Robots That Could Kill on Their Own!

SteveReno · Oct 25, 2016

This has been expected for sometime,
but the reality is, now that it's here, is bit shocking!

When we Hobbyist's dream of a autonomous UAV "Solo's hehe", Were thinking of a vehicle that can autonomously take video, avoid obstacles, knows about it's surrounding & adjust flight accordingly.

All that said, seems that our Government has dreams of it's own.
Autonomous UAV's with artificial intelligence that can, preform S&D missions "Search & Destroy missions" Autonomously.

My main point is. the sharp contrast between Hobbiest & Government given the same tools.

It may be a wonderful idea "Saving our soldiers life's"
Or used upon"civilians" While shopping at a local mall, a autonomous UAV's with artificial intelligence can:
Scan, ID & search for gun's, explosives all in under 30 seconds & then act accordingly. Good thing, bad thing?

Your thoughts

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/26/us/pentagon-artificial-intelligence-terminator.html?_r=0

SteveReno · Oct 25, 2016

SteveReno said:
This has been expected for sometime,
but the reality is, now that it's here, is bit shocking!

When we Hobbyist's dream of a autonomous UAV "Solo's hehe", Were thinking of a vehicle that can autonomously take video, avoid obstacles, knows about it's surrounding & adjust flight accordingly.

All that said, seems that our Government has dreams of it's own.
Autonomous UAV's with artificial intelligence that can, preform S&D missions "Search & Destroy missions" Autonomously.

My main point is. the sharp contrast between Hobbiest & Government given the same tools.

It may be a wonderful idea "Saving our soldiers life's"
Or used upon"civilians" While shopping at a local mall, a autonomous UAV's with artificial intelligence can:
Scan, ID & search for gun's, explosives all in under 30 seconds & then act accordingly. Good thing, bad thing?

Your thoughts

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/26/us/pentagon-artificial-intelligence-terminator.html?_r=0

Maddog · Oct 25, 2016

Taking the human brain out of the loop is a recipe for disaster.

Especially when you consider the federal government is run by incompetent, greedy bureaucrats. And defense contractors are greedy and driven primarily by money. Meaning a "malfunction" wouldn't be surprising.

Would you trust such a machine built by these people? I wouldn't.

SteveReno · Oct 25, 2016

Well, I'm sure they'll have some sort of human operator that has the final decision to do the "destroy" part, but can't help but to agree with you @Maddog, that somewhere down the line, Lives will be taken by mistakes.

User Name · Oct 26, 2016

SteveReno said:
Well, I'm sure they'll have some sort of human operator that has the final decision to do the "destroy" part.

Initially. But just as previous generations would have balked at the idea of remotely operated vehicles with these types of capabilities, they've become accepted today. Likewise, future generations will come to accept vehicles with 100% autonomy deciding themselves, based on some computer algorithm, whether or not to kill someone.

Maddog · Oct 26, 2016

User Name said:
Initially. But just as previous generations would have balked at the idea of remotely operated vehicles with these types of capabilities, they've become accepted today. Likewise, future generations will come to accept vehicles with 100% autonomy deciding themselves, based on some computer algorithm, whether or not to kill someone.

I hope you're wrong.

PdxSteve · Oct 26, 2016

This is happening faster than most realize. They're already arming drones in the middle east (our type of drones, not the big military drones already being used for quite some time), and ISIS is using them against us and other allies for spotting targets as well as delivering explosives to a target. The military is currently hiring specialists who work with uav swarm technology. When given the option to send a live human being into a battlefield vs a piece of hardware, I think most people will say send the hardware and spare our soldiers lives. War is about to get very interesting, and you can't put that genie back in the bottle. Other blacklist nation states are working on the same things. China, North Korea, etc. It's coming. There is a reason why China has hacked all of our major defense contractors and stolen just about all IP that we have. They're not doing it just to have it. They're doing it to implement it and build up their armies, and they won't hesitate to use it like we would. This is a natural evolution and progression. First it was just soldiers with blades. Then soldiers on horses. Then guns. Then tanks and planes came. Then missiles. Then drones, etc. Each iteration in technological improvement we further remove humans from the equation and the potential destructive capability per soldier vastly grows as well (sword vs shoulder launched missile). We are doing that in every facet of our lives (automation), not just war. Self driving cars, license plate readers to catch speeders and locate where they are at any given time, surveillance, the militarization of the police, etc. All being watched by a "computer" and making decisions based on the inputs and algorithms.

