Site Scan vs Drone Deploy

Burkeam · Apr 4, 2016

Does anyone have experience with site Scan? I'm trying to get the work flow down on Site Scan before purchasing it. There is no trail or monthly licence. It will also have a huge advantage with the new Sony 20meg and able to geotag the gopro images. I'm trying get some volumetric data via the autodesk but unable to get samples to work in recap.

Drone deploys needs a manual performed geotag images but deliver a package with volumetrics and NDVI all together.

any input on subject welcomed

Burke

franknitty69 · Apr 5, 2016

i haven't used sitescan but i know its a suite comprised of the sitescan app (capture geo 2d/3d data and automatically upload them to the cloud), a360 (cloud) and recap (maps, dems, models, etc). processed jobs are synced back to sitecan and the cloud integrates with other autodesk products.

i have used dronedeploy and it has a similar workflow (app, cloud, processing). it has NDVI processing and volume measurement, while recap doesn't. recap appears to support measurement, but it apparently not volume.

RPM · Apr 5, 2016

You may want to consider Event 38 DDMS. I have not had the chance to test it through yet but it looks promising and very reasonably priced.

https://event38.com/drone-data-management-system/

Burkeam · Apr 11, 2016

I'm definitely now looking for something else then SiteScan -unless they repackage it. The only advantage I see is the auto geotagging the gopro images and being able to buy the Sony Camera. SS won't allow you to use a modified GP so you can only use two cameras which one is not available yet. They don't offer any kind or trial, try and buy or guarantee. Sales can't answer any questions so I really questioning it being a poor investment. Thanks for the input

What is DD or event38 workflow on using the GP4 without the geotag info.

Flying Squirrel · Apr 11, 2016

Burkeam said:
I'm definitely now looking for something else then SiteScan -unless they repackage it. The only advantage I see is the auto geotagging the gopro images and being able to buy the Sony Camera. SS won't allow you to use a modified GP so you can only use two cameras which one is not available yet. They don't offer any kind or trial, try and buy or guarantee. Sales can't answer any questions so I really questioning it being a poor investment. Thanks for the input

What is DD or event38 workflow on using the GP4 without the geotag info.

2nd THIS ...

3DR sales is slow to respond and replied to my initial inquiry with a regurgitation of links to sales info on the 3DR website. I have again requested more information and a demo, however I have not received a response ... 1 week now.

I suspect Site Scan is in fact the Tower application with a new skin

Burkeam · Apr 11, 2016

I was going to buy Sitescan and the Success package last week, just to keep it in the family and had total satisfaction with 3dr to date. Then I had to pry for a few questions before committing.

So about using a upgraded lens on the Gopro:

We won't support any other cameras beyond the Sony R10C, including modded GoPros. So that means, no ability to create different profiles for different types of cameras. I do not want to go backwards and buy another standard gopro

How about scanning a building/property with access on limited side:

They will only revolve a full 360 around an object. This doesn't work so well on a rectangular building or factory with trees, high lighting pole or limited airspace
Also It will not let you add to the mission or even generate a separate free fly missions or vertical planes.

I saw great potential in SS to 3d model but then add a better definition side shot models in recap. So now I need two drones if using a Solo with Sitescan. The business model for me doesn't make good sense, which really sucks.

No what really sucks is it took me over two weeks wasting my time getting answers and trying to stimulate the workflow through the (added cost of) Autodesk products. No thanks to the lack of knowledge of the sales department on how the product works /not works, while listening to a dog barking in the back ground on three different calls. Finally I now know the product doesn't work for me. Over 36 hours of my time to get here, again playing with Autodesk too.

3DR exit door has been opened for me. Sorry all that joyful praise might be coming to the end?

Please keep me posted on anything that will help me keep it in the family? Like this
http://escadrone.com/solo-mapper/?lang=en

Burkeam · Apr 11, 2016

RPM said:
You may want to consider Event 38 DDMS. I have not had the chance to test it through yet but it looks promising and very reasonably priced.

https://event38.com/drone-data-management-system/

Will do. They are only 1.4 hours from me

Flying Squirrel · Apr 11, 2016

I keep asking - myself - the same question over and over again ... What does the industry need/want?

