Has anyone been successful in getting 3DR to honor their money back guarantee?

[GoodnNuff]

Nope. Mine had 10 sats and an hdop NEVER over 1.6. In open space with no obstructions.

The Solo spontaneously went into ALT HOLD (they first tried to say I put it in pause, but I proved otherwise) then spit a "horiz variance" error and a few seconds later TUMBLED out of the sky, with almost zero stick. From a flat hover with only slight stick tweaks. It dropped about 18 feet in about a second, while going side over side and end over end.

I am experienced, with 30+ years in electronics, avionics, computers, and beta testing everything you can imagine.

This was the craft. Not me. I know that, if you don't. I now have 2 bad motors, and no ETA for repairs. .

My tlog file (as well as much of my experience) is posted under the thread "finally!!"

Given several significant delays, a faulty product, very bad support, and no parts, and a 30 day window. 3DR has really given me no real choice but to send it back.

I sincerely hope your experience is better.

3DR has made it clear that the 30 day period doesn't start UNTIL you recieve your gimbal.

 

[Earldgrayjr]

Good grief! I see some whining going on here!!
Want some cheese......LOL

Excuse me.... If you paid $1700 (Solo, backpack, batteries, props) and got something that doesn't work, and you can't get support, and keep getting automatically hung up on, and the company tried hard to blame it on you, until I proved it wasn't (where most people couldn't) and don't get replies for days, and only then after prodding, and can still get no ETA for replacment parts (reconfirmed today) and can't get any technical answers to specific questions related to my actual problem, even after asking several times in writing and being told they were "coming" only to get another reply that side steps the VERY specific questions.... Like me....

And you are still "happy" then you are simply a masochist, or a fool.

I have beta tested everything you can imagine for decades. I am used to being on the leading edge. I am more than willing to help and am very capable of being an expert ally and supporter. I have done it literally hundreds of times. Just be straight with me, and don't ignore me.

3DR is not being straight with me, and they are ignoring me while hanging me out to dry.

Good luck.

 

[Earldgrayjr]

3DR has made it clear that the 30 day period doesn't start UNTIL you recieve your gimbal.

I heard that as well, and until my recent experience took it as the gospel. Where however is it "in writing"?

 

[Kabz]

I heard that as well, and until my recent experience took it as the gospel. Where however is it "in writing"?

Its been posted dozens of times. A little bit of research would yield those results.

I don't care how much experience you have flying or whatever. If you are going to bring an attitude and start barking at a CS rep about a defective product or sending passive aggressive emails back and forth, don't expect them to just give you world class service -- people forget they are talking to humans sometimes when their technology doesnt work. So far everybody is getting their issues dealt with as fast as the company can.

They don't return emails in time? What if they don't want to give you a bullshit answer, and actually want to investigate your issue before responding.
You can try to compare a company like this to an amazon or apple, but thats just silly for what is still a niche market.

Not at all products are created equally, and I don't think 3DR plans to reneg on their promise for the best CS they can provide for a product that has been on market for less than a month.

I'm not happy that I ordered from BH on apr 16 and didnt receive until weeks after the best but crowd.
I'm not happy I still dont have my free battery. (But its great they offered it in the first place - and even those who didnt purchase gimbals seem to have gotten one free)
I'm not happy I have to turn down jobs because I dont have a gimbal yet.
But I know that they want to stand apart from what is an increasingly competitive UAV market.
And once I get my gimbal and see how well it functions on set, I'll hopefully get over it.

It seems as if the disgruntled 1% is louder than the content 99% at this point (not an exact statistic).

 

[rrmccabe]

It seems as if the disgruntled 1% is louder than the content 99% at this point (not an exact statistic).

Yea that is usually how it goes

I do believe that 3DR is doing their very best which has fallen short in a few areas.

We (me included) often act inappropriately out of frustration. We live in a world that is get it now, next day, instant email response, etc.

