Just What is the Real Issue with the Solo GPS?

[Jubalr]

Like a few others on here, I have never had a single issue with my Solo. Good GPS, fast acquisition even in areas with a lot of tree canopy. Always fly solid and does what it is told. Yet there are a lot of users that do have very bad issues with GPS like the OP here. So what can be the difference? There is no doubt the parts are the same, so that points mostly to Quality Control. But at what point? Are the actual GPS modules bad or vary in sensitivity from 1 to the next? Some have noted that their GPS issue got better after the update, others say it made it worse. Again, what is the difference? Is the M8n the answer for those with problems, or could they simply get one of the 'Good' stock GPS modules? Thoughts? If we could determine the variable, it would sure help a lot of people.
Ran across this video that shows one example of someone with a 'Good' GPS receiver?

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[Earldgrayjr]

Personally, I think it is a metal spring in front of the sensor, and exactly where it is determines the difference. Had a problem. Sent it in. They took it apart, but dint swap anything. Works fine now. If I did have problems, I would open it up and move it a tiny bit.

That said, there is a fix that swaps the GPS chip for one that can also see GLONAS satellites, which doubles what is available and also gives you a powered antenna.

I don't have problems, but may do that after getting gimbal.

One change at a time...

 

[Ian [P13]]

The M8N is also more susceptible to noise, I know Philip Rowse who's the lead designer of the Pixhawk 2 is adamant it is not a wise update, he's 110% crystal clear on that, both in public and private.

The next firmware update has plenty of fixes in addressing a number of issues from logs people have sent in, so it's worth waiting for that. Given 3DR's past record, if there was a hardware cause found 3DR would sort a fix, most likely for free.

 

[Ian [P13]]

I should add one problem 3DR look to be having, is there are people on forums saying they're having GPS problems, but they're not sending in logs so it limits the evidence 3DR can go on.

So if you're having a GPS problem with your Solo send a ticket to support, tell them your location, time and date and the nature of your GPS problem (say for example the GPS lock is taking several minutes) and also tell them which model of GoPro your were using, that way they have plenty of information to go on.

 

[Jubalr]

I should add one problem 3DR look to be having, is there are people on forums saying they're having GPS problems, but they're not sending in logs so it limits the evidence 3DR can go on.

So if you're having a GPS problem with your Solo send a ticket to support, tell them your location, time and date and the nature of your GPS problem (say for example the GPS lock is taking several minutes) and also tell them which model of GoPro your were using, that way they have plenty of information to go on.

That makes sense and I would hope that people that are having an issue would be sure to send in the logs each time they have an issue. But there are probably many that read the forums and just think it's just how the Solo is, and sit there and wait or reboot and never send in the logs. And regardless of whether it is GPS or something else, send in the logs. 3DR can use them to continue with improvements.

 

[Jubalr]

The M8N is also more susceptible to noise, I know Philip Rowse who's the lead designer of the Pixhawk 2 is adamant it is not a wise update, he's 110% crystal clear on that, both in public and private.

The next firmware update has plenty of fixes in addressing a number of issues from logs people have sent in, so it's worth waiting for that. Given 3DR's past record, if there was a hardware cause found 3DR would sort a fix, most likely for free.

Ian, I too am skeptical on replacing the GPS module for something different. Only because there are some that have issues and some that don't. Do you have an opinion on a possible variable from one machine to the next?

 

[Earldgrayjr]

I should add one problem 3DR look to be having, is there are people on forums saying they're having GPS problems, but they're not sending in logs so it limits the evidence 3DR can go on.

So if you're having a GPS problem with your Solo send a ticket to support, tell them your location, time and date and the nature of your GPS problem (say for example the GPS lock is taking several minutes) and also tell them which model of GoPro your were using, that way they have plenty of information to go on.

Good points.... Ian, what do you think is the culprit(s)?

 

[Ian [P13]]

It's tricky as people are comparing their P3s or Inspires using the M8N, the Neo-7N using just GPS is always going to take longer to lock. Some people still assume their GPS is coming from above their heads so don't take account of vertical obstructions with their chosen take off location.

If you take the first firmware, it transpired the ublox could fail to initialise properly, every so often, it was estimated potentially one in five times, that was fixed in the 1.05 update, but it goes to show some issues put down as being hardware, aren't.

3DR take every error report seriously, so they've already improved the code to tackle the problem where people were having flips and the motors weren't cutting out, they're actively looking at complaints on range and GPS from what I can gather, albeit I don't get the impression GPS is getting all that many complaints, hence if people are having trouble, they need to report it.

 

[Earldgrayjr]

It's tricky as people are comparing their P3s or Inspires using the M8N, the Neo-7N using just GPS is always going to take longer to lock. Some people still assume their GPS is coming from above their heads so don't take account of vertical obstructions with their chosen take off location.

