Failed first 2 flight attempted

[Ryan Farnes]

Solo is not meant to flown indoors, in between, behind, under things.....unless you want to do it manually and it would probably do it well.
I have not had any issues with GPS but I also fly in the open and at distances. Get some practice in manual, then fly it where you want.
Find some information on Solo fly aways....Crickets
Flyaways with Phantoms?? Hundreds!

Question: If Solo is in Fly: Manual and it loses connection with the controller, does it do an automatic return to home (assuming you got Satellite lock prior to takeoff)?

What if there is no GPS at the time of the disconnect from the controller? Will it just be in a manual drift and rise to the RTH altitude and try to reestablish GPS to then return to the start of the flight? (again assuming you get sat lock before takeoff)

 

[Maddog]

Yes, anytime Solo loses contact with the controller it will RTL.

Your 2nd question is a really good one. I don't know if Solo can get back home with no GPS connection. Certainly it stores the coordinates of the launch point, but how would it get back with no GPS connection? Hopefully somebody who knows will chime in.

 

[Ryan Farnes]

Yes, anytime Solo loses contact with the controller it will RTL.

Your 2nd question is a really good one. I don't know if Solo can get back home with no GPS connection. Certainly it stores the coordinates of the launch point, but how would it get back with no GPS connection? Hopefully somebody who knows will chime in.

My first GPS disconnect with Solo, it went into Fly: Manual, and I hit return to home, but it was drifting, so as it ascended to the return to home altitude, it drifting into a tree. I blame my own unfamiliarity with Solo for that. (and their promotional videos )

So, I assume that it will rise to altitude and then restore GPS there to return to home. I've only had GPS issues when it is near trees. Above them and never an issue.

The concern I have about flying manual is that the connection to Solo from the controller is seemingly tenuous at times and unless I'm within about 100 feet, I'd worry about it dropping the connection somehow and then Solo will simply rise to return to home and try to reestablish GPS, but it might be right next to or under some trees. I'll have to dial into settings to see if I can figure it out.

 

[Maddog]

My first GPS disconnect with Solo, it went into Fly: Manual, and I hit return to home, but it was drifting, so as it ascended to the return to home altitude, it drifting into a tree. I blame my own unfamiliarity with Solo for that. (and their promotional videos )

So, I assume that it will rise to altitude and then restore GPS there to return to home. I've only had GPS issues when it is near trees. Above them and never an issue.

The concern I have about flying manual is that the connection to Solo from the controller is seemingly tenuous at times and unless I'm within about 100 feet, I'd worry about it dropping the connection somehow and then Solo will simply rise to return to home and try to reestablish GPS, but it might be right next to or under some trees. I'll have to dial into settings to see if I can figure it out.

Interesting...on a related note I just got the FPVLR antenna and it works much better than stock. I fly in the Phoenix metro area, so long distance isn't a priority, but having the ability to overpower other wifi signals, etc. is. So far, it's doing that well.

 

[Chip Luck]

First, this is NOT to boast on my experience here, but after 20+ years of designing and building flight simulators for the military, which combines development of both hardware and software.

Full flight simulators incorporate most of all design disciplines, hardware and software and can be complicated, however if you break down each sub-component or assembly, it is not that difficult. It can be a project engineers nightmare at times. Some task includes design of all D/C and A/C power distribution, Input/Output (I/O) circuitry including Digital Inputs and Outputs (D/IO), Analog Inputs and Outputs (A/IO), large motion bases, control loaders, embedded processors, integration, et. all. This is along with generating a wire list with 8,000+ wire runs, D/IO and A/IO (shielded!), along with grounding. Now 'grounding' is an acquired art and can be quite complicated, you have all these individual grounds that need to be tied together, somewhere at certain points, for example, the D/C power supplies have their own separate ground shared with the I/O system. Then you have the main's, the A/C power that supplies the whole system...

Now where am I going with this? The last company and project I was on, all the A/IO lines, in particular the ones running from the flight control stick and throttle assemblies, were not run in a shielded cable = Immediate red-flag! Software said "it works, but we had to software filter the inputs by dropping a few LSB's..", yes you would have to with all that EMI running around a mock-up fighter aircraft simulator with un-shielded analog input wires running everywhere, even tied along the main A/C power harness!

