Follow Me at high speed - SOLVED

[Jubalr]

Thanks for the vids and info, I'm gonna try messing with the nav speed and find a good stable max speed. Looks like the default is 1100 cm/s, or 25 mph which is exactly where mine had maxed out before. The Follow is definitely more accurate and quick to respond than my P3... but they shouldn't be advertising Follow at 55 mph like they are.

I looked into the Typhoon H and they say it only does 22 mph?

Does the 3dr marketing say follow at 55 or that the max speed of Solo is 55. Because they are 2 different things. A sports car may have a top speed of 160, but it doesn't mean you can set the cruise control that high.

 

[Brettt]

The FAQ's currently say:

Solo's top speed is 55 mph; when 'Follow' is activated, can Solo follow you at that speed?

Yes, depending on the environment.

As far as the "top speed" of 55 mph, it seems people have only ever gotten to 55 in a dive or with a strong tailwind; I don't really think that counts. But maybe the right "environment" refers to hacking the nav speed in Tower then going down a steep mountain with a tailwind, and probably crashing.

 

[Jubalr]

The FAQ's currently say:

Solo's top speed is 55 mph; when 'Follow' is activated, can Solo follow you at that speed?

Yes, depending on the environment.

As far as the "top speed" of 55 mph, it seems people have only ever gotten to 55 in a dive or with a strong tailwind; I don't really think that counts. But maybe the right "environment" refers to hacking the nav speed in Tower then going down a steep mountain with a tailwind, and probably crashing.

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[Brettt]

3DR plant?

I really didn't want to get so deep into this argument, but the Phantom 4 has gotten to 60 mph (or higher) in special cases, but they still advertise 45 mph (sport) because that's the max without wind, and they admit that it's slower in GPS and Follow modes. The Solo does not go 55 mph in Follow, it's a blatant lie and it's specifically set to be limited to 25 mph. I e-mailed them and they apologized for the out-of-date FAQ's; they originally "wanted" it to be 55. Really? The FAQ's are based on what they wanted it to do years ago before they actually made it? I doubt it will ever change cause it helps sell Solos.

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[Vegasrobbi]

Well when it comes to top speed I think there are a lot of variables - temperature, altitude, prevailing winds, operator exaggeration, etc.. I have seen videos of I1's topping 80 mph with 30 mph tailwinds.

To be realistic I think somewhere between 35-40 mph is the fastest usable Follow speed we are going to see with our Solo's and Phantoms. This means stable gimbal footage, motors not being overworked to failure, amperage draw kept a reasonable level...

Yuneec does list the Typhoon H Follow speed at 43 mph, faster than the angle mode speed. Seems odd but I will find out shortly if this is true. And I think all the manufacturers take liberties with marketing, not just 3DR. Just because a P4 can fly 50 mph does not mean it will deliver solid video at that speed like if it were going 1/2 that speed.

 

[Brettt]

Update: Finally tried modifying the nav speed myself. Had good luck with 1500 cm/s (33.5 mph). Also tried 1700 cm/s (38 mph). Was pretty successful but dangerous. With leash when I actually got it up to that speed it started to lose altitude so I kept a close eye on it. Once I stopped it would stabilize, but looking over the footage I was closer to a crash than I realized at the time. Follow may not have the same issue, it seemed to lose its lead rather than drop (had it in front of me), but I'll have to test more to be sure. 1500 cm/s is probably safest, or higher if you pay close attention. It likely depends on wind conditions too. The obvious solution for 3DR would be to prioritize altitude over horizontal speed (which may be the case for Follow already).

I'll definitely praise the Solo's Follow AI over the Phantom's, which was never that great and has now been completely broken with the latest firmware update.

Side note: When I uploaded the settings in Tower they would not be saved the next time I started the Solo, and I had to redo it every time. I think someone here had said it should save.

 

[Pedals2Paddles]

The sliders in the app override numerous parameters you can change in Tower. At what point they execute that overwrite, I'm not sure. These are the solo's full rabbit and minimum turtle parameters. The Waypoint Nav Speed parameter is not one of them, because it doesn't change with the turtle and rabbit sliders. But it does change based on many other things you can do with the smart shots and surveys. I'd be willing to bet it is overwritten with a default, if nothing else, just as a CYA.