Not really a good thing in the end.

 

[Earldgrayjr]

You are speaking without knowledge, and making assumptions that are flat wrong. I started this process with the best of attitudes. Go look at my "finally!!" thread.

I barked at nobody. I calmly detailed what was happening and spent the time to look into the technical details. I don't consider it a requirement that I be happy no matter how I am treated.

I asked questions respectfully multiple times and waited days and weeks, and didn't get answers. And still asked respectful questions through today. And I still haven't gotten answers, or much but denial.

I also have an investment that doesn't operate and only did for one flight I have proven it is not my fault it has a problem, though I had to prove that with numerous interactions (guilty until proven innocent) and the STILL won't actually a knowledge it, only that their original assertion was wrong. I might as well be dealing with lawyers. BTW, their original assertion was not in any way backed by the facts. Not even a little bit. But I had to prove it. Explain to me how you feel when THAT happens to you.

I have been hung up on (automatically) after 20 minutes 4 times now (including today) and 3DR can't give me any idea when I can get parts to fix the Solo now broken for going on two weeks. I asked again today. They can give me NO idea.... Really?

I have shown them a glitch with 1.0.5 (not my word, but rather in the logs) and they will NOT even respond to it. Not "we are looking into it". And they Do respond, they just ignore those specific questions. Over and over.

Look. I have worked with DJI for years. I know what slow is. I know what communications issues are. I have also defended 3DR, and in fact have done so here. My expectations are just not that high.

I was also one that ordered early and got it late. Though slightly annoyed, I made no stink with the BB issue, and have been fully willing to cut them slack on a new product.

Just don't lie to me. Don't try to pin your problems on me. Don't clam up and avoid me (which they are) when I show you what is actually happening. And don't hang me out to dry by leaving me with a new product that doesn't work, and no way to fix it.

Whether it registers with you or not. They are knowingly deciding to put parts in new machines rather than fix units of existing customers with problems out of the gate. That is a choice....

If that is your idea of world class service, or even how a customer should be treated at all, then you simply have a MUCH lower bar of customer service excellence than I do.

Good luck. I sincerely hope you have a good experience, and I wish you all the luck in the world.

 

[RichWest]

All's well that ends well...I leave it at that.

 

[SteveMyers75]

3DR has made it clear that the 30 day period doesn't start UNTIL you receive your gimbal.

I would venture to guess this only for those that ordered their Solo and Gimbal at the same time from 3DR's Website.

BB won't even let you Pre-Order the gimbal at the same time you order a Solo..

 

[RyanG]

This is part of the reason I ordered direct from 3DR. IF I do decide to bring it back I want to go right through the manufacturer. Worse case I could always file a dispute with my bank if they don't want to give me my money back.

Ryan G

 

[GoodnNuff]

I would venture to guess this only for those that ordered their Solo and Gimbal at the same time from 3DR's Website.

BB won't even let you Pre-Order the gimbal at the same time you order a Solo..

No 3DR has made it very clear that regardless of where or how you purchased your Solo, the 30 day guarantee will not start until you recieve your gimbal. This can easily be researched or you may contact 3DR for verification.

And as an aside, I can't understand why anyone who claims to have "worked with DJI for years" is whining over the responses they've recieved from 3DR. Nor can I understand why someone who has "worked with DJI for years" continues to compare their Solo to a Blade 350QX...

 

[DodgeP]

I'm glad someone said that. Even though I had problems and still have some issues with Solo you won't find me bashing Solo or 3DR. Solo is a different tool that I have at my disposal. I've been all 3DR since I got my Solo.. Flying my Inspire 1 all week though. I really need the gimbal though (not a complaint).

 

[SteveMyers75]

No 3DR has made it very clear that regardless of where or how you purchased your Solo, the 30 day guarantee will not start until you recieve your gimbal. This can easily be researched or you may contact 3DR for verification.