Now, back to Solo. After the last update GPS lock _is_ working a lot quicker. Now, here is the data point/item:. As soon as I hit Fly, the Controller warns "GPS lock fail...", then a few seconds later the warning on the Controller display goes away and we are ready to fly. I can do this over and over...

Summary: The Solo main board is experiencing EMI input interference from the Flight Motors, period.

Fix: First I'm going to install bypass/de-coupling capacitors at the Flight Motor feed point, then going to run shielded cable from the Flight Motor pods' to the Main Board where needed. Think about it if your a fellow engineer, what would cause that data point to occur if no EMI was present... there would be none.

Will let you know how it goes as I love a challenge, at least this device does not weight 20 tons!

Cheers

 

[Maddog]

First, this is NOT to boast on my experience here, but after 20+ years of designing and building flight simulators for the military, which combines development of both hardware and software.

Full flight simulators incorporate most of all design disciplines, hardware and software and can be complicated, however if you break down each sub-component or assembly, it is not that difficult. It can be a project engineers nightmare at times. Some task includes design of all D/C and A/C power distribution, Input/Output (I/O) circuitry including Digital Inputs and Outputs (D/IO), Analog Inputs and Outputs (A/IO), large motion bases, control loaders, embedded processors, integration, et. all. This is along with generating a wire list with 8,000+ wire runs, D/IO and A/IO (shielded!), along with grounding. Now 'grounding' is an acquired art and can be quite complicated, you have all these individual grounds that need to be tied together, somewhere at certain points, for example, the D/C power supplies have their own separate ground shared with the I/O system. Then you have the main's, the A/C power that supplies the whole system...

Now where am I going with this? The last company and project I was on, all the A/IO lines, in particular the ones running from the flight control stick and throttle assemblies, were not run in a shielded cable = Immediate red-flag! Software said "it works, but we had to software filter the inputs by dropping a few LSB's..", yes you would have to with all that EMI running around a mock-up fighter aircraft simulator with un-shielded analog input wires running everywhere, even tied along the main A/C power harness!

Now, back to Solo. After the last update GPS lock _is_ working a lot quicker. Now, here is the data point/item:. As soon as I hit Fly, the Controller warns "GPS lock fail...", then a few seconds later the warning on the Controller display goes away and we are ready to fly. I can do this over and over...

Summary: The Solo main board is experiencing EMI input interference from the Flight Motors, period.

Fix: First I'm going to install bypass/de-coupling capacitors at the Flight Motor feed point, then going to run shielded cable from the Flight Motor pods' to the Main Board where needed. Think about it if your a fellow engineer, what would cause that data point to occur if no EMI was present... there would be none.

Will let you know how it goes as I love a challenge, at least this device does not weight 20 tons!

Cheers

Chip, thanks for your input. There is no substitute for experience!
I have never seen that message on my controller. Does that mean I don't have the same issue you do? Are you saying you're going to replace the wiring from the motors to the main board?

Keep us posted! By the way, are you an electrical engineer? I've been looking for one.

 

[Earldgrayjr]

I started with a Hubsan and moved up to a 450 I built, then a hex I built (but could never get stable so I scrapped it). I wouldnt call myself an expert pilot, but I am comfortable in manual mode, and have been flying off and on for over 2 years now. I got tired of tinkering with an aerial video platform and wanted something stable that I could record with reliably.

I've got less than 3 hours of flight time on my Solo, and it literally just fell out of the sky on the 10th. Response from 3dr is #1 motor malfunction. Then they asked for all the logs on the Solo, so I spent 90mins pulling the last 20 logs and sending them in. Haven't heard anything back after a couple days now.

I went with solo over phantom because the support and the future looks good with them, however, having a crash on the 7th flight due to a motor failure, is a little unnerving.

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I had the exact same experience on my second flight..... In my case the logs were inconclusive, but I saw what happened, and it just tumbled down in a couple seconds. Mine landed in some soft bushes, and after that a motor was dead.

In the end, 3DR did the right thing. They don't always get there immediatedly, but they seem to in the end...

 

[Earldgrayjr]

Question: If Solo is in Fly: Manual and it loses connection with the controller, does it do an automatic return to home (assuming you got Satellite lock prior to takeoff)?

What if there is no GPS at the time of the disconnect from the controller? Will it just be in a manual drift and rise to the RTH altitude and try to reestablish GPS to then return to the start of the flight? (again assuming you get sat lock before takeoff)

If it loses GPS it will RTH. If it has no GPS and loses connection, it will land where it is.