When I say industry I am referring to the recipient of the end product ... The end product being a 3d map, point cloud, orthomosaic, etc. I'm talking specifically about using Solo for enterprise -- mapping. Am I on the right pathway here?

I envision an engineering firm receiving a file from a "Aerial Data Acquisition Team", who takes said data, plugs it into 360recap or some other Autodesk product and creates a model... But these are MY thoughts. What's 3DR thinking? - subscription fees? - share holder value?

I think what we have here is a bunch of really smart electrical engineers who are designing and producing some high-tech flying cameras ... These engineers are creating what they envision as the "perfect UAS", however with no specific purpose in mind.

Enter the marketing team ... they're in an office in San Diego. These guys know R&D exists but they don't know where they are ... all marketing sees is the end product and their task is to figure out what to so with said product. Who will use it - target market - and how they will get us to buy it - how to generate revenue.

Ya'll are thinking I'm crazy ... I actually have a day off and I'm sitting here in my PJ's contemplating exactly what 3DR marketing is doing ... and Whiskey Tango Foxtrot am I supposed to do with this thing?

Here's what I need for mapping (with comments) -

1. Stable platform - reliable equipment with a defined maintenance schedule and network of service and parts providers.
Right now if you need service for Solo you have a few options:
a. chat with a 3DR tech
b. call Christian who answers his cellphone anytime, anywhere ... he could be in the field, in his office, or in his living room. So, the only service provider lives in San Diego California
c. Learn basic electrical engineering, learn how to solder, learn Python
d. buy a new Solo

2. User friendly software and interface
So far this past week I've:
a. worked on reviewing Unix and basic terminal commands
b. began studying Audrino
c. began learning Python - a computer programming language
d. installed Autodesk, Pix4dmapper, Python, Pip, runnit, and various other programs needed to interface with Solo

Note: I've got MacOSx AND Windows running on my iMac ... Why? Because Mission Planner and APM 2.0 each behave differently. I am flying Solo with an iPad AND a Droid tablet ... Why? Because Tower is not available for iOS. I... By the way, I'm not a computer programmer or an engineer and while I have completed several mapping missions, and successfully created maps, the entire process has taken way to much time and energy.

3. Efficient Work Flow - Workflow?
Thats a NEGATIVE Goose

Situation Report

Stability: Meh... Solo is stable out of the box, but is it ready for commercial use? The engineers think so... Me, not so much.
User friendly: Meh... If you're putzing around the field on a Saturday or want to dazzle YouTubers yes, otherwise consider Georgia Tech for a degree in computer engineering
Efficient Workflow: All I've done since I acquired Solo last year is fantasize about what I can do with Solo. Everything from aerial photography to search and rescue operations ... I've yet to come up with a reliable system that doesn't require computer super user knowledge

Does anyone else experiencing similar?? I think I'm going to try something a little less time consuming like getting my helicopter rating

Burkeam · Apr 11, 2016

Flying Squirrel said:
I keep asking - myself - the same question over and over again ... What does the industry need/want?

When I say industry I am referring to the recipient of the end product ... The end product being a 3d map, point cloud, orthomosaic, etc. I'm talking specifically about using Solo for enterprise -- mapping. Am I on the right pathway here?

I envision an engineering firm receiving a file from a "Aerial Data Acquisition Team", who takes said data, plugs it into 360recap or some other Autodesk product and creates a model... But these are MY thoughts. What's 3DR thinking? - subscription fees? - share holder value?

I think what we have here is a bunch of really smart electrical engineers who are designing and producing some high-tech flying cameras ... These engineers are creating what they envision as the "perfect UAS", however with no specific purpose in mind.

Enter the marketing team ... they're in an office in San Diego. These guys know R&D exists but they don't know where they are ... all marketing sees is the end product and their task is to figure out what to so with said product. Who will use it - target market - and how they will get us to buy it - how to generate revenue.

Ya'll are thinking I'm crazy ... I actually have a day off and I'm sitting here in my PJ's contemplating exactly what 3DR marketing is doing ... and Whiskey Tango Foxtrot am I supposed to do with this thing?

