Buy the rules, or not?

[User Name]

So after testing my little 250 quad's range (about 3.5 miles), I was looking on Google Maps to see what would be covered by a 3.5 mile radius from home. To my surprise, I found a small airstrip just outside town. I had known about it years ago, but always thought it was further away. But that got me thinking, so I looked up all the nearby airports, and started plotting a 5 mile radius around each one.

To my very unpleasant surprise, a 5 mile radius would put literally every notable feature in my area off-limits - the majority of three local state parks and nature preserves totaling over 30,000 acres and including all their highlight ridge lines and mountain lakes, a local historic site with 250+ year old stone houses, two local golf courses, miles of a nice windy river, and all the local schools and the local fairgrounds. What's left is either private farmland, forests and housing developments which are, respectively, most likely off limits (the farms), pointless (forests) and potentially dangerous due to wifi congestion, most likely off limits and largely pointless (developments).

I really want to be a responsible flier, but to do so means literally 100% of the flying I've done so far has been against the proposed rules. I really hope whatever laws are created strike a balance between the interests of all involved. The one airport that covers the majority of the local attractions is a small private air strip with maybe 5 or 6 planes. It seems unfair that so much can presumably be restricted for 5 or 6 people who, if general aviation is the same as it was when my father had a plane, fly their planes maybe a dozen times a year at best. If mandatory geo-fencing comes to pass, I might as well just quit.

So, what are people's thoughts on the practicality of 100% adherence to the rules?

 

[IceFyre13th]

Good job, you just posted that you don't want to "brake the rules"...................even if they are just "proposed" right now.......BTW, the airport radius limit is in actually enforceable right now

Now, look for a R/C flying field in your area, just about every place has one.....

 

[George Weaver]

Just call the airport operator (you can find them on Knowbeforeyoufly.org, Hover smartphone app, etc) and tell them what you'd like to do in the way of when you want to fly, proximity to the airport, max altitude you'll fly, duration, etc. Chances are they'll be more cooperative than if you just go for it. It's a brave new world out there!

 

[RichWest]

Regarding the private strip and the volume of flights. I would reach out to the local airfield and start a conversation for sharing the air space. Either you could provide notice for flight paths and altitudes or request their flight plans. The right conversation could work out to be the best approach from a local aspect. That would be an agreeable approach, concerned for their safety and your interest in sharing the space with notification.

I don't believe the level of air field restricts your flights. Major airports do, but smaller fields have less restrictive air space concerns. Don't quote me on that.... Do further research, rather than call it 100% restricted airspace.

 

[User Name]

Now, look for a R/C flying field in your area, just about every place has one.....

Not really a solution. These are flying cameras, not simple RC models that you fly around for fun - they're clearly meant to capture the world around us, not just some nondescript field somewhere.

 

[IceFyre13th]

I see how you skipped over the "brake the rules" part...

You stated (paraphrase)....testing range, 3.5 miles (not exactly line of site but I assume you were not flying at the time).

Airport rule, you do know not to fly within restricted airspace.....(you were looking at your local area to see where you can fly)

And the last one you covered everything else...."I really want to be a responsible flier, but to do so means literally 100% of the flying I've COULD DO MAY BE against the proposed rules."

Fortunately you still have time to edit your post before someone quotes you.......just saying you may want to reword it so you wont have someone misunderstand what you meant....

 

[User Name]

I see how you skipped over the "brake the rules" part...

No, in fact, I didn't.

3.5 miles (not exactly line of site but I assume you were not flying at the time).

It was a 2500 foot loop around a large field, so it was never more than about 1500 feet away from me.

At this point, I'm going to stop arguing with you given your propensity for (incorrect) assumptions and your patronizing suggestions (be happy operating your $2000 flying camera like a $50 RC toy plane).

But thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

[IceFyre13th]

Wow, just trying to help you..........but if you want to be like the bank robbers who posted thier crime then fine

Bank robber busted by posting videos & pics on Instagram

 

[User Name]

Wow, just trying to help you....