Maddog · Oct 26, 2016

PdxSteve said:
This is happening faster than most realize. They're already arming drones in the middle east, and ISIS is using them against us and other allies for spotting targets as well as delivering explosives to a target. The military is currently hiring specialists who work with uav swarm technology. When given the option to send a live human being into a battlefield vs a piece of hardware, I think most people will say send the hardware and spare our soldiers lives. War is about to get very interesting, and you can't put that genie back in the bottle. Other blacklist nation states are working on the same things. China, North Korea, etc. It's coming. There is a reason why China has hacked all of our major defense contractors and stolen just about all IP that we have. They're not doing it just to have it. They're doing it to implement it and build up their armies, and they won't hesitate to use it like we would. This is a natural evolution and progression. First it was just soldiers with blades. Then soldiers on horses. Then guns. Then tanks and planes came. Then missiles. Then drones, etc. Each iteration in technological improvement we further remove humans from the equation and the potential destructive capability per soldier vastly grows as well (sword vs shoulder launched missile). We are doing that in every facet of our lives (automation), not just war. Self driving cars, license plate readers to catch speeders and locate where they are at any given time, surveillance, the militarization of the police, etc. All being watched by a "computer" and making decisions based on the inputs and algorithms.

I don't mind the computer/drone/robot finding a potentially hostile enemy and passing the information on to a human who then verifies the target and makes the final decision to attack.

I don't like the idea of the computer making all those decisions on its own because man-made machines make mistakes.

Wasn't it Robo Cop 2 where the giant robot, during a demonstration, told the man in the conference room to put down a gun? The man put the gun down, but the robot killed him anyway.

PdxSteve · Oct 26, 2016

Yes, or skynet in terminator. I don't like the idea either, but it's not going to go away. AI is here to stay. yes there will be problems, errors, etc while developing the technology, just like there were with cars, airplanes, etc. The main fear I have is these are all controlled via code, which someone WILL hack into and take control. There is no computer system that cannot be broken into. There are ALWAYS bugs, which are exploitable. I mean, Iran forced one of our UAVs down and captured it, and those are "top of the line".

Watch the "cyberwar" series on VICE. It's all real, and will scare you.

PdxSteve · Oct 26, 2016

This talk is nothing compared to a foreign state destroying our electrical infrastructure with code like WE (nsa) used on Iran to destroy their nuclear centrifuges by spinning them beyond their capabilities and causing them to destroy themselves. Stuxnet. Code did that. A virus that infected millions of computers world wide but only targeted the centrifuges in Iran by targeting their specific PLCs (programmable logic controllers). Code destroying real equipment in the real world. The same code has been proven to be able to take out all of our power generators, and those take several years from when you order one til you receive them. Imagine 2,000 of them going out at once. They're 20 ton generators. not just sitting on the shelf somewhere.

Here's a demo of the code (actual stuxnet code) causing this 20 ton generator to start leaping off the ground and destroying itself.

Maddog · Oct 26, 2016

You're right that an enemy no longer needs an army to invade America to take over. Shut down the power grid and the country grinds to a halt.

There have been a number of news stories about the vulnerability of the power grid, but nobody does anything about it.

Congress doesn't seem to take it seriously so no money is allocated.

User Name · Oct 26, 2016

Maddog said:
Congress doesn't seem to take it seriously so no money is allocated.

Congress is in the pocket of the military industrial complex. Attacks on our infrastructure would be an excuse for war, in which case the MIC would profit immensely. In other words, attack = war = profits. So congress isn't NOT taking it seriously. They're ignoring it on purpose, so their handlers can profit when it happens.