Here's what I need for mapping (with comments) -

1. Stable platform - reliable equipment with a defined maintenance schedule and network of service and parts providers.
Right now if you need service for Solo you have a few options:
a. chat with a 3DR tech
b. call Christian who answers his cellphone anytime, anywhere ... he could be in the field, in his office, or in his living room. So, the only service provider lives in San Diego California
c. Learn basic electrical engineering, learn how to solder, learn Python
d. buy a new Solo

2. User friendly software and interface
So far this past week I've:
a. worked on reviewing Unix and basic terminal commands
b. began studying Audrino
c. began learning Python - a computer programming language
d. installed Autodesk, Pix4dmapper, Python, Pip, runnit, and various other programs needed to interface with Solo

Note: I've got MacOSx AND Windows running on my iMac ... Why? Because Mission Planner and APM 2.0 each behave differently. I am flying Solo with an iPad AND a Droid tablet ... Why? Because Tower is not available for iOS. I... By the way, I'm not a computer programmer or an engineer and while I have completed several mapping missions, and successfully created maps, the entire process has taken way to much time and energy.

3. Efficient Work Flow - Workflow?
Thats a NEGATIVE Goose

Situation Report

Stability: Meh... Solo is stable out of the box, but is it ready for commercial use? The engineers think so... Me, not so much.
User friendly: Meh... If you're putzing around the field on a Saturday or want to dazzle YouTubers yes, otherwise consider Georgia Tech for a degree in computer engineering
Efficient Workflow: All I've done since I acquired Solo last year is fantasize about what I can do with Solo. Everything from aerial photography to search and rescue operations ... I've yet to come up with a reliable system that doesn't require computer super user knowledge

Does anyone else experiencing similar?? I think I'm going to try something a little less time consuming like getting my helicopter rating

Dead on from my point of view. I'm ready to fully commercialize my drone operations but the Solo is starting to feel less mature because of the marketing approach of Sitescan. Some huge changes should be in the funnel or this is one product not going to last. The cost goes to $6 a year come this summer. Paying an extra $1,200 for Success package is more like paying someone to tell you you can't do that with this software but we have a replacement Solo warranty included. But wait you need to buy it 1st because there is no demo nor trial. So just trust us and buy it before we tell you it won't do that, because we haven't figured it out yet?

The Sitescan does aid by adding Geotag data however this should be a standard feature for the Solo application. Lack of geotag data on the gopro has alway created room for error and more time.

No need to get worked up about it as the pilot and data management will all be AI in my lifetime. In the meantime I want to have fun and make some good coin. I just don't like wasting too much money on thinking some is great when it's not. I hope 3DR proves my wrong. really.

Burkeam · Apr 11, 2016

RPM said:
You may want to consider Event 38 DDMS. I have not had the chance to test it through yet but it looks promising and very reasonably priced.

https://event38.com/drone-data-not sure thier version of mission planner willmanagement-system/

I like the product on the surface.

RPM said:
You may want to consider Event 38 DDMS. I have not had the chance to test it through yet but it looks promising and very reasonably priced.

https://event38.com/drone-data-management-system/

I like the DDMS on the surface. Not sure the Mission planner will drive the Solo. I signed up for the free service but would gladly pay $1,000 if it works. They will need to trigger the camera.

RPM · Apr 11, 2016

Mission planner will drive the solo through UDP yes. I think the DDMS looks promising too. They do have photo limit but I think they could be convinced to up the limits based on demand.

franknitty69 · Apr 11, 2016

i gave the free version of event 38's DDMS a try this weekend. it will geotag if you put a tlog in the same directory as your images when you upload. you can't verify the accuracy though. you can only hit go for the ortho or 3d model. the speed was ok. the output was ok.

i can see why a cloud based workflow is desirable because i can just upload my images and keep my computer free for other tasks. the downside is upload time and bandwidth. now what would make a cloud based workflow even better is automation (geotagging, uploading, processing and delivery) and i believe that is what site scan is looking to do. drone deploy seems to be the only other service that has a somewhat full auto workflow.

the other thing that i notice is that the cloud-based processor that i have tried so far (ddms, dronedeploy) aren't as flexible and accurate as using say pix4d mapper or photoscan pro.

escadrone uses the solo, sony camera, tower and mission planner so while the missions are more flexible than sitescan. it doesn't auto geotag and no cloud processing. you would still need mapping software or use something like ddms or dronedeploy.

as far as the solo being a complex system. it is and it isn't. that's the beauty of it. if you just want to fly or map, you can. if you want to expand the system to whatever you can think of...you can.