Ok, since you're continuing, please elaborate on your suggestion: Now, look for a R/C flying field in your area, just about every place has one.....

Was your idea of help truly to suggest fly a $2000 flying camera like a $50 RC toy plane?

Sorry if I'm a little quick to anger. Just really played out with assholes at the moment.

I would like to (truly) thank Rich and George for their suggestions, I'll definitely look to contact the airfield in question.

 

[Adimuzio513]

Ok, since you're continuing, please elaborate on your suggestion: Now, look for a R/C flying field in your area, just about every place has one.....

Was your idea of help truly to suggest fly a $2000 flying camera like a $50 RC toy plane?

Sorry if I'm a little quick to anger. Just really played out with assholes at the moment.

I would like to (truly) thank Rich and George for their suggestions, I'll definitely look to contact the airfield in question.

Was about to mention just what you had earlier, an rc flying field is beyond useless after flight one, if that's even interesting to watch. This answer seems to be from someone that doesn't own this type of copter or doesn't use it for AP at least. The suggestions about contacting the airfields is likley your best bet.

My biggest concern here is all the helipads, but I still have a decent amount of space locally I can film within these limitations. Not saying I disagree with these restrictions, but I too hope that they don't make our UAVs unusable to film anything worthwhile. Major airports need strict restrictions, but if I'm flying under 100 feet or so near smaller fields, which is our best bet to film most things than it would be safe nearly anywhere. Problem is the idiots that can't stay within the rules or use common sense trying to push the limits causing these large restrictions, maybe one day built in geo fencing could take these things into consideration, but I assume it would take quite a bit tech or planning wise, to map both altitude and the fence into all the different areas across the world. Wel see soon enough how the restrictions affect each of us, hopefully there is some balance. Good luck with your local air strips.

 

[flabango]

If you read the "guidelines" at Know Before You Fly they simply say "Contact the airport or control tower before flying within five miles of an airport." It doesn't say you have to ask for permission, its just says to contact them. So if you want, contact them and tell them where you are flying and let them know you'll stay under 400' and aren't in the flight path. As well, I'm pretty sure, (but of course it's at your own risk and results may vary) that if you flew within the 5 mile radius and as long as you're well away from the flight path, flying safely, you'll probably be fine. But that's just my opinion based on common sense and what I'm actually seeing out there in the field. The lowest common denominator approach can get ridiculous and unnecessarily restrictive at times.

In my opinion, the 5 mile radius is ridiculous and way too large. It should be more like a rectangle and only cover the flight path areas. Hopefully common sense eventually prevails.

 

[User Name]

If you read the "guidelines" at Know Before You Fly they simply say "Contact the airport or control tower before flying within five miles of an airport." It doesn't say you have to ask for permission, its just says to contact them. So if you want, contact them and tell them where you are flying and let them know you'll stay under 400' and aren't in the flight path. As well, I'm pretty sure, (but of course it's at your own risk and results may vary) that if you flew within the 5 mile radius and as long as you're well away from the flight path, flying safely, you'll probably be fine. But that's just my opinion based on common sense and what I'm actually seeing out there in the field. The lowest common denominator approach can get ridiculous and unnecessarily restrictive at times.

In my opinion, the 5 mile radius is ridiculous and way too large. It should be more like a rectangle and only cover the flight path areas. Hopefully common sense eventually prevails.

Thanks for the post, I'm definitely going to contact the airport in question. It's only a single runway, and it's fortunately oriented such that an approach from either heading is pretty much clear of any major landmarks/landscapes.

I totally agree that the 5 mile radius is ridiculous. My father had a small Cessna, and you're not at or below 500 feet altitude any more than maybe a 4000 foot radius around the runway. 5 miles is absurd. If I'm not mistaken, if someone is flying a plane under 500 feet, 5 miles from an airport, THEY are already breaking the law, as I believe airplanes need to maintain 500 foot minimum altitude at all times, sans takeoff and landing. 5 miles from the airport is most certainly not part of any approach or departure.

