Balloons can fly here but I can't?

[Nimbus Ninja]

I'm driving down I-4 in Orlando and all I can see are hot air balloons. I pulled up my 3DR app and all I see is controlled airspace.

I'm sure there's a logical explanation for why they can fly here and I can't, but also don't know what kind of license they need to fly those and what kind of hoops they have to jump through in order to fly in this area. Maybe it's just as much of a hassle for them as it us? Maybe not?

Also, Since balloons are manned and our drones are not, maybe that's a key difference. Just had me scratching my head that's all.

 

[jhallgren22]

If its anything like where I am, you are actually allowed to call the control tower/airport and request to be allowed to fly in the airspace. They have also said that they are trying to encourage people to call them, because they know that there are people flying in the airspace, and if you would like to they would at least like a phone call so they know the general area and can tell you if it is safe or not to fly there.

 

[indonesianpilot]

I never tried it. But what happen if you force to fly in that area? Is your drone cant even arming or what?

 

[jhallgren22]

Drone will fly but a warning comes up saying that it is your responsibility to check the local laws and such. Living within a 5 mile radius of an airport has required me to fly in the area for testing, but when i spoke to the tower i told them, and honestly, that i was not going to be flying more than 50' off the ground and they told me that that would be fine and that i don't have to call them anymore for flying that low in the field next to my house.

 

[Nimbus Ninja]

Did you see the map? That's a lot of phone calls lol!

So far, I've called my control tower anytime I'm in the area, they do appreciate it. They're pretty easy to work with if you show the courtesy

 

[jhallgren22]

I agree that its alot of phone calls, I have a few heliports that my grandparents house intersects with. Luckily the main tower at the airport said they would put a note out to the heliport, and they also mentioned that its not very active there. (so inactive I had no idea it was there)

 

[Pedals2Paddles]

Those circles do not indicate "controlled airspace". Those are just 5 mile radius rings around airports, representing where the FAA wants you to call the airport first. It has nothing to do with airspace, restrictions, prohibitions, allowed vs not allowed, etc.

The location where you're at right there is not any kind of restricted or controlled airspace until you reach 4,000ft.

 

[jhallgren22]

So how does that go, is it only "legal" to fly when you have contacted the control tower? Im only asking since it is something pointed out on the registration card.

 

[Rusty Jones]

holy cow!!

How many are heliports, and how many actually have a runway??

 

[Nimbus Ninja]

holy cow!!

How many are heliports, and how many actually have a runway??

I have no idea, I don't usually go out here, lots of tourist heliports that fly near Disney. I fly more south, not as busy

 

[Pedals2Paddles]

So how does that go, is it only "legal" to fly when you have contacted the control tower? Im only asking since it is something pointed out on the registration card.

Per the FAA's interpretation for Section 336's special rule for model aircraft, you are required to advise the airport operator and/or tower and they must give you the ok. They also explain that if the airport says no, and you fly anyway, the FAA would consider the flight a danger to the national airspace and therefore illegal.

Now, what's hypocritical, knee jerk, and foolish about this rule... that balloon has no such requirement. That is class G airspace, where no permission or communication is required at all for any other normal aircraft up to 4,000ft. But a 2lb plastic toy flying at 100ft over a backyard, that's a dangerous rogue aircraft...

 

[EyeWingsuit]

Per the FAA's interpretation for Section 336's special rule for model aircraft, you are required to advise the airport operator and/or tower and they must give you the ok. They also explain that if the airport says no, and you fly anyway, the FAA would consider the flight a danger to the national airspace and therefore illegal.

Now, what's hypocritical, knee jerk, and foolish about this rule... that balloon has no such requirement. That is class G airspace, where no permission or communication is required at all for any other normal aircraft up to 4,000ft. But a 2lb plastic toy flying at 100ft over a backyard, that's a dangerous rogue aircraft...

A balloon pilot is just that; a pilot. He is in contact with the tower (if there is one), knows how to file (if necessary) and is aware of the flyways. Drone operators are not. They are not trained, and based on the many posts (particularly in the various DJI fora) in many web forums, drone operators scoff at the requirements for putting flying objects into the NAS where they can drop on people or property, strike other aircraft, or be sucked into a jet engine on approach. The balloon pilot "knows things" that the vast vast majority of UAV operators do not. Hopefully 107 will clear a fair amount of this messiness up. I'll wager it really won't, not for a long while.

Class G. How do you know there isn't a sport pilot training there? How do you know that a skydiving team doesn't have a demo in that area? Lots of "how do you knows...." in there.

It's very rare that a tower will tell a drone operator he can't fly. But they do want/need to be informed so they can inform others if necessary.
I agree, it *feels* very silly that there are requirements in some airspace, but also am painfully aware of the consequences in the event of an incident.

The other side of it is that the FAA may be "knee-jerking" (and they are), but they also have a lot of misinformation, fears, and pressure from legislators that are merely reading the news and hearing from stupid constituents, like the kind of person who shoots drones out of the sky.

