mRobotics M8N GPS

[Aginzu]

... If you can't swing the mRobotics GPS, at least buy this one for just $11 more than your Chinese knockoff:
Ublox NEO-M8 GPS breakout board

I didn't realize that this one was so inexpensive, so yes it does make more sense. However I guess that I would be better off to go with MRobotics if they will have them in stock if and when I need the GPS upgrade. At this time I don't even know if I will need it because the weather has been so bad since I got my Solo that I don't know how well the stock GPS works. Although, using the logic in your reply, should I trust $700 worth of equipment to the stock GPS that is known to be unreliable at times?

 

[User Name]

Although, using the logic in your reply, should I trust $700 worth of equipment to the stock GPS that is known to be unreliable at times?

The stock GPS isn't unreliable, I've flown two solos with it and never once lost GPS while in flight or had a glitch that I would attribute to a bad GPS position fix. I also tested the stock 7N against an el cheapo M8N and a Drotek M8N. The cheap M8N picked up more satellites, but the position fix drifted more than the stock GPS. The Drotek picked up more satellites and drifted less.

So, I wouldn't say the stock GPS bad, it's just a previous generation model, probably state of the art when the Solo was first being designed, but outdated by today's standards. The advantage of the M8Ns are that they can pick up multiple satellite systems, typically US GPS and Russian GLONASS. But even across models, higher quality units typically perform better.

So, yes, I would definitely trust my $700 worth of drone and camera to the stock GPS over a cheap no-name brand unit. I'd trust it to a Drotek over stock, and an mRobotics over the Drotek! I'm not sure how much better the mRo is over the Drotek, I have both but haven't compared since updating the Drotek to the latest uBlox firmware which supports 3 systems, which the mRo unit came already updated and configured.

 

[Pedals2Paddles]

The original GPS ("Rev A") was very seriously flawed in its design. It isn't a matter of it just being old technology. The technology it has isn't actually old or out-dated at all. It lacked hardware required for filtering and enhancing the GPS signals, which went against every basic design standard for a GPS. It also had sub-part shielding (the copper foil) from the known RF interference from the GoPro and other components nearby. Both of these issues were pointed out by the designers and engineers building the Solo. They all wanted to do it differently, and not use a known sub part piece of junk GPS. But the CEO of 3DR (Chris Anderson) refused to allow them to change it because he wanted to rush and not spend more money on it.

The "Rev B" 3DR GPS is the same as the A model, but has the filtering hardware that it the A model lacked. And it showed immediately what a difference it made. It works a whole lot better than the A model. It isn't perfect. But it is leaps and bounds better. It is still GPS only, no GLONASS or other constellations. That stuff is not necessary. It's nice, but certainly not needed for a solid and reliable position lock. Sadly, this revised GPS came to late and too little. It wasn't part of the initial production, and very few are available as a replacement part.

This is all documented and explained by numerous developers and engineers on the various Solo FB groups. It is those engineers and designers that came up with the alternatives after they were laid off from 3DR. They provided guidance on using the cheap M8N units, and were also working on plug and play replacement options on their own time. Jori Munoz, who made this plug and play mRo GPS is one of them. His design takes care of all those issues that CA refused to pay for in the Solo's design and then some. And it adds the other constellations. It is the GPS that the Solo should have had from the day it was first built.

 

[User Name]

The original GPS ("Rev A") was very seriously flawed in its design.

Thanks for the info. It begs the question, though, who designed the rev. A board if not the original developers/engineers of the Solo? Since it's obviously not an off-the-shelf part, it was designed by someone, and so why was this filtering/enhancing circuitry left off?

When people initially started replacing the stock with the cheap M8Ns, I thought I remember reading that at least one of the original solo engineers kept saying that the stock unit was better, that there was nothing wrong with it, that it was more than just sat count and HDOP, that there were timing issues, etc. What happened between then and now, when all the engineers seem to admit that the stock GPS was flawed and some have come up with replacements?

In any case, I stand by my assessment that in terms of overall reliability, I'd rank the mRo unit first, closely followed by Drotek units, then the stock Solo GPS and then cheap $20 ebay specials.

 

[Pedals2Paddles]

The same developers and engineers designed it. The decision to make it cut down and omit critical hardware was not their decision. It was Chris Anderson's decision for the purpose of saving money and time. They were doing what they were told, and under protest.

