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Don't Let Law Enforcement Bully You - NYS Incident

Discussion in 'News' started by LuvMyTJ, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. LuvMyTJ

    LuvMyTJ ADMINISTRATOR
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    This is a neighboring county local to me and I am shocked and appalled at the treatment given to law abiding US citizens by the Wayne County & NY State Troopers. The town of Lyons had given up it's local police force a few years ago. This is a typical tactic of lying to the person to get what they want illegal or not. This county has a reputation for things like this happening. It is rural.

    [*these are not my videos, I only reposted them]



     
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  2. pyrate

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    I don't know, I think I can see problems on both sides here
    if the guy was a 107 holder he had legal right to fly above property
    If he was violating privacy there are privacy issues that could have been at play
    in the 107 rules seems one of the questions was do you need to present your certificate if asked by law enforcement and I think the answer was yes
     
  3. Don H.

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    Sorry but they got what they deserved. They were there for nothing more than to cause problems. Yes it was intimidation by the Marshall farms security and the LEOs. However, if they have received threats in the past then I think they had every right to do what they did. You don't know what kind of nut jobs are out there and what they are capable of.
    I think it was blatantly obvious these guys were looking for trouble.
    Just because you have a 107 cert doesn't give you the right to fly over private property and film. As far as any FAR enforcement goes, any law enforcement officer can enforce the rules set by the FAA. That used to be one of the test questions when taking the private pilot exam.
     
  4. Earpo44

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    Can't wait for the updates, please post!
     
  5. LuvMyTJ

    LuvMyTJ ADMINISTRATOR
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    First off, the LEO's didn't know anything about drone laws, they even admitted that even though the FAA issued policies on how to handle drone interactions - https://www.faa.gov/uas/resources/law_enforcement/media/FAA_UAS-PO_LEA_Guidance.pdf
    They must have been to busy doing nothing to keep up with technology (Wayne County has this reputation), and if they have no clue, why stop them in the first place? Because some citizen said "I don't like drones"?
    Also, they never asked about a 107 (I assume they have one as they do these types of flights around the country). Even with a 107, as long as they didn't fly over people not involved they are OK to do so, correct? Maybe they stayed in the right of way by the roadway and flew... we weren't there, we don't know. Should I be concerned every time I leave the local park that I may be stopped for flying, maybe they need to stop the guy playing ball with his kid, that bat could be used as a weapon. If I called the police saying someone who was playing ball in the park needs to be stopped and I want to know who they are do you think they would do it for me, or laugh at me... I am guessing the latter. These LOE's went above & beyond to please the farm that called them for no reason and they were stopped for no legal reason. NYS requires specific reasons to stop someone and they can't say "we aren't sure there is any law broken but lets see what we can come up with". C'mon man, you know that is not right.
     
  6. pyrate

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    the faa guidelines do speak to privacy infractions.
    these folks were clearly spying and I think at minimum there could be grey area privacy issues involved
    I don't disagree the cops were not well versed, but they were investigating a complaint. they have to, and the guys in the truck made it more confrontational than they had to.
    the video was also edited as stated we don't know what went on with the parts they cut out.
    All I am saying is if the guys were truly not doing anything wrong this did not need to be escalated
    just my opinion
     
  7. Don H.

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    If Marshall Farms is sourcing animals for experimentation then I can see why they might want security. I don't think there's a lot of us that like the idea of medical experimentation on animals.
    I can imagine that they get threats against them. I wouldn't hesitate to call law enforcement if I were them.
     
  8. Maddog

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    As an animal lover I'll make this comment: I'm familiar with Marshall Farms and what they do is despicable. They raise primarily Beagles for product testing- they are used basically as lab rats. They never see the light of day and are exposed to all kinds of toxic chemicals until they die.

    Do you know of any other animal breeders who need a large security force? Marshall Farms is infamous for trying to suppress any information about their operation.

    As a retired detective with over 30 years experience I made these observations:

    Clearly Marshall Farms security called the police because they saw a drone observing their property. (Perfectly legal but they didn't like it).

    The police have done this for Marshall Farms before.

    The state trooper only wanted to identify the occupants of the van. The occupants committed no crimes and the trooper did not have probable cause to arrest anybody. He could argue that he had reasonable suspicion that the drone flight was suspicious given the current state of terrorist activity nowadays. But it was obvious to me he knew the drone was observing Marshall Farms, not planning a terrorist act.

    Given those facts, the officer can ask for ID. If the people refuse, he can legally do nothing. He can detain for a reasonable length of time to determine if a crime had been committed. (In Arizona, that time has been determined to be 20 minutes buy the Supreme Court).