If you take the first firmware, it transpired the ublox could fail to initialise properly, every so often, it was estimated potentially one in five times, that was fixed in the 1.05 update, but it goes to show some issues put down as being hardware, aren't.

3DR take every error report seriously, so they've already improved the code to tackle the problem where people were having flips and the motors weren't cutting out, they're actively looking at complaints on range and GPS from what I can gather, albeit I don't get the impression GPS is getting all that many complaints, hence if people are having trouble, they need to report it.

So if the M8N can use more sats (via GLONASS) and lock faster, what is the gist of whay not to use it? i.e the interference issues? How do they manifest in the P3 etc?

 

[Ian [P13]]

The M8N can SEE more satellites, there's debate over how effectively those are used.

The P3 doesn't have smart shots so would anyone really notice if the M8N was keeping a good, repeatable lock in the air anyway? Would DJI have tested the GPS around the globe or just at their own R&D facility? I don't know the answers to those.

What I do know is the 3DR guys say they tested the 7 and 8 in the Solo, tested it in the US, EU and Australia and found the difference between the two was negligible. Meanwhile there was concern about the noise a wideband antenna picks up.

Philip Rowse has covered this topic a number of times on the Solo user group Facebook page so that's the best place to go over 3DR's view on this particular debate.

 

[Earldgrayjr]

The M8N can SEE more satellites, there's debate over how effectively those are used.

The P3 doesn't have smart shots so would anyone really notice if the M8N was keeping a good, repeatable lock in the air anyway? Would DJI have tested the GPS around the globe or just at their own R&D facility? I don't know the answers to those.

What I do know is the 3DR guys say they tested the 7 and 8 in the Solo, tested it in the US, EU and Australia and found the difference between the two was negligible. Meanwhile there was concern about the noise a wideband antenna picks up.

Philip Rowse has covered this topic a number of times on the Solo user group Facebook page so that's the best place to go over 3DR's view on this particular debate.

Thanks

 

[Walter]

Like a few others on here, I have never had a single issue with my Solo. Good GPS, fast acquisition even in areas with a lot of tree canopy. Always fly solid and does what it is told. Yet there are a lot of users that do have very bad issues with GPS like the OP here. So what can be the difference? There is no doubt the parts are the same, so that points mostly to Quality Control. But at what point? Are the actual GPS modules bad or vary in sensitivity from 1 to the next? Some have noted that their GPS issue got better after the update, others say it made it worse. Again, what is the difference? Is the M8n the answer for those with problems, or could they simply get one of the 'Good' stock GPS modules? Thoughts? If we could determine the variable, it would sure help a lot of people.
Ran across this video that shows one example of someone with a 'Good' GPS receiver?

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After all I've been reading my opinion is some folks got "Bad Birds". All the experts are trying to out think 3DR and come up with fixes that are probably unnecessary. I have 2 Solo's and they fly exactly as advertised. No GPS problems over lakes, over rivers, over power stations, construction sites, down in trenches, over swimming pools, trees, hills, mountains, Etc., Etc. This launch is no different than any other tech. item in the world. I do believe there are glitches and they will be fixed over time by 3DR. Swapping out components on an integrated air frame designed by some pretty smart people does not seem reasonable to me at this stage of Solo's development. If my Corvette isn't running quite right, I really never think of getting under the hood and swapping out components because Chevy must have screwed something up. Solo is the future. Nothing else out there compares. I'm going to give the more time to figure things out and not second guess them. Just the thoughts of someone with not one problem with my Solo's.

 

[DodgeP]

I haven't had GPS issues ever. The other annoyances I've experienced have been minimal; in my opinion.

 

[RikMiddle]

I'm starting to think I've been drinking the GPS Glitch kool aid ..

Yah know you take off near a Metal building under some trees , it quits GPS you get disoriented, brake a half dozen props and..

"Can't b my fault" Damn GPS problem...

Every time I fly in an open area.. Flawless..

I'm sure there are legit GPS problems.. Just in my case..
Think I've been drinking the koolaid...

Anybody seen my gimbal?

 

[Raybro]

Can't say I have had a real GPS problem either. It has taken a few minutes to get a lock lately, the past couple of weeks anyway.
It used to take under a minute. Maybe the heat has an affect. We've been hitting close to 100 every day for over a week now.
As soon as I get in the air it obtains several more Sats right away.
Maybe I'll hold off on the u-blox for now.

 

[rrmccabe]

I have never felt I had issues either although it flipped over on landing once. No big deal. Could have been pilot error. I submitted logs just to see how it worked and to provide them with data.

They responded with "GPS glitch, upgrade to new firmware and we will send you new props".

