Gimbal Not Centered

SurfnSkate81 · Jan 19, 2016

Getting a straight answer out of 3DR seems to be near impossible.

Would be good to know so we can all stop guessing.

I spent a whole f@%king week of my holiday farting around with this, just thinking about that wasted time makes me angry.

Lance · Jan 19, 2016

I hear you SurfnSkate81. I spent hours troubleshooting this issue as well as a couple others. After convincing 3DR the problem lies within the gimbal, they agreed to replace, repair or refurbish. Here's the thing.....I'm leaving for vacation and was hoping to use my Solo for some nice photography. 3DR wants me to FedEx my gimbal to them so they can either repair, replace or exchange for a refurbished gimbal. They will not let me return it to the distributor so I can exchange for new. So, the time I spent troubleshooting a defective and expensive 3DR component means nothing. There are countless people with the same issues so it's not like my gimbal is one bad out of hundreds. It's a well known issue and 3DR needs to come clean and do the right thing. The main reason I decided to go with 3DR before the Phantom was their claim for support and customer satisfaction. Not that it matters but in the packing instructions, they require the screwdriver, the counterweights and the foam packing stabilizer in the same box or they will not replace. I found that pretty petty and cheap but I'm about ready to drive the gimbal to Cali and shove the unit right up their poop hole. Not only are their products failing in the support department, so is their glitchy software. I'm not happy and if they don't pull up their socks, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and word of mouth will drastically impact their sales/profits. To say it nicely....they'd be smart to keep me happy. Time will tell.

SurfnSkate81 · Jan 19, 2016

Lance said:
I hear you SurfnSkate81. I spent hours troubleshooting this issue as well as a couple others. After convincing 3DR the problem lies within the gimbal, they agreed to replace, repair or refurbish. Here's the thing.....I'm leaving for vacation and was hoping to use my Solo for some nice photography. 3DR wants me to FedEx my gimbal to them so they can either repair, replace or exchange for a refurbished gimbal. They will not let me return it to the distributor so I can exchange for new. So, the time I spent troubleshooting a defective and expensive 3DR component means nothing. There are countless people with the same issues so it's not like my gimbal is one bad out of hundreds. It's a well known issue and 3DR needs to come clean and do the right thing. The main reason I decided to go with 3DR before the Phantom was their claim for support and customer satisfaction. Not that it matters but in the packing instructions, they require the screwdriver, the counterweights and the foam packing stabilizer in the same box or they will not replace. I found that pretty petty and cheap but I'm about ready to drive the gimbal to Cali and shove the unit right up their poop hole. Not only are their products failing in the support department, so is their glitchy software. I'm not happy and if they don't pull up their socks, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and word of mouth will drastically impact their sales/profits. To say it nicely....they'd be smart to keep me happy. Time will tell.

They asked for the gimbal accessories back? That's a f-ing joke.

I'm starting to regret my purchase at such an early stage in the products lifecycle, but I was wowed by the marketing spin. Whoever did the marketing I wish I could afford them for my business, they certainly sucked us all in.

And I know 3DR has been getting kudos for doing support better than the white guys, but giving you a refurbished replacement is a kick in the pants.

I hope you get things sorted, let us all know how you go.

Joe Horn · Jan 19, 2016

Ian [P13] said:
I've never seen any video of there being an issue in flight.

Ok, here's one, albeit a minor eccentricity. The big orange balloon is the target, but it's always slightly to the left of center. It's kinda annoying since it makes nice framing of an orbit shot impossible.

Ian [P13] · Jan 19, 2016

Joe Horn said:
Ok, here's one, albeit a minor eccentricity. The big orange balloon is the target, but it's always slightly to the left of center. It's kinda annoying since it makes nice framing of an orbit shot impossible.

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That's not a gimbal issue as you've not even got it centred when you've started that move. You can see from your own live view if you've got a shot framed correctly before you start it.

If you'd started that move off with the target centrally framed and the Solo had drifted off that, then there could be an issue, but the Solo has kept a consistent framing from where you started it.

Joe Horn · Jan 19, 2016

Ian [P13] said:
That's not a gimbal issue as you've not even got it centred when you've started that move. You can see from your own live view if you've got a shot framed correctly before you start it.