And as an aside, I can't understand why anyone who claims to have "worked with DJI for years" is whining over the responses they've recieved from 3DR. Nor can I understand why someone who has "worked with DJI for years" continues to compare their Solo to a Blade 350QX...

About the 30-Day and the Gimbal, that's great news!
To "lock it in", I just sent a detailed message to 3DR and will post up their official answer.

And just to be clear to everyone else, I'm not the one that has "worked with DJI for years".
(Heck, I've never heard of DJI before. I had to Google it to know how to spell it....)
My other "gizmos that fly" (as Sarah B most eloquently put it) are nitro powered..

 

[Earldgrayjr]

I can't understand why anyone who claims to have "worked with DJI for years" is whining over the responses they've recieved from 3DR. Nor can I understand why someone who has "worked with DJI for years" continues to compare their Solo to a Blade 350QX...

Let me clear that up for you....

The person I was dealing with at 3DR tried REALLY hard (in spite of the data) to pin the problem on me, and just leave it at that. Specifically they said I pushed the pause button, causing the craft to go into ALT HOLD (somehow) causing a crash.

The reality is that the craft was hovering at 18 feet with almost zero stick inputs and "tumbled" down in less than a second...

Again, I uploaded the log files immediately, and before speaking with anyone. I knew what (outwardly anyway) happened, and I explained it several times. Since the ffirst day, I have politely asked "what about ALT HOLD would cause the craft to tumble?

I wanted to know this, so it wouldn't happen again on the next flight after replacing the bad motors...

I also explained that regardless of the cause, I wanted to get back operating as quickly as possible...

I just kept getting back the EXACT same response, ignoring my questions.... When I called (and got through) I was refered back to the same thread, and recieved (again) the same response.

I took the time to figure out Mission Planner and see for myselff, and was able to show that I didn't in fact push the pause button, and showed that to 3DR. What I got back next was that the Solo spontaneously went into ALT HOLD due to "GPS degredation" and I crashed it....

I formulated VERY specific questions at this point (which ar in the thread) based on the fact that the Solo became Ready to Arm with 10 satellites and an hdop of 1.6, and never had less than that.

I asked which variables and specific values caused the Solo to go into ALT HOLD? And since I had very little stick input, what specifically caused the craft to tumble down violently?

I got back (again) that the Solo went into ALT HOLD and I crashed it...

I called (had to do it twice as I got hung up on after waiting 20 mintes) and spoke to a supervisor. I calmly explained my dilema, and what I was after including why. He said he would have someone else look at the logs and get back to me. He also offered to give me the motors free of charge. I was very thankful and hopefull. Note: I could not get technical questions answered on the phone, but rather kept getting refered back to the email system.

I next recieved an email from the same tech I had originally exchanged with, which simply said ge had looked at it again and asked a colleague, and he was right. He didn't answer any of the previous questions or explain any reasoning.

I am admittedly getting frustrated at this point, but I then painstakingly seperated out the questions (which were interspersed in my repeated explanation) and sent them back, pointing out that they had not been answered, and asked again for specific answers to specific questions.

I received the same EXACT answer back.

I then received an email from someone new explaining that they have no mortors to give me, and that I need to just "order them on the website" and that they can't give me any dates as to when they will become available.

Of course anyone familiar with the website knows that you can't order motor pods there....

I called 3DR again, asking how I get the motors. They then told me the motors are all being poput into new units and therefore replacemnts are backordered (yes, he actually said that) and he could give me no ETA for their arrival, but told me when they arrive I might be able to order them on the website, but also couldn't confirm that.

I asked if I could just arrange to get them now... and reminded him that 3DR actually said they were giving them to me... He couldn't confirm that either. I asked him if we could speak to the same supervisor I spoke to earlier... He said that isn't possible right now. I asked if I could just arrange to get motors coming ASAP and figure it out later? He said that was also not possible. He suggested calling back sometime late next week, and seeing if they might know more about when motors would come...

