Help Figure Out What Went Wrong

[Odogster]

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if someone would be able to assist me with reading the attached log file (its a .tlog file renamed to .txt) to figure out why this happened. I fly in this field all the time so the environment is familiar to me. I was flying at about 100 feet doing a circle around the empty field in the park when within the matter of what seemed like a millisecond the Solo dropped around 40 feet while going forward and went plunging into a tree. Here is the painful video:

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[Jubalr]

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if someone would be able to assist me with reading the attached log file (its a .tlog file renamed to .txt) to figure out why this happened. I fly in this field all the time so the environment is familiar to me. I was flying at about 100 feet doing a circle around the empty field in the park when within the matter of what seemed like a millisecond the Solo dropped around 40 feet while going forward and went plunging into a tree. Here is the painful video:

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I just had a minute this morning and took a quick look. There were no errors, GPS/HDOP were both good. While hovering near you it went into manual mode. Do you have manual mode assigned? How much experience do you have in manual? I only ask as it appears that while in manual mode and when it started to take off quickly, the CH2 input was at full stick which I believe is pitch (forward/back).

 

[Maddog]

From looking at the video, it appears you were flying forward fast, (looking at props in video) which would involve full forward pitch with right stick. As Solo approached the tree, it was descending at the same speed but there was no altitude correction using the left stick.

The descent into the tree actually took 1-2 seconds.
So, it looks like you were flying fast and did not correct for altitude loss and hit the tree. According to Jubair, the logs show you were flying in manual mode, so, I would say it is pilot error.

Just my .02 cents.

 

[Acroduster]

To expand on Maddog's statement, it has been found that in Manual mode, while traveling at high speed, Solo has a tendency to lose altitude even though the left stick is not touched. In Manual mode, altitude is controlled by the on-board barometer. I can only assume that the faster air passing over the aircraft reduces the local pressure around it, thereby tricking the barometer into thinking the aircraft is climbing. Solo reacts by reducing its altitude, thinking it is actually maintaining altitude.

 

[Maddog]

To expand on Maddog's statement, it has been found that in Manual mode, while traveling at high speed, Solo has a tendency to lose altitude even though the left stick is not touched. In Manual mode, altitude is controlled by the on-board barometer. I can only assume that the faster air passing over the aircraft reduces the local pressure around it, thereby tricking the barometer into thinking the aircraft is climbing. Solo reacts by reducing its altitude, thinking it is actually maintaining altitude.

Good points- the first time I tried manual with Solo I nearly nose- dived right into the ground. It was a big surprise for me- nothing like the Syma I had practiced with.

Maybe Solo needs a pitot tube, etc., to deal with that.

 

[Jubalr]

To expand on Maddog's statement, it has been found that in Manual mode, while traveling at high speed, Solo has a tendency to lose altitude even though the left stick is not touched. In Manual mode, altitude is controlled by the on-board barometer. I can only assume that the faster air passing over the aircraft reduces the local pressure around it, thereby tricking the barometer into thinking the aircraft is climbing. Solo reacts by reducing its altitude, thinking it is actually maintaining altitude.

Solo uses the barometer regardless of mode. As far as losing altitude, that was found to be related to the angle of pitch forward at high speed. Too much pitch and it will lose lift as a matter of physics. Here it was discussed and tested a few months ago..

 

[Odogster]

From looking at the video, it appears you were flying forward fast, (looking at props in video) which would involve full forward pitch with right stick. As Solo approached the tree, it was descending at the same speed but there was no altitude correction using the left stick.

The descent into the tree actually took 1-2 seconds.
So, it looks like you were flying fast and did not correct for altitude loss and hit the tree. According to Jubair, the logs show you were flying in manual mode, so, I would say it is pilot error.
Hello,

Thanks for looking, I have flown more times in manual mode than I can remember, and 100s of times in the exact location. I have FLY:MANUAL mapped to button A, and FLY mapped to B. I would agree with you except that the Solo has always maintained its altitude to within 5 to maybe 10 feet, this was a 40 foot drop in around a second, we will see what 3dr says but I'm of the opinion something failed. At the end of the day besides the Gimbal and the copter everything else seems to be OK. I won't know about gimbal or the rest of the components till I get it them in the air again. Thanks again!