 

[Jubalr]

First, this is NOT to boast on my experience here, but after 20+ years of designing and building flight simulators for the military, which combines development of both hardware and software.

Full flight simulators incorporate most of all design disciplines, hardware and software and can be complicated, however if you break down each sub-component or assembly, it is not that difficult. It can be a project engineers nightmare at times. Some task includes design of all D/C and A/C power distribution, Input/Output (I/O) circuitry including Digital Inputs and Outputs (D/IO), Analog Inputs and Outputs (A/IO), large motion bases, control loaders, embedded processors, integration, et. all. This is along with generating a wire list with 8,000+ wire runs, D/IO and A/IO (shielded!), along with grounding. Now 'grounding' is an acquired art and can be quite complicated, you have all these individual grounds that need to be tied together, somewhere at certain points, for example, the D/C power supplies have their own separate ground shared with the I/O system. Then you have the main's, the A/C power that supplies the whole system...

Now where am I going with this? The last company and project I was on, all the A/IO lines, in particular the ones running from the flight control stick and throttle assemblies, were not run in a shielded cable = Immediate red-flag! Software said "it works, but we had to software filter the inputs by dropping a few LSB's..", yes you would have to with all that EMI running around a mock-up fighter aircraft simulator with un-shielded analog input wires running everywhere, even tied along the main A/C power harness!

Now, back to Solo. After the last update GPS lock _is_ working a lot quicker. Now, here is the data point/item:. As soon as I hit Fly, the Controller warns "GPS lock fail...", then a few seconds later the warning on the Controller display goes away and we are ready to fly. I can do this over and over...

Summary: The Solo main board is experiencing EMI input interference from the Flight Motors, period.

Fix: First I'm going to install bypass/de-coupling capacitors at the Flight Motor feed point, then going to run shielded cable from the Flight Motor pods' to the Main Board where needed. Think about it if your a fellow engineer, what would cause that data point to occur if no EMI was present... there would be none.

Will let you know how it goes as I love a challenge, at least this device does not weight 20 tons!

Cheers

Interesting Chip, I have been flying Solo since June and have never seen that message, and the only time I have lost GPS is when I took it to an area under cover to test it.

 

[Chip Luck]

Interesting Chip, I have been flying Solo since June and have never seen that message, and the only time I have lost GPS is when I took it to an area under cover to test it.

My Solo has a quite a few flight hours and _may_ have a couple of suspected/possibly worn motors on it. I also never had that particular issue come up on pre-flight, unless you pick up Solo to turn on the GoPro (pre-gimbal) and it would complain to have to re-acquire GPS fix, which IMHO is a bug. I can move my Garmin handheld GPS unit into any position post a GPS fix.

Why then just picking up Solo a few feet will cause a GPS loss or re-acquisition request for GPS lock from the Controller display at all? Software/Hardware integration, that's what...

Cheers

 

[Earldgrayjr]

My Solo has a quite a few flight hours and _may_ have a couple of suspected/possibly worn motors on it. I also never had that particular issue come up on pre-flight, unless you pick up Solo to turn on the GoPro (pre-gimbal) and it would complain to have to re-acquire GPS fix, which IMHO is a bug. I can move my Garmin handheld GPS unit into any position post a GPS fix.

Why then just picking up Solo a few feet will cause a GPS loss or re-acquisition request for GPS lock from the Controller display at all? Software/Hardware integration, that's what...

Cheers

Haven't seen the problem with two Solo's. From a troubleshooting perspective, I would also want to know what the software that is displaying the message is doing in the background to come up with it, before changing hardware. Especially since the problem is at least not common if not singular.

The Solo reaquiring GPS is not a bug. What Solo does with GPS (and therefore what it needs from it) is very different from your Garmin. Your Garmin telling you that you are on the adjacent road instead of the path, or the side road instead of the freeway is annoying. For Solo it would most likely mean a crash. Solo needs a much smaller and more steady HDOP (which is the case with reaquire).

It can either acknowledge reality, or take it's chances and hope the HDOP gets, or stays low. I prefer the way it does it, and after careful observation, I think taking your chances that GPS will either get or stay good again (without reporting an actual problem) is the underlying cause of many of the Phantom so called "Fly Away's"

 

[Chip Luck]

Haven't seen the problem with two Solo's. From a troubleshooting perspective, I would also want to know what the software that is displaying the message is doing in the background to come up with it, before changing hardware. Especially since the problem is at least not common if not singular.