 

[Nimbus Ninja]

A balloon pilot is just that; a pilot. He is in contact with the tower (if there is one), knows how to file (if necessary) and is aware of the flyways. Drone operators are not. They are not trained, and based on the many posts (particularly in the various DJI fora) in many web forums, drone operators scoff at the requirements for putting flying objects into the NAS where they can drop on people or property, strike other aircraft, or be sucked into a jet engine on approach. The balloon pilot "knows things" that the vast vast majority of UAV operators do not. Hopefully 107 will clear a fair amount of this messiness up. I'll wager it really won't, not for a long while.

Class G. How do you know there isn't a sport pilot training there? How do you know that a skydiving team doesn't have a demo in that area? Lots of "how do you knows...." in there.

It's very rare that a tower will tell a drone operator he can't fly. But they do want/need to be informed so they can inform others if necessary.
I agree, it *feels* very silly that there are requirements in some airspace, but also am painfully aware of the consequences in the event of an incident.

The other side of it is that the FAA may be "knee-jerking" (and they are), but they also have a lot of misinformation, fears, and pressure from legislators that are merely reading the news and hearing from stupid constituents, like the kind of person who shoots drones out of the sky.

Great point!

 

[Pedals2Paddles]

A balloon pilot is just that; a pilot. He is in contact with the tower (if there is one), knows how to file (if necessary) and is aware of the flyways. Drone operators are not. They are not trained, and based on the many posts (particularly in the various DJI fora) in many web forums, drone operators scoff at the requirements for putting flying objects into the NAS where they can drop on people or property, strike other aircraft, or be sucked into a jet engine on approach. The balloon pilot "knows things" that the vast vast majority of UAV operators do not. Hopefully 107 will clear a fair amount of this messiness up. I'll wager it really won't, not for a long while.

Class G. How do you know there isn't a sport pilot training there? How do you know that a skydiving team doesn't have a demo in that area? Lots of "how do you knows...." in there.

It's very rare that a tower will tell a drone operator he can't fly. But they do want/need to be informed so they can inform others if necessary.
I agree, it *feels* very silly that there are requirements in some airspace, but also am painfully aware of the consequences in the event of an incident.

The other side of it is that the FAA may be "knee-jerking" (and they are), but they also have a lot of misinformation, fears, and pressure from legislators that are merely reading the news and hearing from stupid constituents, like the kind of person who shoots drones out of the sky.

You're not telling me anything I don't already know. The point I'm making is that the balloon pilot, or any other pilot of any other aircraft is not required to communicate with or ask permission from anyone anywhere at that location. But the guy with a 2lb plastic toy does. It's absurd and accomplishes nothing for anyone. It's not making anything safer, it's not preventing collisions, and it's not protecting anyone.

 

[EyeWingsuit]

Perhaps this sums up the FAA's position better; The man in the balloon is trained and has demonstrated through testing, that he knows what he's doing in the NAS. The drone operator hasn't.
Toss in the exceptionally few balloon (or other sport pilot) incidents over the years laid over the exceptionally numerous UAV incidents in the past year, the FAA's position has merit (in their eyes).

Yes, it's somewhat silly. And almost entirely the fault of our community.

 

[Jubalr]

Yep, beat me to it Douglas. That the balloon pilots are licensed pilots is the biggest reason. I don't know if they still do, but balloon pilots will often be equipped with transponders, and most of the time a walkie allowing them to talk to tower/control and planes in the area as needed. And they are supposed to be treated the same as the kid whose parents just dropped by Best Buy to buy him a drone? I don't think so, and hope never so.

 

[EyeWingsuit]

Yep, beat me to it Douglas. That the balloon pilots are licensed pilots is the biggest reason. I don't know if they still do, but balloon pilots will often be equipped with transponders, and most of the time a walkie allowing them to talk to tower/control and planes in the area as needed. And they are supposed to be treated the same as the kid whose parents just dropped by Best Buy to buy him a drone? I don't think so, and hope never so.

Even if they don't have a transponder, the Watchman radar system can see them. Watchman can even see small groups of skydivers from 15 miles away. Propane tanks made of steel (or titanium, if the operator has a high-class operation) are easily seen. However, sUAS are not. Today, I judged a world-record wingsuit jump and was in constant contact with the tower, aircraft, and an on-site inspector. ATC could not see the skydiver as he exited from 36,500, but they could see him upon deployment. There is little metal on a skydiving rig; it's possible radar was seeing the very small oxygen tank he was wearing. This encourages me, that perhaps a short-range transponder system may someday be a useful part of automated "DTC." But for now...

 

[Cosber]

I don't get the benefit of contacting the tower. Once they say you're ok to fly, do they warn pilots that there maybe a drone in the vicinity? Will they reroute traffic? You don't call them again when you're done flying so they can give an all clear. What if an emergency occurs during your flight? They can't contact you. Just don't see the point.

 

[Mr_Chris]

Just to add a tiny bit of experience, when flying with a balloon operator in Ottawa, at least this outfit had not only pilots, but the balloons had radios and were constantly online with the local tower(s) though talking to them perhaps 3 times in the 90 minutes or so we were airborne.

He also told me they are only allowed to fly at altitudes of 500 to 1500 (memory disclaimer!) feet (not meters?) for normal flight and they call in and get permission to take off and land etc. Another thing I remember was the way they ride the winds at lower altitudes but change course by climbing into higher air currents to change direction, which was cool.