Solo Night Flight Video

[CMJ]

I may be wrong but not sure under recreational rules. Aircraft must be in VLOS. How you do that in the dark is questionable.

Led lights.

My local AMA model airport has night flights all the time. On top of that they are less than 2 miles from an airport.

 

[msantimanzano]

I may be wrong but not sure under recreational rules. Aircraft must be in VLOS. How you do that in the dark is questionable.

Not sure about you, but just because the sun goes down and its night time, I don't lose all vision. A, I can still see objects in the night that are not illuminated for a given distance. B, with illumination from the object, such as with lights or a flight strobe, I can see objects that are further away.

 

[andrew.baker.142]

Part 107 rules do not necessarily apply to recreational pilots, but there is lots of overlap. Night flights are one area where AMA rules allow night flights, but commercial operators need to cease operations 30 min after sunset unless a waiver is granted.
AMA policy on night flights is as follows "RC night flying requires a lighting system providing the pilot with a clear view of the model’s attitude and orientation at all times. Hand-held illumination systems are inadequate for night flying operations."

 

[ucsbgaucho00]

In terms of camera settings for dusk flight, slowest shutter speed is best, so 24fps preferably. Use ProTune, make sure sharpening is set to off, and limit your ISO to 400 max as anything higher on a GoPro really does become unusable, unless it's just for your own personal fun. Noise-reduction plugins for Adobe Premiere/After Effects do a pretty great job but GoPros will always have limitations, especially considering you cannot use the Hero5, which I think does have improved lowlight performance.

 

[evangelionhd]

Ufff... and i was looking for advice on settings of the gopro for night time... well the part of this site focused to the camera is more forgivig with less policing... ask your question over there... i will just not post my video here because i could get burned on the stake.

 

[dmyhill]

No. It does apply to you. This is how screwed up the rules are in some ways.

It is more complicated than that. If you are not commercial, and want to skirt the edges, the best path is probably to join the AMA, and then carefully follow their standards. The answer is that hobby is de facto covered by AMA standards.

 

[EyeWingsuit]

I would argue that it was dusk, my title is merely a title and not reality. You can still see sunlight to the west.

Protune/native white/400iso/auto shutter/ I think I had low light mode on too. I did mess with the color in Premier, and the playback speed was set to 200%.

The correct term is "Civil Twilight" but I'd suggest changing the title of your post. You are flying post sunset. Strobes are required. Please fly legally? Not doing so impacts a much broader group than just yourself.

ProTune, 400, the only way you'll get a more clean image is if you shoot in HD and not 2.7. You can always run any number of denoising tools found in Premiere, After Effects, or PhotoShop

 

[Michael Lione]

Thanks for the low light tips. As for the side talk on night flying. First off, I agree that this is at the outside edge of twilight based on the westerly horizon and conforms to the 107 reg.

As to the subject of night flight. This has been beat up countless times here and on several FB Study Groups. At the end of the day (pun intended) it boils down to one word; Guidelines. Guidelines are all that the FAA provides in the 101 flying environment. They impose age and altitude limits, the 5SM no fly zone around airports without notification, mandatory registration, and labeling but defer to a "Community Based Organization" ie: AMA to provide flight guidelines.

Flying 107 at night is restricted by the FAA "Regulation" that was exposed in this thread. I'm retired. My flying to date has been 80% learning to fly and the rest shooting vids and snaps. I did certify 107 mostly to give me additional credibility in possible LEO intervention which has yet to happen in my 50+ hours of flight time.

Additionally I shelled out $65 for my old fart AMA membership. Huge bargain if just for the Insurance which covers you anywhere you fly. Some are confused that AMA coverage applies only during sanctioned events or fields.

The FAA 101/107 night flight positions are high, if not at the top, of 107 operator's list of frustration. A 13 year old kid, albeit discouraged by guidelines, can fly at night but a certified professional cannot without a very hard to obtain waiver. My guess (and hope) is this will be on top of any FAA reconsideration of future amendments to Part 107.

 

[Ralph E. Johnson]

I decided to try out the GoPro in low light conditions. It was just a simple climb up to 300ft and then pan around in a circle. The settings were on 2.7k/60, I think 24 or 30fps might work better at night. Any pointers for me?

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Thanks
Chris

Very Very cool!!! It was relaxing to watch and I was amazed at how well the GoPro did at night. Keep sharing

 

[EyeWingsuit]

Thanks for the low light tips. As for the side talk on night flying. First off, I agree that this is at the outside edge of twilight based on the westerly horizon and conforms to the 107 reg.

As to the subject of night flight. This has been beat up countless times here and on several FB Study Groups. At the end of the day (pun intended) it boils down to one word; Guidelines. Guidelines are all that the FAA provides in the 101 flying environment. They impose age and altitude limits, the 5SM no fly zone around airports without notification, mandatory registration, and labeling but defer to a "Community Based Organization" ie: AMA to provide flight guidelines.

Flying 107 at night is restricted by the FAA "Regulation" that was exposed in this thread. I'm retired. My flying to date has been 80% learning to fly and the rest shooting vids and snaps. I did certify 107 mostly to give me additional credibility in possible LEO intervention which has yet to happen in my 50+ hours of flight time.