Just my .02

I just had a minute this morning and took a quick look. There were no errors, GPS/HDOP were both good. While hovering near you it went into manual mode. Do you have manual mode assigned? How much experience do you have in manual? I only ask as it appears that while in manual mode and when it started to take off quickly, the CH2 input was at full stick which I believe is pitch (forward/back).

 

[Odogster]

Solo uses the barometer regardless of mode. As far as losing altitude, that was found to be related to the angle of pitch forward at high speed. Too much pitch and it will lose lift as a matter of physics. Here it was discussed and tested a few months ago..

Thanks for looking into it, but my contention remains that altitude hold is altitude hold, and the literature says maintains altitude while in FLY:MANUAL mode. The drag coefficient and downward force of the air is what the altitude hold is supposed to compensate for, as it had, on all the other flights. So a 5 foot drop is an understandable height loss IMO and would be acceptable, but not 40 feet in a second. Otherwise the altitude hold should be based on speed and the resulting pitch, and that's not how they describe it and not how it has worked in the past. I do appreciate the assistance, I'll see what they say at 3dr.

 

[Maddog]

Thanks for looking into it, but my contention remains that altitude hold is altitude hold, and the literature says maintains altitude while in FLY:MANUAL mode. The drag coefficient and downward force of the air is what the altitude hold is supposed to compensate for, as it had, on all the other flights. So a 5 foot drop is an understandable height loss IMO and would be acceptable, but not 40 feet in a second. Otherwise the altitude hold should be based on speed and the resulting pitch, and that's not how they describe it and not how it has worked in the past. I do appreciate the assistance, I'll see what they say at 3dr.

I was under the impression you were flying manually in a mode without altitude hold. If you were in fly: manual, you are correct- Solo should maintain altitude. I'm not familiar enough with it to know if there are limitations to how well it holds altitude- if there are they should be noted.

Apologies for not clarifying that first- didn't intend to sound like you were flying recklessly.

 

[Jubalr]

Thanks for looking into it, but my contention remains that altitude hold is altitude hold, and the literature says maintains altitude while in FLY:MANUAL mode. The drag coefficient and downward force of the air is what the altitude hold is supposed to compensate for, as it had, on all the other flights. So a 5 foot drop is an understandable height loss IMO and would be acceptable, but not 40 feet in a second. Otherwise the altitude hold should be based on speed and the resulting pitch, and that's not how they describe it and not how it has worked in the past. I do appreciate the assistance, I'll see what they say at 3dr.

Please note that my reply you quoted was not to you in regards to your flight. It was just a reply to Acroduster. That's why I quoted him.

 

[Odogster]

Please note that my reply you quoted was not to you in regards to your flight. It was just a reply to Acroduster. That's why I quoted him.

For sure I know what you meant, that other thread was really informative for me, wonder what 3dr will say. I sent in pics, logs, and video so just waiting now

 

[Maddog]

I just found this thread on altitude loss caused by fast forward flight- it might help figure this out:
Altitude loss after fast forward flight | 3D Robotics Drone Forum

 

[Ryan35]

your video is set to private but by the looks of it I have had a similar problem in the past in manual when you fly it descends almost downward in the direction your flying which is why mine had a very lucky little bump but nothing bad at all happened so for now flying slower is probably a good option until you are prepared to pull back to slow down the drone. I have been flying in manual a lot recently to get used to it and the main thing is if your in manual it will go at a constant speed in that direction your going so you can't just pause or let go of the controller if something is in the way because unlike GPS mode it will keep going until you tell it to hence the manual mode but you should probably take the info from someone who can open your files and video. Does anyone know how to open and view tlog files on a mac without bootcamp

 

[Odogster]

Yes it's an unfortunate situation, my main gripe is that I fly in manual mode all the time and have flown that way many times since and yes, it does lose some altitude but it is usually pretty easy to compensate for. With this specific instance though it just fell straight down and lost around 40 feet in a couple seconds. I have been unable to duplicate and it seems that it is a barometer misreading issue. 3dr has done nothing to help me, and after backorder issues, false claims, inaccurate inventory, and now the refusal to take responsibility and honor the warranty, myself and a group of people are going to join forces and seek legal remedy. Hence the private video. It even verbalizes "altitude hold" in tower when switching to fly manual but it sporadically loses altitude and the event in question was just ridiculous. I don't cut off my nose to spite my face though so i purchased a new shell and one engine pod and just finished rebuilding the Solo. As for the trashed gimbal and broken Gopro....