RPM · Apr 12, 2016

Thanks for the info Frank!
For myself the geo-tagging process will be hands on as I will be using RTK and post processing and it will be a chance for me to verify the photos location and eliminate any errors, hopefully. The benefit of auto referencing doesn't appeal to me, especially from a Neo 7. Emlid have just launched APM support for Reach so hopefully once all the bugs are worked out it will be a reliable hands off step.
The main appeal to me is outsourcing the processing. Even on my capable machine Photoscan can take half a day easy to align, mesh etc.. The processing power they have set up is quite expensive and hopefully with enough subscribers they will keep updating their hardware and I won't have to.
I should have some results from Solo and Reach to share by June.
Cheers!

CurrentUAS · Apr 12, 2016

Flying Squirrel said:
Enter the marketing team ... they're in an office in San Diego. These guys know R&D exists but they don't know where they are ... all marketing sees is the end product and their task is to figure out what to so with said product. Who will use it - target market - and how they will get us to buy it - how to generate revenue.

1. Stable platform - reliable equipment with a defined maintenance schedule and network of service and parts providers.
Right now if you need service for Solo you have a few options:
a. chat with a 3DR tech
b. call Christian who answers his cellphone anytime, anywhere ... he could be in the field, in his office, or in his living room. So, the only service provider lives in San Diego California
c. Learn basic electrical engineering, learn how to solder, learn Python
d. buy a new Solo

Marketing is in Austin, it was never in San Diego. There is no 3DR in San Diego anymore. R&D, RMA, Flight Operations (and former enterprise solutions) and shipping used to all be in San Diego. R&D slowly moved up to Berkeley late 2014. Austin opened up around the same time for marketing and sales. RMA and shipping stayed in San Diego, customer support and tech support has always been in Tijuana. Early this year RMA moved to Tijuana and shipping is now done by a third party out in the bay area that receives from China. You're right though, there is a lot of communication breakdown between the 3DR offices/departments so you're not too far off.

Oh and thought I might butt in and say Christian works for Current UAS - UAV Repair Services we're former 3DR RMA technicians.

franknitty69 · Apr 12, 2016

RPM said:
Thanks for the info Frank!
For myself the geo-tagging process will be hands on as I will be using RTK and post processing and it will be a chance for me to verify the photos location and eliminate any errors, hopefully. The benefit of auto referencing doesn't appeal to me, especially from a Neo 7. Emlid have just launched APM support for Reach so hopefully once all the bugs are worked out it will be a reliable hands off step.
The main appeal to me is outsourcing the processing. Even on my capable machine Photoscan can take half a day easy to align, mesh etc.. The processing power they have set up is quite expensive and hopefully with enough subscribers they will keep updating their hardware and I won't have to.
I should have some results from Solo and Reach to share by June.
Cheers!

let me know how you like the reach. i've heard nothing but good things and its it seems to be accurate within +/- 50cm. the price is amazing. if i do get one i will work out a way to implement it with solo's accessory bay.