Unfortunately it was new firmware. But honestly I thought my GPS was good. Slow, but good.

 

[Raybro]

Like a few others on here, I have never had a single issue with my Solo. Good GPS, fast acquisition even in areas with a lot of tree canopy. Always fly solid and does what it is told. Yet there are a lot of users that do have very bad issues with GPS like the OP here. So what can be the difference? There is no doubt the parts are the same, so that points mostly to Quality Control. But at what point? Are the actual GPS modules bad or vary in sensitivity from 1 to the next? Some have noted that their GPS issue got better after the update, others say it made it worse. Again, what is the difference? Is the M8n the answer for those with problems, or could they simply get one of the 'Good' stock GPS modules? Thoughts? If we could determine the variable, it would sure help a lot of people.
Ran across this video that shows one example of someone with a 'Good' GPS receiver?

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

The M8N can SEE more satellites, there's debate over how effectively those are used.

The P3 doesn't have smart shots so would anyone really notice if the M8N was keeping a good, repeatable lock in the air anyway? Would DJI have tested the GPS around the globe or just at their own R&D facility? I don't know the answers to those.

What I do know is the 3DR guys say they tested the 7 and 8 in the Solo, tested it in the US, EU and Australia and found the difference between the two was negligible. Meanwhile there was concern about the noise a wideband antenna picks up.

Philip Rowse has covered this topic a number of times on the Solo user group Facebook page so that's the best place to go over 3DR's view on this particular debate.

That's some good info guys. I was looking around last night....$80 to $90 for the U-blox and it doesn't even fit properly. I may do as the video shows and take a look around inside, check screws and connectors for grins.
So the bottom line is, you may show more satellites but it may not even be using them.

 

[SteveMyers75]

I’m sure the Solo I had contained a faulty GPS Module.
It took over 2 minutes to ARM every battery change, even if I didn’t move it more than a few feet.
Most likely it had either a bad battery or some other cache problem.

When I put in a M8N, it was instantaneous lock on battery swaps, like what a lot of you are saying you already had with your Solos out-of-the-box.

Even still, I most likely would have pulled the stock module anyways.
It wasn’t the number of SATs I was after, as more != better.
It was lower PDOP. I never saw low numbers with the 7N that I saw with the M8N.

During the testing phases, the M8N was RTL within a 3’ radius all day.
The 7N was more like 10’ radius. (again, mine had issues)

Regardless, using the analogy of the Corvette above, the first thing I do with any new toy is pull it apart and swap out things. On Motorcycles its ride it home, strip it down to the frame and start chroming and upgrading the Exhaust and Electronics and whatever to what I like. (I always know which one is mine at a rally).
With cars it’s Headers/SST Exhaust, Re-Programmed ECM/Transmission Modules maybe a suspension mod or two… and always pull the stock rims and preserve them for resell day.

If you’re fine with the way the Solo works out-of-the-box, great!
This hobby is a lot less expensive for you!

But it’s also just as great that there are those that are never satisfied with stock and want to tweak our toys and add features that we think the manufacturer missed on, like Auto switching Active/Passive antennas, simultaneous GPS/GLONASS/Galileo/BeiDou capabilities (M8N required), extra capacity batteries, balanced Carbon Fiber Props ….who knows what someone will think of next - we’re just getting started!

Even better with Solo is Open Source Firmware! Some of us are not satisfied with the stock Firmware and are already making custom tweaks to that too. (Although it would have been nice if the 3DR fork of ardupilot/ArduCopter had better instructions on setting up the compiler for it... they used an outdated toolchain and you have to regress to it to get it to compile 100%)

The Solo is an Open Source platform inside and out, and to the modifiers/tweakers out there Solo out-of-the-box is just a great starting point. (or it will be when the Gimbal is released..)

 

[bill wykle]

I am happy to say also that I have experienced no problems at all with the Solo.

The only complaint I would have would be range, but just starting to get comfortable flying over 1600'. Think my longets journey has been about 1900', but usually start having signal issues around 1600', but thankfully the unit returns to home. Not really sure what people do flying out this far other than to see exactly how far the unit can go like me

 

[ken nielsen]

Personally, I think it is a metal spring in front of the sensor, and exactly where it is determines the difference. Had a problem. Sent it in. They took it apart, but dint swap anything. Works fine now. If I did have problems, I would open it up and move it a tiny bit.

That said, there is a fix that swaps the GPS chip for one that can also see GLONAS satellites, which doubles what is available and also gives you a powered antenna.

I don't have problems, but may do that after getting gimbal.

One change at a time...

My Yuneec Q5004K has the GLONAS and I'm getting a rock solid 17-20 sats on the Quad every time I power up and I'm launch from two or three different locations every day. Also getting 11-15 Sats on the controller ( for follow me and watch me functions)