So... I have $1700+ (not counting FPVLR, sunshade, etc.) invested in something that doesn't work, and I don't know when I can get it working. I can also get no support from the manufacturer, nor any answers as to why it failed. When I do get the replacement parts, the craft could very easily do the exact same thing the very first time I fire it up, and in fact I see no reason why it won't. If/when that happens, I am staring at the same process, cost. and wait..... I know you may not believe this, but keep in mind I KNOW something went wrong with the craft, and that it shouldn't have, just not specifically why it did what it did.... I have no way of knoing that without 3DR, and they aren't responding to the questions.

Now... lets contrast that with DJI. DJI has notoriously slow service. I completely agree. They do however have parts available, including for the P3, and they have good phone support. When I call them, I am able to go over logs with a live and knowledgeable person. I have seen anomalies with that system as well, but at least I can understand the problems with them so that I can avoid catastrophies... And I can also get motors, props, etc. so can get things fixed.

As I said before, though this isn't even beta, I considered it as that, and am fully willing to cut 3DR slack regarding technical problems as well as growing pains. I am also absolutely not a DJI fanboy, and in fact, I have been (recently) accused by Phantom fanboys off being a 3DR fanboy... The truth is, I want SO much to believe in 3DR, based on various factors, including open source.

I can't however leave them completely unaccountable, while they also show me repeatedly they are apparently not interested in knowing what is actually wrong, and have them leave me with nothing but a $1700 hole in my pocket to show for it, with not even an ETA for getting the product that I paid for operating, that has been down now for nearly 2 weeks...

At this point I could return it and get a new one faster than I could get the parts to "maybe" get this one working... I have thought that several times knowing what I do now, and considered that, as that path would at least be more of a sure thing to get an operating unit. I finally came to the conclusion that I have other camera platforms that work for what I "need" and maybe I should just sit this one out, as an "extra battery" that comes sometime later is just not that big an enticement...

Hopefully things change. I sincerely hope so. And of course, your experience, and mileage may vary. Everyone gets to make their own decisions. Either way, my birthday will still come....

PS: I also asked 3DR (via email) to confirm the 30 day money back gaurantee starts after the gimbal arrives for those that preordered the two together (like me) as it was pertinent to my situation. I haven't received a reply yet, but I will share the response here if/when I get it..


Good Luck

 

[GoodnNuff]

Let me clear that up for you....

The person I was dealing with at 3DR tried REALLY hard (in spite of the data) to pin the problem on me, and just leave it at that. Specifically they said I pushed the pause button, causing the craft to go into ALT HOLD (somehow) causing a crash.

The reality is that the craft was hovering at 18 feet with almost zero stick inputs and "tumbled" down in less than a second...

Again, I uploaded the log files immediately, and before speaking with anyone. I knew what (outwardly anyway) happened, and I explained it several times. Since the ffirst day, I have politely asked "what about ALT HOLD would cause the craft to tumble?

I wanted to know this, so it wouldn't happen again on the next flight after replacing the bad motors...

I also explained that regardless of the cause, I wanted to get back operating as quickly as possible...

I just kept getting back the EXACT same response, ignoring my questions.... When I called (and got through) I was refered back to the same thread, and recieved (again) the same response.

I took the time to figure out Mission Planner and see for myselff, and was able to show that I didn't in fact push the pause button, and showed that to 3DR. What I got back next was that the Solo spontaneously went into ALT HOLD due to "GPS degredation" and I crashed it....

I formulated VERY specific questions at this point (which ar in the thread) based on the fact that the Solo became Ready to Arm with 10 satellites and an hdop of 1.6, and never had less than that.

I asked which variables and specific values caused the Solo to go into ALT HOLD? And since I had very little stick input, what specifically caused the craft to tumble down violently?

I got back (again) that the Solo went into ALT HOLD and I crashed it...