Additionally I shelled out $65 for my old fart AMA membership. Huge bargain if just for the Insurance which covers you anywhere you fly. Some are confused that AMA coverage applies only during sanctioned events or fields.

The FAA 101/107 night flight positions are high, if not at the top, of 107 operator's list of frustration. A 13 year old kid, albeit discouraged by guidelines, can fly at night but a certified professional cannot without a very hard to obtain waiver. My guess (and hope) is this will be on top of any FAA reconsideration of future amendments to Part 107.

A: Not a hard-to-obtain waiver. Not in the least. I have taught nearly 100 people in 17 classes over the past 9 months, and written/assisted in the writing of 21 waivers. All have been granted except a few from a class in February.
B: Regulations aren't guidelines. The FARs are not guidelines. FARs are Federal Aviation Regulations (not "recommendations" or "guidelines.") Those that suggest they are have no background in aviation, don't understand the reasons behind them, and certainly don't grasp the safety concerns.

You have a 107/RPC. You are obligated to observe the regulations whether you agree with them or not. You agreed to do so as part of your application. LEO doesn't have squat to say about Federal regulations. They can ask for your registration, but cannot enforce nor cite for any FAR infraction. I suggest you revisit the FARs and the FSIMs. There is no ambiguity. Facebook groups aren't reliable sources. Please respect the rights and responsibilities of the rest of the community.

I'm happy to help you obtain a waiver. It's not at all hard. You do need required training from an acknowledged source.

 

[Michael Lione]

Yikes! First off I suggest you go with a slightly larger logo so we don't to miss it.

I will retract my implication that the actual application process is "very" hard and will go with a simple hard. I have never petitioned the FAA for special consideration and can not attest to how difficult it is or isn't. The fact that you have put so much effort to help so many to complete the process would seem to agree with my observation.

You are completely correct in in your assertions that regulations are indeed not guidelines and FAR's are most certainly Regulations. What confuses me is at no place in my post did I ever allege that guidelines are regulations or FARs are not. What I attempted to imply is that Guidelines are just that and as such not enforceable by LEO or anyone else. Actually LEAs with the help of LEOs in the field do play a role in FAA law enforcement. Law Enforcement engagement with Suspected Unauthorized UAS Operations

I will assume that your guidance regarding my obligations to the FAA was provided as friendly advice and not an allegation that I do not follow the rules. Truth be known as it applies to Authorizations or Waivers I have no dog in the hunt. My reference to frustration is not my own but countless others who have, and continue to loose, revenue because of an error of omission on the application further complicated the time Waivers take to process. I am also well aware that the process continues to improve both by the enhanced efficiency of the process and many of those who have successfully completed the process and anxious to help those that haven't.

In defense of many fine and knowledgeable members of FB Groups. I cannot begin to profess the tremendous amount of knowledge and expertise that I personally gained participating in discussions in Owners, Study, Photography, Mod, and Legal Groups just like this one.

Last but not least, thank you for your kind offer to assist me in obtaining a Wavier. As aforementioned originally and in this response I'm an old retired guy who feels blessed to have been exposed to this amazing arena. I have enjoyed photography all my life and UAS has added an incredible new dimension to my horizons.

 

[EyeWingsuit]

Michael, I wish this site would allow direct insertion of graphics; no way to easily resize.

My impression that you used the expression "107 at night is restricted by the FAA "Regulation" that was exposed in this thread." to indicate you don't feel it's a regulation. I apologize if I misinterpreted your words.
From my side of the coin, sitting on two FAA boards and one industry coalition board, the main melody heard is "I don't accept the regs, so I blow them off."
It's a good discussion, but RPC's definitely need to follow the regs. Part 101 folks need to follow the rules too. Those will be overhauled soon enough, unfortunately, particularly due to those that choose to not follow the rules.

 

[Michael Lione]

In the discussion both the 107 Night Flight Regulations and the 101 Guidelines were posted by others. I meant only to distinguish that there is a difference between a Regulation and Guideline which it seems many do not understand which then only adds to the confusion and in some cases frustration. I put a tremendous effort into passing my exam (missed three questions) and both respect and strictly adhere to all the Regulations set forth in Part 107.

As an aside to our exchange I developed a PowerPoint that I presented last weekend as part of the Makers Day program conducted throughout NJ by local library's. My focus was to educate the participants on UAS including registration, safety, B4UFly. My focus was on the hobby environment. Afterwards we went to the ballpatk and I flew my Solo. I asked that the Library to contact the local jurisdiction to make sure there were no local restrictions. I was gratified that the Mayor was in attendance.

 

[dmyhill]

A: Not a hard-to-obtain waiver. Not in the least. I have taught nearly 100 people in 17 classes over the past 9 months, and written/assisted in the writing of 21 waivers. All have been granted except a few from a class in February.


I'm happy to help you obtain a waiver. It's not at all hard. You do need required training from an acknowledged source.

