ,,

Dirby · Jul 19, 2015

Rodney Johnson said:
Ham and cheese,,, peanut butter and banana ,,

sourcroute

rrmccabe · Jul 20, 2015

OK back on topic

Just got a reply from 3DR. Have to say I appreciate their honesty and offering to send props.

I only have one comment. They talk about flying "too close to a house". Yea, it was close to my house. No doubt. I commonly do that and will continue to do that. The Phantom 2 V+ has taken off from same spot over 100 times with zero issues and the new P3 at least a dozen. For that matter the Solo has a dozen times as well.

That said, I am in control of the sticks and prepared to fly manual if needed. What I do not expect and hope 3DR resolves is the split second delay it takes to switch to manual before it starts the 50' horizontal deviation I saw in the logs. Now, it never actually moved the 50' as mission planner showed but for a split second it jumped horizontal a foot (and fast) as I was trying to sit it down, thus causing the Solo to flip. No way to respond to that.

I don't know the issue or am I going to pretend I do, but there is in fact an issue. Hardware or firmware I have no clue. Not my monkey, not my circus. Just hope they get it resolved soon.

Oh by the way anytime I ever flipped my Phantom over DJI was quick to send me replacement props. Said no one ever !

Diego (3drobotics)

Jul 20, 9:11 AM

Hi Rich,

We went through your logs again.
We see that there was a GPS glitch that for some reason the Solo didn't detect.
The Solo also detected a compass variance, which means it was near some metallic object or power line.
We see that the Solo is flying too close to a house. That could explain both the compass variance and GPS glitch.

Given that the Solo should have detected that glitch, I will send you a set of propellers.
Nevertheless, please follow the Solo's Best Practices and avoid flying near buildings or trees since those could block the GPS signal.
http://3drobotics.com/kb/best-practices/

I'll transfer your info to Customer Service so they can help you get replacement propellers.
They will contact you within 2 business days.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Best regards,

Diego
[Technical support engineer]

ChrisM101 · Jul 20, 2015

Ryan Diego was the one who claimed my GPS glitch was due to proximity to a tree... I sent proof that his GPS indicated RTH location was over 40 foot the wrong way, they sent new props, even though i barely ticked the branches of the tree. MY RTH was off 40 or more feet, i told him to pull the prior log as it was just RTH and battery change and fly again all from the same location. Whatever is going on with the GPS is a real issue and not just software. I personally cannot understand the use of the location they chose. Why is it not on a mast or atleast away from the power input from battery and the GoPro...
GoPro causes GPS interference its been an issue since people first started using them in the air.

Kabz · Jul 21, 2015

This thread was interesting.
On a note about CS -- I had an open ticket that was sent as a preventative trouble ticket, even though I had no real issue because it turned out to be a geo-fencing issue, so the Solo is working fine.
3DR got back to me since I didn't respond to their advanced log e-mail which would have me go into Terminal and extract additional logs.
Thought it was nice that they are keeping track of all their tickets, and not assuming an issue is closed due to radio silence from the user (me) since I was out of town.

But again, this just seems like another issue where the LOUDEST voices are the ones with problems.
And I would probably be in the same boat if I had an issue, and I hope to not have one, especially once my gimbal comes and I start putting it to work.

Also the folks registered here are a small fraction of users, and an even smaller fraction are having issues.
Not trying to say these are not valid, and potentially a bad omen for the future of the Solo, but what we ARE seeing is 3DR providing replacement units and squashing any major problems users may have.

I am anticipating a new WAVE of complaints and issues once the gimbal arrives, and people have to install it on their own. No matter how simple it will be, someone will have an issue and try to curse the name of the Solo to no end.
There is a lot of hyperbole going on in these problem threads, where people make grand declarations and more gullible folks (who probably don't have time to wade through every post) will take some of that info to heart.

I don't want people to stop posting about their issues, because I end up learning more about the quad from the discussion, but the hysterics are a bit much.

But seriously, where is my effing gimbal?