I called (had to do it twice as I got hung up on after waiting 20 mintes) and spoke to a supervisor. I calmly explained my dilema, and what I was after including why. He said he would have someone else look at the logs and get back to me. He also offered to give me the motors free of charge. I was very thankful and hopefull. Note: I could not get technical questions answered on the phone, but rather kept getting refered back to the email system.

I next recieved an email from the same tech I had originally exchanged with, which simply said ge had looked at it again and asked a colleague, and he was right. He didn't answer any of the previous questions or explain any reasoning.

I am admittedly getting frustrated at this point, but I then painstakingly seperated out the questions (which were interspersed in my repeated explanation) and sent them back, pointing out that they had not been answered, and asked again for specific answers to specific questions.

I received the same EXACT answer back.

I then received an email from someone new explaining that they have no mortors to give me, and that I need to just "order them on the website" and that they can't give me any dates as to when they will become available.

Of course anyone familiar with the website knows that you can't order motor pods there....

I called 3DR again, asking how I get the motors. They then told me the motors are all being poput into new units and therefore replacemnts are backordered (yes, he actually said that) and he could give me no ETA for their arrival, but told me when they arrive I might be able to order them on the website, but also couldn't confirm that.

I asked if I could just arrange to get them now... and reminded him that 3DR actually said they were giving them to me... He couldn't confirm that either. I asked him if we could speak to the same supervisor I spoke to earlier... He said that isn't possible right now. I asked if I could just arrange to get motors coming ASAP and figure it out later? He said that was also not possible. He suggested calling back sometime late next week, and seeing if they might know more about when motors would come...

So... I have $1700+ (not counting FPVLR, sunshade, etc.) invested in something that doesn't work, and I don't know when I can get it working. I can also get no support from the manufacturer, nor any answers as to why it failed. When I do get the replacement parts, the craft could very easily do the exact same thing the very first time I fire it up, and in fact I see no reason why it won't. If/when that happens, I am staring at the same process, cost. and wait..... I know you may not believe this, but keep in mind I KNOW something went wrong with the craft, and that it shouldn't have, just not specifically why it did what it did.... I have no way of knoing that without 3DR, and they aren't responding to the questions.

Now... lets contrast that with DJI. DJI has notoriously slow service. I completely agree. They do however have parts available, including for the P3, and they have good phone support. When I call them, I am able to go over logs with a live and knowledgeable person. I have seen anomalies with that system as well, but at least I can understand the problems with them so that I can avoid catastrophies... And I can also get motors, props, etc. so can get things fixed.

As I said before, though this isn't even beta, I considered it as that, and am fully willing to cut 3DR slack regarding technical problems as well as growing pains. I am also absolutely not a DJI fanboy, and in fact, I have been (recently) accused by Phantom fanboys off being a 3DR fanboy... The truth is, I want SO much to believe in 3DR, based on various factors, including open source.

I can't however leave them completely unaccountable, while they also show me repeatedly they are apparently not interested in knowing what is actually wrong, and have them leave me with nothing but a $1700 hole in my pocket to show for it, with not even an ETA for getting the product that I paid for operating, that has been down now for nearly 2 weeks...

At this point I could return it and get a new one faster than I could get the parts to "maybe" get this one working... I have thought that several times knowing what I do now, and considered that, as that path would at least be more of a sure thing to get an operating unit. I finally came to the conclusion that I have other camera platforms that work for what I "need" and maybe I should just sit this one out, as an "extra battery" that comes sometime later is just not that big an enticement...

Hopefully things change. I sincerely hope so. And of course, your experience, and mileage may vary. Everyone gets to make their own decisions. Either way, my birthday will still come....

PS: I also asked 3DR (via email) to confirm the 30 day money back gaurantee starts after the gimbal arrives for those that preordered the two together (like me) as it was pertinent to my situation. I haven't received a reply yet, but I will share the response here if/when I get it..