But in looking into this issue, the numbers I've come up with are alarming, and should be a call to action for everyone on "our" end. Please correct me if my math is incorrect, but:

A 5 mile radius covers 78.5 square miles. There are about 19,800 airports (all types, public, private, etc.) in the US. In total, a 5 mile radius around each one would cover 1,554,300 square miles. The US covers 3,794,066 square miles. If my numbers are correct, a 5 mile radius around each airport would cover a hair over 40% of the entire land mass of the US. Now there's certainly some overlap here and there, but it would still work out to be an enormous percent of the entire landmass of the country.

More numbers for the discussion: There are just under 600,000 certified pilots in the US, and of those, just over 200,000 are non-commercial, private pilots. The vast majority of the country's 19,800 airports are small public and private airports primarily to exclusively used for non-commercial, private airplanes. I could accept a 5 mile radius around major commercial airports, but a 5 mile radius around *every* airport means that around 40% of the entire land of the US is being restricted for the benefit of 200,000 people, or .06% of the entire population.

If the proposed rules solidify into fixed laws, it's going to make this industry all but untenable.

 

[User Name]

Here is, visually, a pretty close approximation of what a 5 mile radius around every airport looks like.

 

[Maddog]

The 5 mile restriction is what's used for (real) aircraft. The FAA is just extending it to drones because they don't know what else to do for now. It may change when they finally come out with their "drone" regulations.

 

[User Name]

The 5 mile restriction is what's used for (real) aircraft. The FAA is just extending it to drones because they don't know what else to do for now. It may change when they finally come out with their "drone" regulations.

I get that they don't know quite how to handle, but a distance measured in a blind radius is still overboard. Years ago, my father for FAA approval for a small grass runway in upstate NY, and it was under 3 miles from an existing airport. In fact, in the area, there's 4 airports all within a 5 mile radius - the furthest ones are themselves only 6 miles apart, with 2 in between.

The key was that the departure/approach paths didn't conflict. So if you can have another airport, with real aircraft, happily existing within a 5 mile radius, and some well within, it's a bit absurd to say that someone can't fly a few lb RC aircraft within a 5 mile radius.

But yea, I totally get that the technology got way ahead of the regulation. I just hope that the ultimate regulation is realistic.

 

[Maddog]

Hey, we're talking about the FAA here. A gigantic bureaucracy that requires 10 levels of review to approve the purchase of a stapler!

 

[Marich]

Yep, what a weird mess we're stepping into. Everyone is just so damned determined to be responsible, courteous, and first in line for registration we don't realize that we are:
1 - Defining the exact airspace we use for our quads simply by registering. Just post pilots on a map like the one above, scribe some circles... bingo.
2 - Literally giving the Feds the go-ahead to restrict our flights to whatever arbitrary distances from perceived danger areas they deem appropriate, having already given them carte blanch to do so.
3 - And, eventually - when some mental midget does (inevitably) screw up, you can be certain it's an unregistered drone flown by said sad sack. However, since he isn't on the books, the nearest "official" drone operator is you... well, well.
Man oh man.
Back to being vaguely on topic, I started making RC vids very near my local National Guard airbase, less than four miles away. First thing I did was get on the horn and announce my presence.
The response was "Cool!"
Haven't had a problem since.

 

[User Name]

Yep, what a weird mess we're stepping into.

Yep, agree on all counts. I don't like the idea of registration, but it's going to happen.

I had a similar experience to yours today. I found the contact information for the airport manager at the private strip near our town. No phone number, the road to the airport is marked private, there's no trespassing signs, so I'm just going to write them a letter stating where I fly and what procedures I follow.

So I stop by the local fairgrounds (about 2-3 miles from the airport) to test flying the Solo in manual mode, and when I arrive, there's 2 county sheriff cars, a local police car and a K9 unit. They were searching through a field, maybe practice or training. So I walk up to one of them and tell them I was going to fly a quadcopter in adjacent field, but I can come back later if they think it'd distract the dogs. No, go ahead, one of them said, a little distraction is good for the dogs.

Cooperation is always the best bet, I just hope whatever regulations the FAA decides on is reasonable and appropriate.