What transpired that you're thinking of is close but not quite. Phillip had two points to make about the matter. One was that the cheap M8Ns had issues and he didn't recommend them. There were people who had issues with them, but most were successful. His point was that at some inconvenient time and place, it may bite you in the ass in mid air. Regarding the stock GPS... People were saying the the Neo 7 GPS was crappy and the M8N was superior to it. Mainly because they didn't understand it and the components that go with it. His point was that there is nothing wrong or impractical with the Neo 7 GPS that was on the 3DR original GPS board. It was "other things" about it's implementation that were bad, which caused the whole package to be crap. Basically it's what I was saying before about it not being inferior or old technology. It was just implemented poorly. The filtering hardware that was left off is not part of the GPS itself. Those things go along with the GPS on the board and are part of the product's design. Not the GPS itself.

Your assessment of GPS options I totally agree with. I leave the $20 eBay specials last not because they won't work better than the stock. They actually probably will. But their reliability is extremely questionable and not safe for something that flies.

 

[speatuk]

Back in stock as of now 35 available
Of course I purchased one b4 I told you all.

Happy buying guys.
Oh and be quick.
These things sell like hot cakes.

-Steveooo



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Aginzu]

It stopped raining so I finally had a chance to test fly my new Solo. It apparently has the Rev. B GPS. I was flying in my front yard with a relatively clear look at the sky, although there are some tall trees around the nearby area limiting the sky view angle to about 90 degrees. It locked on to 8 satellites in less than one minute and finally settled in with 11. I flew it a couple of times and it never lost GPS lock, however when it was on the ground between flights, the Solo App would periodically say "Searching for GPS" even though the controller indicator was white and showing 11 satellites. It only produced the message when Solo was on the ground, not when in flight but I'm a little concerned that the GPS connection might be glitching. Is this normal?

By the way, I love the way it flew... extremely stable and easy to fly.

 

[andrew.baker.142]

I get that message frequently when disarming the quad I don't think it is valid message, so I just ignore it.

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[Frank Foster]

I've asked this same question, other places on this forum. Does Solo periodically check GPS condition? or, is it actually loosing a lock? It concerns me too.

 

[Pedals2Paddles]

There is a lot of decision making that goes into declaring it has or doesn't have a good GPS lock. The number of satellites is the least of this factors. It is looking at sats, HDOP, movement of the fix compared to the accelerometers, etc etc. The 3DR GPS will lose it if you place yourself in the way, which is often what causes it on the ground.

 

[User Name]

There is a lot of decision making that goes into declaring it has or doesn't have a good GPS lock. The number of satellites is the least of this factors. It is looking at sats, HDOP, movement of the fix compared to the accelerometers, etc etc.

I would disagree re: the number of satellites in so far as all those other things depend on... the number of satellites. Not just the number, but the positions of those satellites in the sky, but in general, the more satellites you have distributed over the sky, the better your fix will be. Yes, the flight controller doesn't say "oh, you have 6 satellites, you're good to go...". It depends on all those other things, as you say.

I just think it could give the wrong impression to state that the number of satellites is the least important of factors. All those other factors start with a good number of satellites.

 

[Pedals2Paddles]

Not really. You can have just as solid and accurate a lock with 6 or 7 sats as you can with 11 or 14. And you can have a crap lock with 12 sats. People say "Well I had X number of satellites, but it still said I lost GPS", and the point is that is very very little to do with it.

 

[User Name]

Not really. You can have just as solid and accurate a lock with 6 or 7 sats as you can with 11 or 14. And you can have a crap lock with 12 sats. People say "Well I had X number of satellites, but it still said I lost GPS", and the point is that is very very little to do with it.

I continue to disagree with the amount of stress you're placing on the claimed unimportance of the number of satellites. It's like saying how far your car can drive has very, very little to do with how much gas is in the tank, it's far more important how well your engine is running. Well, sure, but at the end of the day, your engine isn't going to run AT ALL without gas.

Yes, you *can* have a lousy fix with a greater number of satellites than you can have at another time with fewer. But *in general* the more sensitive a receiver, the more satellites you'll pick up at a further distance - meaning spread out across the sky, and THAT is what will give you the other things you rightfully state will determine the quality of the fix.

I'll agree that one should consider things like HDOP/PDOP as the ultimate determiner of GPS fix quality, over simply the number of satellites. But in my experience, I've only seen good HDOP numbers when I've had 12+ satellites.