If you'd started that move off with the target centrally framed and the Solo had drifted off that, then there could be an issue, but the Solo has kept a consistent framing from where you started it.

I don't think that's true, and here's my reasoning. When the intended target of an orbit shot is not actually at Solo's target point, you'll see it move from left to right and back again (across the screen) as Solo orbits, since Solo is actually orbiting around a point next to the intended target. That's how you can tell that you didn't set the target where you intended to set it. But as you can see in my video, everything is cleanly rotating around the balloon which stays in exactly the same place onscreen throughout the entire 360-degree orbit.

If you're saying that the target can be filmed off-center by framing it that way before beginning an orbit shot, that's simply not correct. Solo always aims directly at the target during an orbit shot, regardless of where it was aimed before the orbit shot was initiated. The first thing it does when you begin an orbit shot is aim Solo directly at the target. Its previous "framing" is irrelevant.

You can easily prove me wrong by sharing an orbit video whose target is near the left or right edge of the screen, and stays there throughout the entire orbit. I don't believe that you can make such a video... unless you have a gimbal even more eccentric than mine. Of course, I'm still learning, so I'll be happy to learn by being proven wrong.

Ian [P13] · Jan 19, 2016

The balloon is framed wrong from the beginning. You should have moved the Solo so it was shown central before starting the orbit. I've marked the actual centre on the frame.

Orbit can be fairly tricky to get framed correctly but here you can see you're orbiting a point right of the balloon.

SurfnSkate81 · Jan 19, 2016

WTF is that orange ballon for anyway?

Lance · Jan 19, 2016

And for the love of God, the music lol. Painful video to watch

Ian [P13] · Jan 19, 2016

This orbit is arguably a tiny bit to the left, but close enough to central to show it does work:

Lance · Jan 19, 2016

Ian [P13] said:
This orbit is arguably a tiny bit to the left, but close enough to central to show it does work:

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Is this not a 3DR Solo produced video from one of their advertisement clips.

Ian [P13] · Jan 19, 2016

Lance said:
Is this not a 3DR Solo produced video from one of their advertisement clips.

No it's a normal everyday user clip.

User Name · Jan 19, 2016

Joe Horn said:
I don't think that's true, and here's my reasoning. When the intended target of an orbit shot is not actually at Solo's target point, you'll see it move from left to right and back again

This is absolutely correct. If you have to set your orbit point offset from the intended subject to frame the subject in the center of the rotated camera, the subject will trace out a circle as Solo orbits the offset orbit point. Your video demonstrated very clearly that the subject stayed virtually still in the frame throughout the orbit, with it being offset from the camera frame simply because of the rotation of the camera.

Here's a quick demonstration of the issue I threw together in a 3D program.

If Ian says it's specifically in the code to rotate the gimbal to get the legs out of the frame, I'm not in a position to argue that point, but if that is the case, either there is no function to compensate for the discrepancy between where the orbit point is set and where the camera is pointing, or there is such a function but it's not working.

What's clear is that you can not orbit a point that's offset from the subject while keeping the subject in one place.

Previously it was said that Solo orients itself based on the camera rotation. Now it's said that you need to offset the orbit point to compensate for the offset camera. This screen-capture demonstrates that can't be the case, and your video demonstrates that Solo isn't orienting itself based on the camera.

Clearly there's an issue here.

User Name · Jan 19, 2016

Ian [P13] said:
The balloon is framed wrong from the beginning. You should have moved the Solo so it was shown central before starting the orbit. I've marked the actual centre on the frame

He probable did. Any time I've tried to center something in an orbit, I've moved Solo to the desired distance, rotated to frame the subject in the center of the camera, and placed the orbit point. As soon as the point is set, Solo yaws to orient it's body to the orbit point, moving the subject off-center. There's no way to subsequently reframe the subject, and my screen capture demonstrates you can't orbit an offset point and keep a subject stationary.

Ian [P13] · Jan 19, 2016

I'm told a good way to get an accurate orbit is fly above the object you want to orbit set the orbit then increase the radius.

Joe Horn · Jan 19, 2016

Ian [P13] said:
The balloon is framed wrong from the beginning. You should have moved the Solo so it was shown central before starting the orbit. I've marked the actual centre on the frame.

Orbit can be fairly tricky to get framed correctly but here you can see you're orbiting a point right of the balloon.