The Solo reacquiring GPS is not a bug. What Solo does with GPS (and therefore what it needs from it) is very different from your Garmin. Your Garmin telling you that you are on the adjacent road instead of the path, or the side road instead of the freeway is annoying. For Solo it would most likely mean a crash. Solo needs a much smaller and more steady HDOP (which is the case with reaquire).

It can either acknowledge reality, or take it's chances and hope the HDOP gets, or stays low. I prefer the way it does it, and after careful observation, I think taking your chances that GPS will either get or stay good again (without reporting an actual problem) is the underlying cause of many of the Phantom so called "Fly Away's"

With all due respect to all,

Solo re-acquiring a GPS fix by just picking it up IS a bug.

Now, along with pressing the 'Fly' button on the controller post pre-flight and just by starting the Flight Motors up and causing GPS acquisition error is also a BUG, period.

The usual Solo Controller pre-flight Level Alarms, Compass, Magnetic et. all, I can understand... however that is pre-flight. Once I hit Fly however I'll be danged with my experience [edit] it IS an integration issue as some Solo's appear to have it, some do not. Could be EMI, software or a hardware issue, who knows? It will take a person that can properly diagnose the issues under controlled conditions. I personally do not refer it as trouble-shooting, that is for a device that pretty much already works or post delivery. I still call it again at this point [edit] as a 3DR as system integration and debug issue. Released too soon and marketing busted engineering's behinds...

This issue, along with others... I however will still stand by 3DR that they can solve it, and will provide any data to pass along that will help them out, so be it.

Along with my now 8 low level fly-aways (never at altitude) in Fly mode, and always near the Home postilion. If any device looses it's reference, such as a UAS with a GPS fix, it should stop and perform fail-safe protocol - period.

Cheers

---

 

[Earldgrayjr]

With all due respect to all,

Solo re-acquiring a GPS fix by just picking it up IS a bug.

Now, along with pressing the 'Fly' button on the controller post pre-flight and just by starting the Flight Motors up and causing GPS acquisition error is also a BUG, period.

The usual Solo Controller pre-flight Level Alarms, Compass, Magnetic et. all, I can understand... however that is pre-flight. Once I hit Fly however I'll be danged with my experience it is NOT an integration issue. Could be EMI, software or a hardware issue, who knows? It will take a person that can properly to properly diagnose the issues under controlled conditions. I personally do not refer it as trouble-shooting, that is for a device that pretty much already works or post delivery. I still call it at this point for 3DR as system integration and debug. Released too soon and marketing busted engineering's behinds...

This issue, along with others... I stand by 3DR that they can solve it. And if I provide any data to pass along that will help them out, so be it.

Along with my now 8 low level fly-aways (never at altitude) in Fly mode, and always near the Home postilion. If any device looses it's reference, such as a UAS with a GPS fix, it should stop and perform fail-safe protocol - period.

Cheers

---

With all due respect to all.....

Just saying something is a bug, doesn't make it a bug. With regard to going to "fly" I understand why they are doing what they are doing, and I agree with what they are doing. They go to/back to fly based on meeting all the requirements in an algorithm. It doesn't matter if you just flew. All of the criteria have to do with accuracy over time. The other option would be to assume... I don't like them making assumptions.

As for losing GPS whan hitting the "Fly" button, that may be a bug, but I don't have that bug... And I have two Solo's. Could be a bug in a shoulder case? Or it could just be a problem. I guess the difference is, I wouldn't assume it is a bug, just because you have a problem. In the end, call it what you want, but I think calling a problem that only you have a "bug" is a stretch.

You can also not want to troubleshoot the [insert name of choice here] but unless someone does, it won't get resolved. If you don't want to be involved, then the other option is send it in... And what happens if it works for them (with a different tablet and software install)? That is why knowing why it is doing what it is doing is important to get it fixed as fast as possible.

As for your "8 low level fly aways". Your description makes it sound like they are a mystery? I hope you have looked at the logs, and now have an understanding at this point of what actually happened.. There is a reason (right or wrong) that Solo does everything it does. It ain't magic. The logs show every sensor/control input, every error, alarm, mode switch, motor output, etc. etc. The PixHawk/arducopter software is also well known, and 3DR is very forthcoming about the Solo specific setup and Linux apps. Together, they will tell you pretty clearly why Solo flew "away".