Good Luck

Gosh, I asked about DJI and Blade, you started the essay with the statement that you'd clear that up. I'll have to read it again to see if I can find a connection.

Yes, I understand your frustration. I was there for the first 10 days I had Solo #1, got it replaced and have been very happy. I understand what you are going through. It would be quicker to return your Solo, get a new one, than to wait for a replacement motor. I would simply return it.

It is the other things you say that I question.

 

[Earldgrayjr]

Gosh, I asked about DJI and Blade, you started the essay with the statement that you'd clear that up. I'll have to read it again to see if I can find a connection.

Yes, I understand your frustration. I was there for the first 10 days I had Solo #1, got it replaced and have been very happy. I understand what you are going through. It would be quicker to return your Solo, get a new one, than to wait for a replacement motor. I would simply return it.

It is the other things you say that I question.

Blade? You question what?

As for DJI, I have waited a month for a DJI repair, but I knew that going in. I took a calculated risk, and in fact got the shot.

This was 20ft up, 30ft away in a hover, was not my fault, and I have no ETA for a repair. I don't have problems with things going wrong. Don't leave me hanging out to dry. Again, that is a choice they are making at a high level.

Are you saying that if you knew going in you would get a product that doesn't work, be blamed for it, have to prove your innocence beyond doubt, then be instantly ignored, mislead (go buy motors on the site) left with no fix, and still have no path or ETA on fixing it, you would be happy?

Or is it simpler than that, and you are you just calling me a liar?

 

[Earldgrayjr]

z

This is no different than any other business.. Think about the PS3, the Xbox 360 time frame, the Wii...
They are only going to produce as many as they know they are going to sell, nothing more. Otherwise they run the risk of sitting on inventory , paying warehouse space, etc etc. the costs add up more than you can imagine.
Parts turn in to quads , turn in to Money on the books. If they dont order parts to build, that cash is in the bank.

The benefit to that is two fold. The other being artificial demand. There could have been less than 200 solos in the wild when they shipped. No way of knowing. By purposefully keeping inventory relatively low they drove up demand. Granted the pre orders are in a sub category themselves.
Look at how many threads pop up on here when best buys in the area get 1-2 units. They sell out immediately.
People want what they cant get, much like me wanting Rachel McAdams

Except in all the cases you mentioned (excluding Rachel McAdams) they had a way to get customers with problems out of the gate back going and quickly... In those cases the answer was to replace the entire unit, which is certainly an option here. In the case of 3DR, they are making a choice not to do anything for some undetermined amount of time. They could mitigate it if the chose to. They choose not to. At least in my case.

We do agree it is their choice, though I would add not taking care of customers problems (especially with a new product, early on, and if your problems are actually their problems) creates quickly diminishing returns.

Do you hear much lately about bent iPhone 6's? No... Did they change the design? No..... They replaced them... Quietly and quickly..... And THAT is how it is done for everything from $100 RC parts, to the APRS transponder i just replaced, to the Echo I just got, to the bent iPhone I had to have replaced... Do it right, and you have a customer for life... At least in my case.... Do it wrong, and you lose people for a long time....

Given this is a new platform, it is early, and in a segment they are trying create as "simpler" video drones, I don't think it is a wise choice, or one (as a customer) that I agree with.

In the end it is however their choice..

 

[Ian [P13]]

Nope. Mine had 10 sats and an hdop NEVER over 1.6. In open space with no obstructions.

I am experienced, with 30+ years in electronics, avionics, computers, and beta testing everything you can imagine.

The HDOP isn't the trigger for the switch to Alt Hold, it's only used in the pre-arm check, the sAcc (speed accuracy) from the uBlox is now used as this is far more reliable than HDOP, by the time HDOP is bad you're already in trouble.

Don't start the x years of experience line, that's the usual line from douches on RC Groups, it's irrelevant to a debate. Given software is always changing, what was relevant knowledge even 18 months ago, no longer applies now.