 

[RichWest]

The obvious solution for 3DR would be to prioritize altitude over horizontal speed (which may be the case for Follow already).

Supposedly when EKF2 gets fully implemented this issue will be resolved or at least vastly improved. Beyond that, the really-really smart guys are working on the solution. I'm not one of those people, just repeating what I've read....else where.

 

[nvpowerdoc]

Here's my Follow-Me mode video. We did a lot of swerving and turns in the dunes. Speeds probably not much over 30MPH in these shots.

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The second video (which was actually shot first) is from higher up and further back. The Solo followed a bit more smoothly, and the speeds were notably faster (35-40MPH) in some shots.
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My impression is that the "Follow Me - Leash" mode worked pretty well except for general Altitude control for terrain following. Did not have the issue of loss of altitude due to speed (and the crash at the end of the first video was due to the fact the elevation of the dunes increased). Another contributing factor is that I was flying somewhat blind because my video constantly drops-out. Sending Solo back to 3DR on an RMA for a continual video loss / lock-up. Hopefully, the replacement unit will work better.

Question, does anyone know if using Follow-Me Leash on an iPhone 6S (Plus) will perform altitude correction? I know it doesn't work on Android even though the Samsung Galaxy 5S has a barometer sensor (what I used in the posted videos).

I might dig out Dashware and overlay the Solo performance stats on the video. That would give the best indication of performance.

 

[fpvsteve]

Question, does anyone know if using Follow-Me Leash on an iPhone 6S (Plus) will perform altitude correction? I know it doesn't work on Android even though the Samsung Galaxy 5S has a barometer sensor (what I used in the posted videos).

I might dig out Dashware and overlay the Solo performance stats on the video. That would give the best indication of performance.

Very nice video!
To your question, yes altitude FollowMe works fine with the iPhone6/6s. Not supported on Android. The upcoming 2.4 release will also include some improvements in the sensitivity of the altitude follow.

 

[Vegasrobbi]

Also

Very nice video!
To your question, yes altitude FollowMe works fine with the iPhone6/6s. Not supported on Android. The upcoming 2.4 release will also include some improvements in the sensitivity of the altitude follow.

Also works with the Mini 4.

 

[SPP]

NV,
This is one of the best if not the best follow-me I have seen. I mean in terms of the swerving or anything not in a straight line, to test the response of the solo. 1st video, the 3+ minute one, at 1:39 there was an edit , what happened there ?

Here I think it is obvious that image/camera type tracking like what Phantom 4 uses can not track subject to the extreme like Solo in this condition using GPS based tracking.

1st video 3+ minutes, Solo is closer to the buggy, hence tracking can't be as smooth as 2nd video 7+ minutes where the Solo is more distant, that is understandable.

Your video with lots of swerving got me thinking. Will it matter much, if our smartphone or tablet has GPS with update rate at 5hz instead of the common 1 hz ? If the buggy turn 90 degrees from mid center of camera field of view at say 25mph or 40 km/h, that is 11.1 meters per second (36.6 feet/sec ) of position change, that is a lot of change. Lag/latency of data transmission from GPS/smartphone to controller to Solo = X value, response of Solo autopilot = Y value. Solo's own GPS is update like 10hz speed.

If my calculation is correct, GP lens at 2.92mm ( peau production data ) and its 1/2.3" sensor nearest equivalent is a 1/3", using CCTV calculator like this one :
CCTV Camera Lens Field of View Calculator
we get field of view horizontal width of picture of only 61.6 feet end to end if Solo is 50 feet away from buggy. Note, end to end, so the mid center to end is only 30.8 feet.

At 1hz GPS update, our data is 1 second ago and add the lag/latency whatever the technical name is for wifi transmission and Solo autopilot calculation at say extra 0.2 seconds , we have 1.2 seconds old data.

If 1.2 seconds old data, the buggy has moved from camera field of view mid-point by 43.9 feet, I think Solo will have hard time tracking the buggy, if Solo is only 50 feet away.

If Solo is 100 feet away , horizontal field of view end to end is 123 feet, this would be not too bad.
This is a very good test you did NV, triggered me to think of the GPS update speed. Thank u

So now I know how much swerving vs Solo distance from subject I am allowed to do, if I ever need Follow Me feature to work reliably.
.