All the factors go hand in hand. None in isolation can make up for a lack of the others.

 

[Frank Foster]

Just for those that want more information about MRO and their products.
[mRo] The new DIY store

 

[Pedals2Paddles]

I think you're reading too much into what I'm saying, because the part you're agreeing with me on is my only point. Simply having X satellites in view is not the driving factor and cannot be used as the measurement of a good lock. Just like having a full tank of gas in your car doesn't mean you're going to get where you're going. It doesn't mean that gas is of good quality, not contaminated, the fuel injectors aren't full of crud, and the pump isn't leaking.

 

[speatuk]

Received the Mro gps a few days ago. Not had time to fit it until today.
Took me all of 10 minutes.
Until today, I did not know I had a rev 1 board.
The gps on rev 1 board I found to be ok. Never had any problems. Just a few minutes to lock on then off you go. The best I had seen was 12 sats and a HDOP of 1.2.

Now today it all changed. Took about 4-5 minutes for first lock on. 14 sats HDOP of 1.1.
Off to the field I go.
In the middle of the field 250 yards from anything.
Turned on solo turned on controller. Fired up solex locked on with 19 sats HDOP of 0.6.
As soon as solex was fired up the ready to fly chirp and display was there.
Pretty happy with that.

Thanks for the info guys I wouldn't have upgraded to this gps without all the extremely valuable information I read here.

Thanks again.

So to add,
"This upgraded gps works straight out of the box and is a perfect fit. Extremely easy to fit. On a scale of 1 to 10. (10 being hard) I would put it a 2. Worth every penny."


Happy flying everyone.

-Steve


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Aginzu]

Just curious. Since Solo was working fine with your original board and you didn't have any problems, what made you decide on the upgrade? I'm sort-of in the same boat; it works fine, locks on in less than 1 minute, and I'm wondering if it's worth upgrading.

 

[speatuk]

Well I figured the stock gps only uses USA gps, nothing wrong with that and I'm getting up to 12 sats. Cool.
The upgrade uses the GLONASS (Russian gps) and has the ability to use the Galileo gps when it's fully up and running.
A greater lock with more sats can only, in my mind, increase the accuracy of the gps. Seeing as I was not having any problems before the upgrade it could only be better. With better accuracy.

I know this drone is so cheap at the moment it's falling off the shelves, but it's still a $1000 drone. With applications only a few other off the shelf drones can supply.

$80 is a small amount of money on my investment.

I love it and it makes me smile so much.

So with all the write ups I have read. I decided to purchase the Mro gps and see for my self.

Hell if there was no difference at least I have a spare gps for when I do the inevitable and smash it to bits lol.

But if anything. It has increased my confidence as everywhere you read or see is relayed to fly offs due to gps dropping.

So I think it's a bit of you pays your money you takes your choice.

I feel happier, and to me that's all that matters.


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[speatuk]

Well I figured the stock gps only uses USA gps, nothing wrong with that and I'm getting up to 12 sats. Cool.
The upgrade uses the GLONASS (Russian gps) and has the ability to use the Galileo gps when it's fully up and running.
A greater lock with more sats can only, in my mind, increase the accuracy of the gps. Seeing as I was not having any problems before the upgrade it could only be better. With better accuracy.

I know this drone is so cheap at the moment it's falling off the shelves, but it's still a $1000 drone. With applications only a few other off the shelf drones can supply.

$80 is a small amount of money on my investment.

I love it and it makes me smile so much.

So with all the write ups I have read. I decided to purchase the Mro gps and see for my self.

Hell if there was no difference at least I have a spare gps for when I do the inevitable and smash it to bits lol.

But if anything. It has increased my confidence as everywhere you read or see is relayed to fly offs due to gps dropping.

So I think it's a bit of you pays your money you takes your choice.

I feel happier, and to me that's all that matters.


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Sorry "as well as the USA gps" please add this to the top of my post.

Ttfn.


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[Deleted member 6872]

Yet another long-time "hangaround" at this forum comes out of the dark winter-nights far up in the northern hemisphere... Just want to say this is a great forum that provides all the extra knowledge, tips and tricks that keeps Solo - in my opinion - staying best of breed among quads... And even more so after I installed the M8N...! My goodness, what a difference...! And what a speed shipment from Jordi & Co!! I order my new GPS wonder at lunchtime last Friday, and Fedex here in Norway delivered by lunch on Monday... Beat that!!