The error you had is a GPS related error, it'll have been picked up by the EKF (Google: Extended Kalman Filter), all the sensors feed into this logic.

If you download the log dataflash log file from that flight which you can do via SSH (don't ask me for the full procedure as I've not done it myself, but I know you can), then I'll have a detailed look in Mission Planner and ask some other experienced people to do so as well. Dataflash logs are easier to work with when looking at an incident in detail...

What I will say is I've seen 3DR operate for a good 18 months, maybe more and they've never looked to get out of an incident which was "their fault" ever, period.

 

[Rodney Johnson]

Don't start the x years of experience line, that's the usual line from douches on RC Groups, it's irrelevant to a debate. Given software is always changing, what was relevant knowledge even 18 months ago, no longer applies now.

The error you had is a GPS related error, it'll have been picked up by the EKF (Google: Extended Kalman Filter), all the sensors feed into this logic.

If you download the log dataflash log file from that flight which you can do via SSH (don't ask me for the full procedure as I've not done it myself, but I know you can), then I'll have a detailed look in Mission Planner and ask some other experienced people to do so as well. Dataflash logs are easier to work with when looking at an incident in detail...

What I will say is I've seen 3DR operate for a good 18 months, maybe more and they've never looked to get out of an incident which was "their fault" ever, period.[/QUOTE]

What,, I have 40 years of experience in everything RC,,, but, , that don't make me an expert, When it comes to this hobby, , I can tell you from 40 years of experience. .. NO ONE IS AN EXPERT.... it's always changing, ,

Besides ,, that's my line,,, I have more experience
Can't we all just get along,, I love that one..

 

[Rodney Johnson]

Oh

Back to the original post Starter...
Yes,, 3DR does follow through with there return promise.

I just Recieved an email from 3DR to print a Fedx label to ship my Solo back for a FULL refund...
The whole process was about a week..
So it will be another week to process and a few days to see my refund...
So as I said before, , Relax your not the only one 3DR is dealing with, ,,
I'm waiting for solo 2.0 with a new gimbal...
It's coming....
Have a great day. ..

 

[Earldgrayjr]

Don't start the x years of experience line, that's the usual line from douches on RC Groups, it's irrelevant to a debate. Given software is always changing, what was relevant knowledge even 18 months ago, no longer applies now.

The error you had is a GPS related error, it'll have been picked up by the EKF (Google: Extended Kalman Filter), all the sensors feed into this logic.

If you download the log dataflash log file from that flight which you can do via SSH (don't ask me for the full procedure as I've not done it myself, but I know you can), then I'll have a detailed look in Mission Planner and ask some other experienced people to do so as well. Dataflash logs are easier to work with when looking at an incident in detail...

What I will say is I've seen 3DR operate for a good 18 months, maybe more and they've never looked to get out of an incident which was "their fault" ever, period.

What,, I have 40 years of experience in everything RC,,, but, , that don't make me an expert, When it comes to this hobby, , I can tell you from 40 years of experience. .. NO ONE IS AN EXPERT.... it's always changing, ,

Besides ,, that's my line,,, I have more experience
Can't we all just get along,, I love that one..

Responding to both posts...

First... I was responding not with I have more experience with RC and therefore I am right, but rather I have considerable experience dealing with small companies and being on the leading edge, beta, etc.. I have stated here and specifcally to 3DR, I am not an expert on this system.... (though I am a very quick study ) The question was: Are my expectations to high? I sincerely don't think they are.

As I have stated several times now. Even though not officially that, and we all payed for our units, I have considered this beta from the start. My issue is NOT that something failed. It is what happened AFTER the failure, and the "choices" that 3DR continues to make in that regard.

Case in point is the flash logs. 3DR doesn't have the flash logs. The determination they made was with the tlogs, and they originally said I pushed the pause button. Looking at the logs, you can clearly see that wasn't the case. When I (politely) pointed that out, they didn't acknowledge anything, just came back with that it was "GPS degredation". When I responded asking about the details of that, they clammed up, responding to emails, but specifically avoiding those questions, over.. and over...