Obviously I haven't seen all the logs from crashes, and I have even "heard" of 3DR replacing a persons Solo/GoPro. But I have seen quite a few logs of reported fly always. Everything I have personally seen so far (that was originally deescribed as a fly away) is related to Solo going into Alt-Hold, and drifting iaway on the wind, or nto something, sometimes with the help off an operator that has lost orientation giving it a push with the sticks.

So what did the logs tell you on the 8 fly aways?

 

[Rex Barlow]

Personally, I think people should start out quad flying with something like a Syma X5C. Once they can fly that competently, then move up.

Starting on something like Solo is fine until something goes wrong- then what?

Of course this may be totally on Solo this time.

I had Syma X5C before I bought solo.. it helped lots..

 

[Maddog]

I had Syma X5C before I bought solo.. it helped lots..

The X5C was a lot of fun- I like the extra power of the X8C though.
I still fly the X8 once in a while when I don't feel like trotting out all the stuff for Solo.

 

[Cosber]

I thought the appeal of the Solo was to make it simple enough for even a monkey to fly it. I'm a testament to that. I flew a powered glider one time in 1981 (and crashed) and that is the extent of my remote control experience (though I am an expert with a TV remote). The first time I flew Solo, I handed it off to my 10 yr old granddaughter who zipped around like a pro. While I use the RTH exclusively to land, I have taken off and landed manually and it's a breeze. I honestly don't see any reason to spend the time or money practicing with a cheaper model.
Also wanted to note the GPS issue. I haven't been able to fly since the last update. I always had to wait awhile to connect. Tonight I finally got out and it connected well under a minute. Now I only have to find out what happened to the gimbal.

 

[Maddog]

I thought the appeal of the Solo was to make it simple enough for even a monkey to fly it. I'm a testament to that. I flew a powered glider one time in 1981 (and crashed) and that is the extent of my remote control experience (though I am an expert with a TV remote). The first time I flew Solo, I handed it off to my 10 yr old granddaughter who zipped around like a pro. While I use the RTH exclusively to land, I have taken off and landed manually and it's a breeze. I honestly don't see any reason to spend the time or money practicing with a cheaper model.
Also wanted to note the GPS issue. I haven't been able to fly since the last update. I always had to wait awhile to connect. Tonight I finally got out and it connected well under a minute. Now I only have to find out what happened to the gimbal.

The reason people practice with something cheaper is to develop the skill set to fly manually if the GPS automation fails. That's all..
Murphy's law dictates that such a failure will occur at the most dangerous, complex portion of a flight. Lots of YouTube videos showing unskilled pilots losing control after GPS loss. Usually they just fly into a building or a tree. I did see one where a girl flew a Solo into a bystander on the ground. I think he only lost one finger- not sure.

That being said, there is no reason you can't practice with Solo (instead of a cheapie) and learn the same skills. I was just afraid to do so with a $1,000 drone. I was ok when I crashed my $50 Syma- repeatedly..

Sorry for droning on so much..

 

[Cosber]

My issues with flying is fear. I lose signal often enough that I'm paranoid of flying it anywhere I wouldn't be able to retrieve it if it went down, or heaven forbid, it went someplace it shouldn't. Yes, it has always returned home on signal loss, but it's a computer and computers fail.

 

[Maddog]

My issues with flying is fear. I lose signal often enough that I'm paranoid of flying it anywhere I wouldn't be able to retrieve it if it went down, or heaven forbid, it went someplace it shouldn't. Yes, it has always returned home on signal loss, but it's a computer and computers fail.

You might want to consider an upgraded controller antenna. I just got the FPVLR and have not lost signal since them. Prior to that it was a regular occurrence- probably due to lots of WIFI here.

There is also a thread here about devices you can attach on Solo if it flys away to track it. I think it's called Marco Polo- they put them on dogs in case they run away.

 

[J R]

Got Marco Polo on my 3 birds. I love it. If you can get within 2 miles, you can find it. Fortunately, never had to use the tracker in a downed bird situation but I had wifey jump in the car and go hide them. Found 2 in twenty minutes. Didn't have a 3rd at the time. And best of all, no fees!

Jerry