Deauthenticating a "Smart Drone" - (or why 3drobotics Solo should use ieee80211w=1)

[Solosm Art Drone]

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Anyone tried ieee80211w=1 in the hostap settings? I'd like to prevent casual *pranks* from being played on me during flight.
http://hackaday.com/2011/10/04/wifi-jamming-via-deauthentication-packets/

Switching hostap into 802.11w mode should remedy the potential issue. (I have not tested)
http://blog.airtightnetworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/802.11w-Tutorial1.pdf

Generally be aware that some commercial businesses have automated deauthentication to protect themselves from wifi intrusion. Aka you fly in the wrong place, you may get deauthed.

Let me stress... the ability to disconnect you from your Solo/Artoo via deauthentication attack has NOTHING to do with the strength of your password.

Marriot just got in trouble for using deauthentication technology maliciously for example: http://boingboing.net/2014/10/03/fcc-fines-marriott-for-jamming.html
http://boingboing.net/2014/12/31/marriott-hotels-plans-to-block.html

"the impact of deauthentication will not be as draconian as some commenters suggest" (trying to keep deauthentication legal)
http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=60001011981

Here is an example of the Cisco Enterprise wireless feature set called "Rogue AccessPoint Containment"
https://supportforums.cisco.com/document/143301/rogue-access-point-location-and-containment
This built-in detection, tagging, monitoring, and containment capability enables system administrators to take appropriate action:
Find rogue access points.
Receive new rogue access point notification, eliminating hallway scans.
Monitor unknown rogue access points until they are eliminated or acknowledged.
Find the closest authorized access point, making directed scans faster and more effective.
Contain rogue access points by sending their clients deauthenticate and disassociate messages from one to four access points. This containment is done for individual rogue access points by MAC address or is mandated for all rogue access points connected to the enterprise subnet.

http://www.theruckusroom.net/2010/08/when-wips-really-hurt.html
When WIPS (Wireless Intrusion Prevention) Really Hurts

Beyond that, PLENTY of idiots own Wifi Pineapple. ($99)
http://hakshop.myshopify.com/products/wifi-pineapple?variant=81044992

 

[Rich]

If Solo is never connected to another network, is this still an issue?

If yes, I'd suggest trying to demonstrate it to 3dr and then they can issue a fix in their next update.

 

[DodgeP]

This is good info. I'm not being a smart ass when I say this but; "Why don't you try it and let us know how it works out for you." If it's a success create a HowTo in the Help Section.

 

[Jubalr]

If Solo is never connected to another network, is this still an issue?

If yes, I'd suggest trying to demonstrate it to 3dr and then they can issue a fix in their next update.

Please don't encourage him..He is all over other forums with 'sky is falling' scenarios. It's classic possibility vs probability stuff. He also had a thread about the 'possibility' of someone hacking/guessing/bypassing your Solo PW and Taking Control of your Solo in the 12-20min time you are flying. Possible? Yes.. Probable? Not so much..

 

[Solosm Art Drone]

If Solo is never connected to another network, is this still an issue?

If yes, I'd suggest trying to demonstrate it to 3dr and then they can issue a fix in their next update.

This has nothing to do with what networks Solo connects to... this is an issue with the 802.11 spec that 3dr chose to use for their command link. Anyone with a cell phone or laptop can cause your Solo to go into RTL with minimal effort at any time they choose.

 

[Solosm Art Drone]

Please don't encourage him..He is all over other forums with 'sky is falling' scenarios. It's classic possibility vs probability stuff. He also had a thread about the 'possibility' of someone hacking/guessing/bypassing your Solo PW and Taking Control of your Solo in the 12-20min time you are flying. Possible? Yes.. Probable? Not so much..

Please don't downplay things you don't understand... Look it is real simple. SoloLink is marketed as "Secure", yet 3dr was not even smart enough to enable 802.11w support to prevent even the most basic of wifi attacks or "annoyances" if you wish to classify them as such.

It isn't my fault marketing chooses to use colorful words that they too don't understand.

 

[Jubalr]

Please don't downplay things you don't understand... Look it is real simple. SoloLink is marketed as "Secure", yet 3dr was not even smart enough to enable 802.11w support to prevent even the most basic of wifi attacks or "annoyances" if you wish to classify them as such.

It isn't my fault marketing chooses to use colorful words that they too don't understand.

'Secure' is interpretive and not definitive unless taken literally. In which case even your suggestions would not qualify (nor the pentagon's of Chase Bank) meaning it is more secure than an open network.

 

[Solosm Art Drone]

'Secure' is interpretive and not definitive unless taken literally. In which case even your suggestions would not qualify (nor the pentagon's of Chase Bank) meaning it is more secure than an open network.