Ørjan Sandland · Jul 29, 2016

franknitty69 said:
i gave the free version of event 38's DDMS a try this weekend. it will geotag if you put a tlog in the same directory as your images when you upload. you can't verify the accuracy though. you can only hit go for the ortho or 3d model. the speed was ok. the output was ok.

i can see why a cloud based workflow is desirable because i can just upload my images and keep my computer free for other tasks. the downside is upload time and bandwidth. now what would make a cloud based workflow even better is automation (geotagging, uploading, processing and delivery) and i believe that is what site scan is looking to do. drone deploy seems to be the only other service that has a somewhat full auto workflow.

the other thing that i notice is that the cloud-based processor that i have tried so far (ddms, dronedeploy) aren't as flexible and accurate as using say pix4d mapper or photoscan pro.

escadrone uses the solo, sony camera, tower and mission planner so while the missions are more flexible than sitescan. it doesn't auto geotag and no cloud processing. you would still need mapping software or use something like ddms or dronedeploy.

as far as the solo being a complex system. it is and it isn't. that's the beauty of it. if you just want to fly or map, you can. if you want to expand the system to whatever you can think of...you can.

Escadrone auto geotags now. Not sure if that's a change or not? I just purchased a QX1 and the escadrone gimbal and companion computer is hopefully in the mail shortly.
I'm very much a rookie with mapping but I'm determined to find a way to get serious with my Solo.
The lack of auto geotagged images in the Solo is a real showstopper to a fluent mapping process. The process of doing this with geosetter is just annoying, but maybe it grows on ya

.
Dronedeploy is the solution that's been the easiest to work with, but I hear it's a little limited. Agribotix is really picky on the input files, and pix4dmapper is just crazy expensive (while also being a bit picky with the source files).
Regarding Site Scan I'm a little surprised about their business model. Are they thinking the partnership with Autodesk will bring the customers to their door? Even Autodesk acknowledged years ago that they had to give their software to students to become industry leading. So odd that Site Scan is so unattainable for those trying to get into the business..

It would be really interesting to get an update from you guys - if you've moved forward or come across more solutions.

franknitty69 · Jul 30, 2016

Ørjan Sandland said:
Escadrone auto geotags now. Not sure if that's a change or not? I just purchased a QX1 and the escadrone gimbal and companion computer is hopefully in the mail shortly.
I'm very much a rookie with mapping but I'm determined to find a way to get serious with my Solo.
The lack of auto geotagged images in the Solo is a real showstopper to a fluent mapping process. The process of doing this with geosetter is just annoying, but maybe it grows on ya .
Dronedeploy is the solution that's been the easiest to work with, but I hear it's a little limited. Agribotix is really picky on the input files, and pix4dmapper is just crazy expensive (while also being a bit picky with the source files).
Regarding Site Scan I'm a little surprised about their business model. Are they thinking the partnership with Autodesk will bring the customers to their door? Even Autodesk acknowledged years ago that they had to give their software to students to become industry leading. So odd that Site Scan is so unattainable for those trying to get into the business..

It would be really interesting to get an update from you guys - if you've moved forward or come across more solutions.

i have a QX1 and intel edison on solo and that is my default mapping rig. i still have to manually geotag. i'm trying to work out a solution for auto geotagging using the sony sdk.

as far as processing it seems to be down to accuracy (gcp support), cloud based or desktop and cost. if cost is a factor, the cloud based solutions that have a monthly fee are the better options (ddms, dronedeploy, etc). but if you want sheer accuracy, nothing can beat pix4d and photoscan pro. one huge advantage of cloud based processing is that you can process multiple jobs at the same time. with a desktop app, even on a beefy computer, you can only do one at a time and its a manual process (vs being fully automated). and if you want the use of gcp its going to cost you $$$. The cheap options or the free options don't support it.

STMPNGRND · Jul 30, 2016

franknitty69 said:
let me know how you like the reach. i've heard nothing but good things and its it seems to be accurate within +/- 50cm. the price is amazing. if i do get one i will work out a way to implement it with solo's accessory bay.

Reach is great! I haven't used it in the air yet but only in a ground based precision navigation project.

Warren Gentry · Aug 28, 2016

Hello, Wondering if anyone has received or is using the Escadrone gimbal, camera and on board computer. Also I am wondering if anybody is currently using PrecisionHawk's Datamapper to process images. I am just beginning to explore possibilities and I have some interest in these two products.
DataMapper

Ørjan Sandland · Aug 29, 2016

I received my Escadrone gimbal last week, but I haven't had too much time testing it. Ironing out some issues with their support - but I will be back with some info by the end of the week.