View attachment 2338

That's totally wrong, for 2 reasons.

(1) You say I'm orbiting a point to the right of the balloon. But points being orbited remain relatively stationary while all the surrounding points rotate around it (like the stars around the North Star, etc.). If what you said were true, then you'd be able to clearly see the point (in the grass or on the ground) around which all the surrounding points are rotating as the video progresses. But there is no such point; EVERYTHING is moving EXCEPT the balloon. So that's clearly the center of the orbit.

(2) You seem to believe that framing that's done before an orbit shot is run will control the framing during the orbit shot. But that's not true. As explained before, any framing that you do BEFORE an orbit shot is run gets totally replaced by the orbit shot's automatic framing, which is ALWAYS supposed to put the target dead center in the screen. So even if I had done exactly what you say I should have done (and probably in fact did do, out of habit), it wouldn't matter.

Try it: set up any orbit shot on any subject, and then before you start it running, frame the subject off center. Then run the orbit shot. You'll see what I mean; Solo will ignore your framing, swing the target to dead center, and then begin orbiting. Therefore your claim that "orbit can be fairly tricky to get framed correctly" is 180 degrees out of phase with reality. Orbit shots are supposed to be IMPOSSIBLE NOT to get framed correctly (unless you set the target wrong, but that's not the issue here).

Still awaiting a video counterexample.

Ian [P13] · Jan 19, 2016

Your YouTube video shows you're not orbiting the balloon from the start, fact.

There's a user video above which is fine around the clock tower and I've explained one procedure for getting a correct orbit.

I never said Solo orbits by framing, I said the framing at the start of your YouTube video proves the balloon wasn't the centre of the orbit.

User Name · Jan 19, 2016

Ian [P13] said:
I'm told a good way to get an accurate orbit is fly above the object you want to orbit set the orbit then increase the radius.

I've tried that too, but the issue remains - Solo seems to orient it's body towards the orbit point, not the camera.

And just to be clear, this effects all flight modes, not just orbits or other smart shots - if the gimbal is offset, when I fly forward, the video I get is looking to the side. When I fly forward, Solo is moving forward, it's not crabbing to the left to compensate for the camera pointing to the right. It's just most pronounced in orbits because they specifically focus on framing a subject front and center throughout the entire move.

As Joe suggested, set up an orbit and intentionally offset the camera to frame a subject adjacent to the orbit point. Once the orbit point NOT on the subject is set, Solo will rotate itself to face the orbit point. Solo does not compensate for framing during orbits - it orients it's body to the orbit point. That's a fact.

It's also a fact that you can't orbit a point adjacent to an intended subject while keeping the subject stationary. Where you marked Joe's video, you did not mark the center. Play the video and hover your mouse over what you say is the center - the ground moved below. You can't have a moving center. The balloon is stationary throughout, clearly indicating that IT is the center of the orbit. The reason it's not the center of the frame... is because the camera is pointing away from the center of the orbit.

User Name · Jan 19, 2016

Ian [P13] said:
Your YouTube video shows you're not orbiting the balloon from the start, fact.

You're simply wrong here. The balloon does not move throughout the video. His solo is orbiting with the balloon directly at the center. Play his video again and place your mouse over what you contend was his center point - the ground will continually move below with your mouse tracing out a circle around the balloon clearly proving that what you're saying is the center is not. You're simply picking the center of the video frame.

Compare it to the screen-record from my 3D program. When you orbit a subject with the orbit point ON the subject, it stays stationary in the frame, even if it's offset due to the camera pointing to one side. If you orbit a point offset from the subject, the subject will trace out a circle as the camera orbits.

Ian [P13] said:
There's a user video above which is fine around the clock tower and I've explained one procedure for getting a correct orbit.

Yes, and this was taken by someone who's gimbal is very close to centered, which proves nothing when we're talking about gimbals that are pointing 10+ degrees off center.

Ian [P13] · Jan 19, 2016

You're changing the goal posts now, since when was this conversation about gimbals 10 degrees off or more off? It never was.

If a gimbal is way off, do the level calibration and compass calibration to make sure the gimbal IMU and Solo's IMUs are in sync then retry. Then contract support. 10 degrees is a significant amount and doesn't tie in with typical examples. Unless of course you're plucking figures like 10 degrees out of thin air just to continue an argument.