    If he can't determine a crime was committed he must release the people. They were stopped for suspicious activity, not a traffic violation, therefore the driver is not required to produce a drivers license.

    Clearly, these people were arrested for "contempt of cop". Meaning the officer arrested them only because they didn't comply with his illegal demands.

    This is the most blatant and unprofessional case of police misconduct and false arrest I have ever seen. To do this while being recorded defies any sensibility. I gave up counting how many times the trooper lied when claiming the people would be committing a crime if they did not identify themselves.

    They did nothing wrong and that us why they were released without being charged with anything.

    Personally, I see this as a textbook case of false arrest (civil) and violation of civil rights (a federal crime).

    @Don H. - I have to disagree that they got what they deserved. These people are members of yet another organization attempting to shed light on Marshall Farms- I don't consider that "trouble making".

    Even if they were just harassing Marshall Farms, that does not justify police misconduct.

    Also, the Federal Air Regulations can only be enforced by federal LEO's. Local officers can assist the Fed's but they can't arrest on their own.

    I don't recall any of the officers asking for his 107- maybe I missed that.
     
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  9. Maddog

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    I didn't hear any mention made by the officers that the people in the van had made threats- did you?
     
  10. Don H.

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    Bummer my rant back got trunked. Anyway, for the last discussion. So, yes local law enforcement can enforce the FARs.

    Check this out. From the FAA website.

    Law Enforcement engagement with Suspected Unauthorized UAS Operations

    While the FAA retains the responsibility for enforcing Federal Aviation Regulations, including those applicable to the use of UAS, the agency also recognizes that state and local Law Enforcement Agencies (LEAs) are often in the best position to deter, detect, immediately investigate, and, as appropriate, pursue enforcement actions to stop unauthorized or unsafe UAS operations.
     
  11. Don H.

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    @Maddog,

    Was that actually an arrest? Yes they were detained but doesn't an arrest include a record and possible jail time?
    I've always wondered about that.
     
  12. Jubalr

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    Don, you are misreading the link you provided and MadDog is correct. As a law enforcement officer/pilot that works with Federal Agents, I can assure you that we can not enforce (arrest) any FAA, FCC or any other federal laws. If we see something endangering the public, that would fall under local jurisdiction/laws anyway. But that is not what was happening here. the FAA's point above is that local officers would be the first to see/respond to a situation that needed referred to a Federal Agency for prosecution.
     
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  13. Don H.

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    Thanks Jubair

    I guess rules have changed since I got my pilots licence. That
    was over 20 years ago. It sticks in my mind because I remember questioning the answer on a test since I got it wrong. I didn't think law enforcement could. The instructor told me otherwise.
     
  14. LuvMyTJ

    LuvMyTJ ADMINISTRATOR
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    UPDATE: saw this today...

    From: troopers.sm.h.internal.affairs [mailto:iaffairs@troopers.ny.gov]
    Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 11:20 AM Subject: RE: Disgraceful Good Morning,

    Thank you for your e-mail regarding the YouTube video published January 8, 2016. We have received numerous e-mails regarding the video and are looking into the matter to ensure that our Trooper handled the matter professionally and appropriately.

    New York State Police Professional Standards Bureau
    1220 Washington Avenue Albany, New York
     
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  15. Jubalr

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    Interesting. Got my PPL about 20 years ago as well. I don't remember it ever coming up.
    When the trooper made the traffic stop, that is where his troubles began. You need more than a 3rd party complaint of a misdemeanor to make a vehicle stop. Otherwise you could have some real fun with someone you don't like by telling a cop " Hey, I saw Joe Blow run a stop sign yesterday. You should go stop him".
     
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  16. Don H.

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    I wonder if that's a regional rule? I've called in on a suspect DUI on the freeway early am and sure enough they responded. Or is that other than a misdemeanor?
     
  17. Jubalr

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    That would be a felony in most circumstances, though some states it's a misdemeanor if it's a first offense. But the officer can't make an arrest on what you saw. He would try to locate the vehicle then observe for him/her self to determine there is PC for a stop.
     
  18. Don H.

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    This is driving me nuts..I know that was on one of the tests in my ground school class. I can't find any of my old tests.
    I'm starting to question my own memory. I remember thinking that it was bizarre and I got it wrong on one of the tests.
     
  19. Don H.

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    I have no dea if anyone was arrested. I do know they were stopped though.

    On another note, did you see my question above to Maddog?
    On the case that started this thread, the people filming were detained. Were they arrested or detained?
     
  20. Jubalr

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    The video said that 2 people were cuffed and taken to the PD. I call that an arrest but they say no charges were filed. Sounds like both sides backed down and agreed to walk away.