 

[fpvsteve]

@SPP update rate between the smartphone running the Solo app and Solo in FollowMe is approx. 2Hz. Limiting factor is the software, not your phone GPS

 

[SPP]

@SPP update rate between the smartphone running the Solo app and Solo in FollowMe is approx. 2Hz. Limiting factor is the software, not your phone GPS

Ohh, good to know, at least 2hz is better than 1hz. Many thanks man
So there could be room for faster update rate, if say 3DR willing to do it via firmware ?

 

[nvpowerdoc]

NV,
This is one of the best if not the best follow-me I have seen. I mean in terms of the swerving or anything not in a straight line, to test the response of the solo. 1st video, the 3+ minute one, at 1:39 there was an edit , what happened there ?

Man alive! I'm an Electronics Engineer and did not even take the time to figure out all of the FOVs at varying distances / speed / height based on GPS update rates. SPP is a super smart person and to take the time to do this!

At 1:39, I just cutout the boring part of the video (it was maybe only 30 seconds). I tried to keep the best action shots - sometimes posted videos can be boring and long. This was just a "hack-job" to get something up quick since the thread started on this topic and I had video from this past holiday weekend.

Our Duning groups' ultimate goal is to shoot video a bit more like this one (I shot this one with a DJI F450). In this one, I didn't have to luxury of framing the shots with goggles (video cable broke just as I was setting up to shoot), so I just guessed which way the copter was pointed and FLEW!

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Definitely going to use the iPhone 6S on the next flight in the dunes. Some of the elevation changes (at Dumont) can be 200 - 300 ft, just on one dune!

 

[nvpowerdoc]

NV,

If my calculation is correct, GP lens at 2.92mm ( peau production data ) and its 1/2.3" sensor nearest equivalent is a 1/3", using CCTV calculator like this one :
CCTV Camera Lens Field of View Calculator
we get field of view horizontal width of picture of only 61.6 feet end to end if Solo is 50 feet away from buggy. Note, end to end, so the mid center to end is only 30.8 feet.

BTW, both of the Solo videos were shot using Medium FOV on the GPH4. Standard lens.

 

[nvpowerdoc]

So these are the performance stats on the Solo.

If I read the MP log correctly, top speed is about 12M/S which corresponds to about 27MPH.

The Green Path on GE is the 7min portion of the video, the Purple Path is the 3+min video.

When I get time, I'll drop the performance stats on the video using dashware.

 

[SPP]

BTW, both of the Solo videos were shot using Medium FOV on the GPH4. Standard lens.

Nice to have an electrical engineer in the forum...awesome.

Aha, I see. More challenging for swerving catch-up then if MEDIUM FOV, but the fisheye much reduced.


PS
Awesome big truck you guys got and the sand dunes is just breathtaking !!

.

 

[SPP]

When I get time, I'll drop the performance stats on the video using dashware.

Great, thank u

ADD:
I am asking Bad Elf GPS guys, I got their Pro+ unit which has barometer and up to 10hz refresh rate.
Maybe this may help to make better catch-up for your kind of follow-me at 3hz setting. Its via bluetooth connection to Apple.

When I got their answer, I will ask 3DR Support on their 2hz update rate 101.

I need to ask Bad Elf to be sure, as Apple is a control freak and I can't even get my iPad Air 2 which has built in GPS to run GNSS Apps from Apple Store ....to take a peek at its GPS chip performance ...LOL.

Who knows, Apple may restrict refresh rate of 3rd party GPS bluetooth .

 

[Brettt]

Update: Wind is a big factor in whether or not the Solo will crash while following. I had a 10 mph northward wind. Set max speed in Tower to 1800 cm/s. When going south (against the wind), when I got past around 33 mph the Solo would rapidly lose altitude and I had to stop. When going north (with the wind), I could get up to 40 mph with no problem, and it would max out based on its speed limit of 40 mph (1800 cm/s). I suspect even with their built-in limit of 25 mph (1200 cm/s) the same rules would apply, and it could lose altitude if you had 15-20 mph winds against it.

Again, probably not great programming.