Are we here to mince words, or are we here to come up with suggestions to make this "incrementally better" and at least put forth "best efforts" (like adding the 'w' flag to the config file)?

Seems you just want to be the yin to my yang and disagree / downplay anything said... have fun with it.

 

[Jubalr]

Are we here to mince words, or are we here to come up with suggestions to make this "incrementally better" and at least put forth "best efforts" (like adding the 'w' flag to the config file)?

Seems you just want to be the yin to my yang and disagree / downplay anything said... have fun with it.

K

 

[ALLA]

Are we here to mince words, or are we here to come up with suggestions to make this "incrementally better" and at least put forth "best efforts" (like adding the 'w' flag to the config file)?

Seems you just want to be the yin to my yang and disagree / downplay anything said... have fun with it.

If you are so concerned with making this a "safer" system for everyone, then why don't you add the flag and give it a try and report back to us? Better yet, how about you engage in a meaningful conversation with 3DR and let them know what you find, so that they can investigate and take your suggestions into account, where it matters. I mean, if you are truly interested in improving the status-quo of the 3DR wifi link, and in particular its resilience against malicious attacks, then that would be the appropriate thing to do, instead of the fear-mongering you keep engaging in here and in other forums. To me it seems all you do is trolling. If you are concerned, get in touch with 3DR; I am sure they will be very appreciative of your efforts.

 

[Rich]

I agree, please report this to 3DR, and give them your findings and provide them your test results.

This way if it's appropriate they can issue a change in the next release after testing and qualifying the change.

 

[Solosm Art Drone]

If you are so concerned with making this a "safer" system for everyone, then why don't you add the flag and give it a try and report back to us? Better yet, how about you engage in a meaningful conversation with 3DR and let them know what you find, so that they can investigate and take your suggestions into account, where it matters. I mean, if you are truly interested in improving the status-quo of the 3DR wifi link, and in particular its resilience against malicious attacks, then that would be the appropriate thing to do, instead of the fear-mongering you keep engaging in here and in other forums. To me it seems all you do is trolling. If you are concerned, get in touch with 3DR; I am sure they will be very appreciative of your efforts.

"then why don't you add the flag and give it a try and report back to us?"
Because I don't feel like tearing down yet another Solo this week to mess with the SD card in the event that an issue arises...

No one said I was "SUPER CONCERNED FOR EVERYONE!" I am simply sharing the information. I prefer that folks be informed to make their own decisions.

 

[GoodnNuff]

I think the very real threat is NOT someone trying to take control of my Solo, but losing control if flying in an area where a business has implemented deauthentication to knock users off their wifi, or prevent guests from using their own wifi hotspots, forcing them to use the company's (which is what Marriot did).

So no, If you are flying in a rural area or away from commercial businesses, the probablitiy is extremely slim, but if you are in an urban environment, I see this as a possible worry.

 

[Solosm Art Drone]

I agree, please report this to 3DR, and give them your findings and provide them your test results.

This way if it's appropriate they can issue a change in the next release after testing and qualifying the change.

I have found that 3dr often takes the same sort of attitude you folks here are... probability seems to make this a non issue. Why bother reporting it?

 

[Solo Joe]

I think the very real threat is NOT someone trying to take control of my Solo, but losing control if flying in an area where a business has implemented deauthentication to knock users off their wifi, or prevent guests from using their own wifi hotspots, forcing them to use the company's (which is what Marriot did).

So no, If you are flying in a rural area or away from commercial businesses, the probablitiy is extremely slim, but if you are in an urban environment, I see this as a possible worry.

As a wireless network engineer let me tell you, very FEW companies implement this. Yes there is a case of a couple here or there. But the odds you will fly over 1 is so tiny its a none issue. In fact most people would be appalled at the lack of security most Wireless networks have. These things cost money and while they sound great on paper, the cost to implement tends to steer people away when its all said and done.

 

[Jubalr]

As a wireless network engineer let me tell you, very FEW companies implement this. Yes there is a case of a couple here or there. But the odds you will fly over 1 is so tiny its a none issue. In fact most people would be appalled at the lack of security most Wireless networks have. These things cost money and while they sound great on paper, the cost to implement tends to steer people away when its all said and done.

That's right, and even if you flew over one it would be a loss of signal and the Solo would RTH until it was regained.

 

[Rich]

I have found that 3dr often takes the same sort of attitude you folks here are... probability seems to make this a non issue. Why bother reporting it?

So let me see if I understand you.

You won't try this setting yourself, but ask others to do it.
You think this is as real issue, but you won't report it directly to 3DR yourself.

This makes no sense. Why bother posting this on the net then? Are you just trying to be a troll?

Please either test this yourself (no need to take solo apart to edit files on the SD card as many tools like SCP can do it) or report it to 3DR.