To recap: What ACTUALLY happened is that I had just taken off again after repositioning the camera, and had forgotten to start it reccording again. I got the Solo in a nice open space and tweaked it to be in a good spot, as I wanted to look at the tablet, and see if OSD would show me the GoPro wasn't recording.

The Solo then tumbled dropping 18 feet straight down going side over side and end over end in about 1 second. Luckily it landed in a thicket of blackberry and ivy, never actually touching the ground.

I of course sent the tlog files, and the response was that I put it into ALT HOLD and crashed it... I (politely) explained that I was giving very little stick input at the time of the crash, and assuming I had pushed pause (which I was sure I didn't but didn't know which input that was at the time) asked the question: What specific action I took caused the Solo to tumble straight down?

What I got back was the exact same statement. I then got into the logs and showed that i had in fact not pushed pause, and relayed that to 3DR. The reponse i recieved said that the Solo went into ALT HOLD due to "GPS degredation" (with 10 satellites and an hdop of 1.6) and I crashed it...

I started off my email explaining that I wanted to understand what was happening, but wanted it the understanding to be a parallel conversation, and my primary goal was getting the unit operational and only then (again) politely asked the question: What specific inputs I gave crashed the unit? Radio silence....

After several days, I called 3DR and talked to a manager. The manager said they would have someone else look at the logs and get back to me, would get motors coming to me quickly, and would also sell me motors just in case the motors were a result of the problem instead of the cause.

I responded, politely but adamantly asking for answers to my questions. I even broke them out from the previous narative and listed them as bullets....

What I next got back was an email from the same person that made the original (two) determinations, saying he had looked at it, and asked a colleague, and he was right, repeating the exact same statement.... And specifically not answering my questions.

Since then, I politely reminded them I was still waiting for answers to my questions... Response? Crickets..

I next got an email from a new 3DR person, that said my RMA had been approved, but there motors are not available, they can't tell me when they will be available, but to go order them on the website.... As we all know, that can't be done...

I called on Saturday asking about the motors, and asking to speak to the same manager again. I was very polite, as I have been all along. I was told that speaking to the manager was not possible, and that they have no motors and cannot tell me when they will, though I could "call back sometime late next week" when they might have some idea...

All this is in context of waiting a long time for the bird, and getting hung up on by their phone system repeatedly.

Again... My issue isn't something broke and I expect perfection. My issue is what happened after it broke, and what 3DR is NOT doing about it, after numerous interactions. This has gone on now for weeks, and I have no response, and no ETA of any kind for a repair. Clearly.. they just aren't that in to me as a customer....

Somebody can try to say the reason they aren't treating me well is something I said or did, or that I am lying or exagerating, but that just isn't the case, and having dealt with numerous people, with most of it in writing, the evidence is there that supports that.

Sorry for unloading a bit... but I am frustrated, getting a bit neat up on, and started off the process as a fan.

I do appreciate your response. I also don't doubt that something there in the logs will tell us what actually happened. I have in fact been trying to get this info from 3DR for weeks now. I havent downloaded the dataflash logs to date, as I understood it takes quite a long time (hours) wasn;t sure it would give me answers, and I was hoping 3DR might at least tell me what I am looking for. I had considered it though.

Currently I have the unit all packed up and ready to go back to 3DR, and am waiting for a return number, etc.

If I don't get that information today or they somehow come back with some reasonable solution (or path forward) I may unpack it and download the flash, if nothing else, to satisfy my curiosity, and since I will very likely be dealing with the PixHawk2 again sometime.. If I do, I will upload them and link to them here. I have already uploaded the tlog file to the "Finally!!" thread.

I also very much appreciate your offer to look at the files.. Do you know the specific parameter(s) I am looking for?

Thank You Again
Earl