I assume it isn't free, this "help", and therefore you prove the point that it is indeed hard.

Also, it seems the waiver process is about 99.99% about speaking pilot, and knowing what the FAA wants to see...But they don't tell you exactly. This is (IMHO) willfully being difficult on their part, a way to stop the avalanche and play favorites. They can't say this, of course, since that would be illegal and impolitic.

If they said, "such and such a course is required", then there would be a path, just like a regular pilot trying to move to the next level. But that isn't the way it works. The reasons may be valid and good for safety, but they are HARD to navigate for those without FAA experience.

 

[Whirlygig]

Pilot with 107 is expressly prohibited from flying past twilight except with navigational lights and waiver. But, hobbyist is not. It seems counter intuitive to me but so be it!

 

[EyeWingsuit]

Pilot with 107 is expressly prohibited from flying past twilight except with navigational lights and waiver. But, hobbyist is not. It seems counter intuitive to me but so be it!

Hobbyist class also recommend strobes. Not required per AMA, but recommended. However, as more CBO's come on line, expect this to change. It's basic safety that doesn't impact flight, so there is no demonstrable downside.

 

[EyeWingsuit]

I assume it isn't free, this "help", and therefore you prove the point that it is indeed hard.

Also, it seems the waiver process is about 99.99% about speaking pilot, and knowing what the FAA wants to see...But they don't tell you exactly. This is (IMHO) willfully being difficult on their part, a way to stop the avalanche and play favorites. They can't say this, of course, since that would be illegal and impolitic.

If they said, "such and such a course is required", then there would be a path, just like a regular pilot trying to move to the next level. But that isn't the way it works. The reasons may be valid and good for safety, but they are HARD to navigate for those without FAA experience.

Because something isn't "free" it is automatically "hard?"
Seriously?

You can go learn it all on your own. I call that "hard." I also consider my time valuable, so when I want to learn something, I turn to SME's to teach me. That way, I learn the things I wouldn't normally realize on my own. To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln; "He who teaches himself has a fool for a student." On many topics, I don't know what I don't know, and rather than fall victim to Dunning-Kruger, I trust someone else to be sure I have a thorough knowledge.

That doesn't make it "harder," but rather "easier" in my view.

I'd suggest that the deliberately not telling you what they want to see is paranoia. They give you a list of what they want to see, just not the specifics of YOUR operation. If you haven't studied basic aviation, of course it will seem daunting, particularly if you come from the world of instant gratification vs working for something. Remember when you were 16 and studying for your driver's test? Was that "hard?"

Every waiver is currently read by a human being. That human being is responsible for the safety of others in the air. If you can't clearly articulate your operation, then likely you have no business being there. Every operation is different, and therefore copy/paste doesn't suffice.

No, these things are not "hard." They do require some responsibility in learning. You're throwing a potentially damaging device into the National AirSpace. Responsibility is required.

 

[dmyhill]

Quote: You can go learn it all on your own. I call that "hard."

So we all agree. Why are you freaking out about that?

QUOTE: I also consider my time valuable,

Of course you do. Probably is. But don't call it "help", as in your doing someone a favor. You are using this forum to get free advertising for your business. All good, but it is what it is.

And, if the FAA isn't being purposely obscure, then why were there multiple questions on the test that demand an answer of "contact ATC", but the website has misinformation that the the rules say you must get an authorization? (Which with weather, schedules and such is essentially a flat out "NO", since it takes 90 days.)

I stand by my perspective. It is not mine alone, I don't feel persecuted or singled out. I talk to pilots, and ever single one at some point has said, "The FAA isn't happy until you are unhappy." Are they all paranoid too?

Look, everyone claims to be on this board and that and to have special knowledge, and maybe you are. Doesn't change the truth of what I said...

The process is obscure and hard (difficult).

You agreed that without paying someone money it is hard.

Again, why freak out?

The core issue is that if it is accessible, there will be compliance. If not there won't be. As for me, I will follow the rules. I am a professional, and the side show of all this isn't worth messing up my reputation, but it puts me at a competitive disadvantage. Oh well, not the first time...But don't blow smoke up nose and tell me the process is easy.

 

[EyeWingsuit]

Were I advertising, I'd have a link to the courses, a website, a phone number, whatever. You don't see that, because I'm advertising nothing.
In my circles, I'm recognized by the military, FAA, USPA, FAI as a SME. I provide information for the price of you reading it. Value it (or not) as you will.

If one can't pass a 107.29 practical and written examination, then they absolutely shouldn't be flying either in the day or night, IMO.

I'd answer your questions more specifically, but your tone suggests that no matter the explanation, it won't be good enough for you, professional or not.
Out of curiosity, what professional ratings do you hold in aviation? FAA? FAI? ICAO? TC? CAA? CASA?

 

[stanordave]

if flying for fun under AMA guidelines
"RC night flying requires a lighting system providing the pilot with a clear view of the model’s attitude and orientation at all times. Hand-held illumination systems are inadequate for night flying operations."

I night fly (for fun) a lot, even past midnight! When flying commercial, its strobes and civil twilight. Or apply for a waiver..