 

[Odogster]

Sad to say but I knew from the onset, regardless of the issue, 3dr was not going to honor the warranty as the first communication from them was this:

Hello Orin,

Thank you for contact 3D Robotics,

The Manual Mode, is not supposed to maintained altitude, Please see the pictures attached!

Regarding to the crash, we will need indeed to check the logs to make sure what happened, Using the App you need to connect to the sololink with the controller on
go to support, then contact us and log a trouble ticket so we can receive here the logs, I will attach a different way to retrieve them on your computer in case that you have problems with your app,

Thank you and have a good day

Luis L.
3DR Technical Support
Supporting you 24/7
(858)225-1414
(855) 982-2898

It is obvious they are trained to turn down claims as before they even saw a log file they were trying to absolve themselves of responsibility by using misinformation. It then became a discussion on the semantics of the word drift I attached the image that was sent in the email as well.

 

[Maddog]

Sad to say but I knew from the onset, regardless of the issue, 3dr was not going to honor the warranty as the first communication from them was this:

Hello Orin,

Thank you for contact 3D Robotics,

The Manual Mode, is not supposed to maintained altitude, Please see the pictures attached!

Regarding to the crash, we will need indeed to check the logs to make sure what happened, Using the App you need to connect to the sololink with the controller on
go to support, then contact us and log a trouble ticket so we can receive here the logs, I will attach a different way to retrieve them on your computer in case that you have problems with your app,

Thank you and have a good day

Luis L.
3DR Technical Support
Supporting you 24/7
(858)225-1414
(855) 982-2898

It is obvious they are trained to turn down claims as before they even saw a log file they were trying to absolve themselves of responsibility by using misinformation. It then became a discussion on the semantics of the word drift I attached the image that was sent in the email as well.

This is confusing- what they sent you states that in FLY:MANUAL, Solo will drift but it will maintain altitude. Isn't that what you were flying in?

The comment in the email that Solo doesn't maintain altitude in Manual is contradicted by the portion of the owners manual they sent you.

 

[Maddog]

Odogster- I don't know if you read the thread I posted the link to, but the gist of it is that fast forward flight can cause Solo's barometer to think it is higher than it actually is. This causes a Solo to descend to try to maintain a constant altitude and is especially noticeable when stopping rapidly.

I know the stopping part doesn't apply to you but maybe the rest does.

 

[Odogster]

Odogster- I don't know if you read the thread I posted the link to, but the gist of it is that fast forward flight can cause Solo's barometer to think it is higher than it actually is. This causes a Solo to descend to try to maintain a constant altitude and is especially noticeable when stopping rapidly.

I know the stopping part doesn't apply to you but maybe the rest does.

HI Maddog,

I did see your post and it seems like you hit the nail on the head, it has come to a stalemate, I was just showing you that email to exemplify the fact that it seems they had almost made up their mind before I even told them what happened. Either way I am back in the air again as I bought an empty shell and rebuilt the thing. Thanks for all the input! I should get my wifi upgrade card and fpvlr setup this week so I'll just have top live with the decision.

 

[Maddog]

HI Maddog,

I did see your post and it seems like you hit the nail on the head, it has come to a stalemate, I was just showing you that email to exemplify the fact that it seems they had almost made up their mind before I even told them what happened. Either way I am back in the air again as I bought an empty shell and rebuilt the thing. Thanks for all the input! I should gerry my wifi upgrade card and fpvlr setup this week so I'll just have top live with the decision.

I understand what you're saying- sorry about their decision.